Although I am not sure about that, I am thinking if it's not RvP, there would have been someone anyway who helped us win it. SAF knows how to win things most of the time. His pick of RvP is a genius stroke anyway.
Unpopular Opinions Thread
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Rafael is one of my favourite players really. I still think he's class, whether he's leaving or not.
I really think Giggs would be a disaster. He has no experience whatsoever and he shares the '4-4-2, get it in the box' ethos that we're moving away from. Add to that the fact that he's not very charismatic and I think the whole thing is a recipe for disaster. Fantastic footballer and club legend but he's no Guardiola (imo).
Agreed. He had done a brilliant job for us and should have deserved more credit than whats given on here. Never a liability and would have so much still to offer. Should have been kept!
Rooney scored 27 league goals the previous season (which is more than RVP scored for us in the 12/13 season), RVP also had a dry spell (2 in 9) we won 7 of those games,we finished with 89 points(would have been 91 if we didn't collapse at the Hawthorns) and city finished with 78 points (11 points difference).
Obviously this is just a theory and I'm not saying it would've been the case with absolute conviction, I'm also not trying to downplay RVP's contributions that season (one of the greatest performances of all time in a United shirt).
We should have signed Di Maria this Summer window rather than last, he would've taken the league by storm now that we've got a spine and less shuffling about.
The sad thing is, he's being sold without even having contributed in any sort of meaningful way. If he's advised to stay, he might shine this coming season. United has become a less friendly place for players nowadays.
Not sure if this is really unpopular or not, but in my opinion Rooney has quite easily been our worst player in pre-season so far and even if he gets 20+goals I feel like his regressing all round play will outweigh the effect that his goal tally will have, even if substantial. Yeah Strikers are meant to score goals but when they ruin/slow down our attacks on a consistent basis, the question is; would we benefit from a striker who has attributes more suited to fast build up play at perhaps the cost of less individual goals but on the whole more goals as a result from their link up play(directly or indirectly) with others. One doesn't even necessarily have to affect the other. Most top teams these days have strikers who are capable of both substantial goal tallies whilst also benefiting the team greatly from the other aspects of their game. (Ie. pre Moyes RVP, Aguero, Costa, Suarez, Benzema, Lewandowski, Ibra, Sanchez- not a striker but plays a similar role). Three of these players are the main man for our respective premier league rivals excluding liverpool. I believe it is a must that we acquire someone who will do the same for us to become a real force in europe again.
To finish off, I believe Rooney is certainly capable of hitting a high goal tally, however overall will do more damage to the team than good. Just watch his individual highlights over the last 3 games, not to mention his performances for the last run of games last season. His first touch has become conference level and that's a compliment. He tends to spend way too much time on the ball before making his mind up, whilst also completely losing his ability to beat a man. He couldn't dribble a single San Jose player and he actually attempted quite a few take ons (I think 0 successful out of 4 or 5?-feel free to confirm) that game before anyone says otherwise. The players I mentioned also don't tend to go through such large periods of incosistency which is a big problem as he is the only player to be played by LVG even when in terrible form. Yeah, he's captain but I don't see the harm in benching him every now and then to let him know such performances won't carry on being tolerated. For the record, I would have loved a 2010/11 Rooney in our team right now. I feel his all round game was quite strong/dynamic whilst also managing hitting world class goal tallies. I see a big difference these days and it's worrying. Specially when his ability to score goals seems to completely blind people from the declining aspects of his game.
