Still mind-boggling that the US has no centralized federal ID card system, like pretty much every other darn country has.
US Politics
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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Do you have a source for this?
It seems like a horrible risk/reward ratio to try to vote using someone else's name.
You run the risk of them not even being registered where you thought, they could have already voted which would cause a lot of trouble for the fraud, etc.
Plus you would need hundreds or thousands to shift the votes in a meaningful way. Just seems far too likely to get caught for such a low payout per attempt that it wouldn't be worth it. Maybe in some local elections with extremely low turnout?
The US is not like most countries. A lot of stuff is done at the State level. Driving licences for instance are all issued by States. So every time you change State you have to get a new DL, very annoying.
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No specific source, but personal experience. Quite common all across India. Should be lots of data available in Google. It's quite common to turn up at a booth only to find your vote has already been made.
Yes you need scale to swing it, and in normal situation where we have a clear winner, it would not really matter, but still in a key swing case (bush vs gore in Florida) where 500+ votes made a difference, it'd be something else.
From a risk view, you have a a critical to democracy system that is so easy to defraud. I find it weird that it is ignored 'because it hasn't happened yet'. Once it happens and such a fraud comes to light, there would be no alternative than to redo the polls but with IDs this time.
@oneniltothearsenal it mostly occurs due to corruption. Assume just an hour before closing time, someone pays off an official and gets list of people who have not voted. It is easy to place fraudulent votes...and this would never even come to light. Also once a person has voted, their thumbs are marked with an indelible ink, so they cannot cote again....I presume this is also not there in US?
From a quick google it seems that India has voting machines that are specifically vulnerable to fraud.
Whereas it looks like the US is not at all easy to defraud as the myths indicate:
- The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.
- A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
It can't happen like that because there are controls at polling stations. Several people are doing each stage of the voting process. This type of 'fraud' is made up by those intent on creating onerous voter ID laws.
Mandatory Voter ID wouldn't prevent that though
we should really be able to vote online
If there are ways to ensure non-citizens don't vote in federal elections then there should be no problems with conventional IDs.
Way too many security risks there. As a cyber security guy , the perception around online voting is that it's just not secure.
You should be able to use ANY form of ID to vote. If that ID is accepted anywhere, it should be accepted to cast a ballot. Voting shouldn't be hard for people who are eligible to do it and I still don't understand why Americans just sit idly by and allow politicians to chose their voters and also stymie the voting process for a block of people. It's wrong...plain and simple.
It would also be a great way to delegitimize the outcome, especially after the Russians have been snooping around and tried to hack 21 states this past cycle.
Trouble with this is the only IDs accepted anywhere are drivers licenses and passports - both official government IDs. That is more or less the Republican position.
What about student ID's? Should these be accepted to cast a ballot?
Correct. Even if you show data where the actual process was clean and free from any cyber attacks, the second someone who loses throws doubt about the voting process, it's all downhill from there.
The trouble the US has (as someone previously pointed out) is that there is no national ID card. So a person using a 3rd party ID such as a student ID card would have to have that ID checked to ensure it wasn't a fake prior to voting.
I'd agree with that. I think the data shows that voter fraud is a red herring.
There still have to be some sort of standard as to what is and isn't an acceptable form of ID.
It's something where there should be no such thing like "States Rights". One voting process for the entire country and that should be it. Student ID's can be standardized with a minor change based on your college. Driver's permits, passports and a national ID that allows you to vote anywhere and not issue your ballot as provisional just because you're not home.
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There is definitely a case to be made for a national ID card, which would help in more areas in just elections. The fundamental problem right now is that non-US citizens can vote in certain instances in local and state level elections (but not in federal elections). The solution to this would be a national ID card for everyone that indicates whether or not a person is a citizen and is backed up by full biometrics and other data that is instantly cross referenced when you swipe to enter a polling station.
I just paid my taxes online. Why can't we figure this out?
Exactly this.
I do my tax reports online, do my banking online and manage my stocks online - why the feck can't I vote online.
They need to make voting a little easier for sure. Online would be awesome but security would be an issue plus a lot of poorer people might not have access to PCs. Electronic voting booths that are available for weeks in select locations would be helpful.
We should be able to in the future....when Russian hackers are no longer able to penetrate state level voting systems as they just did.
Wasn't those systems compromised ridiculously insecure, and nowhere near the level of online stock brokers \ online banks?
In a few years iris identification will be the standard for online identification I reckon, and that isn't easily hacked.
It really wouldn't be that difficult TBH. You could send out a secure code to every voter by mail weeks in advance.
Isn't the problem with online voting that there'd be no real proof you've voted? Obviously it's not foolproof but when I turn up at a polling booth I can verify that I the individual am there, and that I am voting for my candidate without being coerced into making a certain choice by someone else.
Some of them were definitely not secure. The problem is that various states are working off different security standards and likely don't have the technical expertise and funding to get their systems to a level where they should be. It obviously also doesn't help to have a President who is in denial about Russian hacking because he thinks it would undermine the legitimacy of his win. There needs to be a proper, secure standard across all states, at which point online voting may be a possibility.
True but here's the thing..no one cares about your taxes. Everyone cares about elections! Also, voter registration databases need to be secured to such a level that they need to be scanned frequently to monitor for fraudulent and abnormal activity. It sounds simple enough but trust me when I tell you that the HUMAN factor here is the major sticking point. We have the technology but how do election officials prove the integrity of the data and process when you have politicians and special interests invested in making sure people don't have access to the voting booth?
Who is this gorgeous guest on CNN on Situation Room with Blitzer?
Trump privately trashes GOP candidate after his own endorsement fails to boost him
https://shareblue.com/trump-trashes-gop-candidate-rick-saccade-endorsement-fails/
https://shareblue.com/trump-trashes-gop-candidate-rick-saccade-endorsement-fails/
That's a decent argument. A lot easier to vote against your family's wishes when it has to be done in a private booth, rather than it being something that can be done at home with them watching over you.
Did you find out. There are several very intelligent ladies that brighten my day on CNN.
I haven't yet found out who she is. She was on Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer in the studio. It was her, Philip Mudd and Kaitlan Collins. She was sitting in the middle. They were talking about Stormi Daniels and Trump's lawyer. And also North Korea. She is literally the most gorgeous woman I've seen on telly in my life. Jaw dropping beauty. Yesterday's episode - Friday, 9th March.
Any idea where we can watch full episodes of Situation Room?
Ana Navarro
@Nikhil - You must be referring to either Elise Labbot or Barbara Starr
Alright, it was Sabrina Siddiqui. I just saw the episode. She's a massive cutie. I have a huge thing for women like her.