To finish off, I believe Rooney is certainly capable of hitting a high goal tally, however overall will do more damage to the team than good. Just watch his individual highlights over the last 3 games, not to mention his performances for the last run of games last season. His first touch has become conference level and that's a compliment. He tends to spend way too much time on the ball before making his mind up, whilst also completely losing his ability to beat a man. He couldn't dribble a single San Jose player and he actually attempted quite a few take ons (I think 0 successful out of 4 or 5?-feel free to confirm) that game before anyone says otherwise. The players I mentioned also don't tend to go through such large periods of incosistency which is a big problem as he is the only player to be played by LVG even when in terrible form. Yeah, he's captain but I don't see the harm in benching him every now and then to let him know such performances won't carry on being tolerated. For the record, I would have loved a 2010/11 Rooney in our team right now. I feel his all round game was quite strong/dynamic whilst also managing hitting world class goal tallies. I see a big difference these days and it's worrying. Specially when his ability to score goals seems to completely blind people from the declining aspects of his game.
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Disagreed on every level. Giggsy can be the prefect manager for United. His players would respect him and he would turn United into a big family again and bring us back trophies.
The part in bold is true. The rest is complete guessworkas we have no idea to the mans actual capacity to read the tactical aspects of football, man management, signings, big decisions. Yes LVG will help him alot in every regard but at the end of the day its up to the man himself to be a world class manager and in my opinion we simply should not take the risk again with anyone unproven, no matter how romantic the notion is.
I really wish I believed that but I don't. It just seems like an overly sentimental appointment rather than a logical or rational one.
Experience is crucial; even Fergie had to work his way up the ladder before he got a top job. Giggs has done nothing to suggest that he's ready for such a job in management. Playing and managing are two completely different beasts. It's a massive risk which I don't think we should have anything to do with.
We have no idea whether Giggs would be brilliant or disaster, it's impossible to judge at this point. Which is the whole point really, hiring him would be a totally unnecessary risk if there are other quality managers around who have actually proven themselves.
Appointing the right manager is a really tough job, certainly one I wouldn't want. You definitely reduce the risk of appointing an utter clown if you've seen them perform extremely well at other clubs though.
I agree. If it worked out it would be amazing; a united legend in charge for a couple of decades would be perfect. It is more likely to go wrong though so it's not a risk I'd like us to take.
I'd rather see him somewhere else before taking that gamble anyway.
I wouldn't respect an in law shagger, but that's just me. The new player probably won't respect him as much, past reputations can only last as a goodwill token, over time it's your management skill that will earn your players respect. They might appreciate his status and all that, but you need ability in management, not only respect
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.
It would really not be an emotional appointment. When you talk about massive risk, I disagree. He has something to offer which established manager cannot offer. It is a risk and so is any other manager. Fergie has established and left behind a club in a way that is very different from when he first joined us in 1986. For Giggsy to carry the torch it is a big possibility. LvG has not done anything to United yet so only time will tell if he can lead us to win something.Without FFP to worry about, he probably would have gone to PSG.
It would actually be unfair on Giggs to expect him to take over Manchester United as his first proper job in management. Top managers improve and learn from their mistakes as they go along, so denying Giggs that valuable experience at a different club would actually hinder his chances of success here.
Obviously he isn't going to turn down the job if it's offered to him so hopefully the club has the sense to give him time to earn the job first.
Who is to say Giggsy does not have management skill that is required of at United? I was as disgusted as anyone else when his private behaviour came to light. But then it has not decreased my trust in him as a professional player or in future as a manager.
Yep. Football has a long history of great players who failed as managers, many of whom commanded the same respect that Giggs would. It really means very little.
I'm not sure - I see what you're saying, but from the impression I'm getting Di Maria just hasn't settled in Manchester/England at all, and I'm not sure an extra season would've changed that.
LvG has not proven yet he's the man for the United job to be honest. Many said that it will take time for a new manager in transition. And then he's announcing he's leaving in 2017 (a few days ago he was quoted as saying he would leave United for his wife). So many are already expecting the next manager would need another few years in transition when taking over. If LvG has not (god forbid) brought us anything meaningful before 2017 is upon us, then we are talking about 5 or 6 or 7 years or 8 years since Fergie's retirement being not title chaser.
Before you know it, United is gradually becoming complacent in such kind of position and every year will be "aiming at top 4". Why would it be better than appointing Giggsy and giving him a few years instead? If he has a good second hand man and a good team of coaches and advisers, I don't see it is such a massive risk. Many managers with experience do not make them good manager for United.
Definitely a chance. We were better the year before stat wise, just missed out on the title on goal difference. Scored 3 more goals in 11/12 with Rooney+Welbeck up top, and conceded about 10 less, while having the same number of points, compared to 12/13. I know RvP was our best player that year, but if he didn't come, then Rooney could've had a similar season like he did the one before, instead of being shifted around and not really needed.
I often think that the "great players struggle more as managers" is a little bit of a myth - it's just that it's more noticeable when they fail because there's a heavy spotlight on them. Yeah, there have been plenty of top players who failed as managers, but there's plenty of fairly average, unknown players who go into management and are also incredibly shite at it. It's just that no one really cares when they fail, because they're not as widely known.
There have been a decent number of top players who went on to become good managers: Beckenbauer and Cruyff would be the first two examples that spring to mind. Dalglish is another great player who went on to become a very successful manager. Kevin Keegan's first spell at Newcastle was excellent, even if he was unable to obtain silverware with them. Pep Guardiola and Carlo Ancelotti were both talented players who featured for top clubs that they later went onto to manage.
There are also plenty who fail, but again, I'm not convinced that it's all that much more than lower league players who become managers. You'll just generally get more of those smaller players as major managers because there are more of them - top players are generally more sparse, which is why they're highly regarded.
Anyway, on Giggs, I'm not convinced he'll make a good manager here yet. I'd rather he got some experience first elsewhere. I agree with you that the respect Giggs commands isn't something that would definitely help him if he started to struggle, and I feel that if he were to takeover, he'd struggle if it wasn't a smooth transition. It's difficult to tell how he'd do though, since he's technically got no managerial experience. He was certainly a wise footballer, and knew a lot about the game, but then that's no guarantee of a top manager.
We should sell Rooney, Hernandez, Young, Di maria, Fellaini, Valencia and Mata.
Give Memphis, Januzaj, Wilson, Lingard and Pereira their playing time.
Might win nothing for a few years but it's worth it as there is a chance at something special there.
There is a spine behind them already at the moment, although another CF and a CH maybe needed.
DDG (24)
Darmian (25)---Smalling (25)--Jones (23)---Shaw (20)
Herrera (25)--Schneiderlein (25)
Lingard (22)---Pereira (19)---Depay (21)
Januzaj (20)
- Schweinsteiger (30)
- Carrick (34)
- Wilson (19)
- Mcnair (20)
- Blind (25)
We just need a coach with enough balls to go with it.
Give Memphis, Januzaj, Wilson, Lingard and Pereira their playing time.
Might win nothing for a few years but it's worth it as there is a chance at something special there.
There is a spine behind them already at the moment, although another CF and a CH maybe needed.
DDG (24)
Darmian (25)---Smalling (25)--Jones (23)---Shaw (20)
Herrera (25)--Schneiderlein (25)
Lingard (22)---Pereira (19)---Depay (21)
Januzaj (20)
- Schweinsteiger (30)
- Carrick (34)
- Wilson (19)
- Mcnair (20)
- Blind (25)
We just need a coach with enough balls to go with it.
For the sake of argument though, why would experiences at a different club (probably a much lower level, mid table or lowly ones) help a job at United necessarily? Moyes is a vivid example that's not the case.
WTF!?
Moyes' failure here wasn't particularly down to his experience at lower level clubs though; it was that he simply wasn't good enough for the job. I do think there's a decent argument that Giggs would benefit from a spell away from the club: he's spent pretty much his whole career here, and managerial experience elsewhere could potentially do him the world of good.
There are examples like Guardiola, who spent a large part of his career at Barca and only managed Barca B before taking the main job, examples like him are very rare. Giggs could be a success here without experience elsewhere, but he could also struggle. Of course, Giggs could be destined to be an incredible manager either way, or conversely, could be destined to be an awful manager no matter what he does. It's difficult to tell.
Football manager is strong with this one.
Btw, this team would have some chance of getting relegated.
I'm all for a bit of a shake up, but some of those suggestions are a bit dodgy. You're relying on Januzaj up front, who's not really an out and out striker, with Wilson as back-up, who has proven next to diddly squat so far in regards to being good enough. I think Rooney's on the wane (lol), and Hernandez probably won't spend too many more years here, but we should hold onto them for now, because those striking options look like the options of relegation fodder who themselves forgot to buy a striker.
Why would we sell Mata, too? He's a talented, technically gifted player, who delivered towards the end of last season after a quiet first half. I can see why you'd be adverse to the likes of Fellaini, Young and Valencia, even though the former two are off the back of good seasons, but I don't see what the benefit in selling someone like Mata would be.
I respect Sir Alex as much as the next fan, but it was hardly 'genius'. More common sense, assuming he was solely focused on making sure he won the league that final season.
He had his share of genius signings, but I wouldn't call van Persie one of them.
Personally I wouldn't be too worried... We finished with 70 points last season, despite having all the ridiculous injury problems, having the terrible bedding in period with Van Gaal where we only picked up 13 points in the first 10 games, and then treated the last 5 games like friendlies after virtually securing top 4 early and only getting 1 win in our last 6 games. Now we have loads more depth all around, and the squad is adapted to Van Gaal and his play style so you can be sure we'll be more consistent this season from the off. I can't see us doing worse then last season at all, in fact the very worst I can see us doing next season is only a 5 point improvement compared to the inconsistent season we had last year, and that'd still get us on 75 points which would almost definitely be enough for the top 4.
This highlighted part says it all.
Yours (and most) argument is, he needs to test himself elsewhere to gain experience. I stress one more time: how would those experience elsewhere be beneficial to him to manage United's A team? For example if he's able to take West Ham to top 6 does it mean he would is more trusted to take United to title? Or if he was able to improve Everton to a few places up, does it mean he's capable and ready for a United job automatically?
This.
Him getting experience won't guarantee that he will be a success here. However, it will minimize the chances of appointing him if he turns to be awful (like Maulensteen shown himself to be at Fulham).
Anyone who doesn't think the signing of RvP is a genius act should feel ashamed. Yeah, you should. I can say for sure if Fergie has not retired, RvP would still be a United player and contributing for a couple more year. Yes, its all speculating but this is my speculation. When SAF signed RvP, he had not the intention he was retiring.
No it's obviously not automatic. Do you think it makes it more or less likely though?
This is the unpopular opinions thread right? That squad wouldn't finish 7th, let alone get relegated. Probably 4-6th.
I haven't played Football manager for about 5 years but it still probably had an influence yes
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I suggested selling Mata amongst others to free up playing time for the younger players. I'm a fan but the space in the squad is important.
We wouldn't win much for a while admittedly but we learnt from 04-07 for example what rewards patience in young players can bring. I seriously think that there is potential in that team/squad to be very strong in the future. Stronger than we currently are anyway. Obviously a few shrewd additions would be needed along the way, but only players who fit in with the group.
I haven't played Football manager for about 5 years but it still probably had an influence yes
.I suggested selling Mata amongst others to free up playing time for the younger players. I'm a fan but the space in the squad is important.
We wouldn't win much for a while admittedly but we learnt from 04-07 for example what rewards patience in young players can bring. I seriously think that there is potential in that team/squad to be very strong in the future. Stronger than we currently are anyway. Obviously a few shrewd additions would be needed along the way, but only players who fit in with the group.
you are right if that squad has only 16 players.....that first eleven and this backup players are easily top half of the table. Seven or eight of this players will be in our first 11 ffs....and while that attacking line lacks firepower and that top class quality i reckon they would look better then that shit we had to watch with Rooney, Van Persie and Falcao
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