Unpopular Opinions Thread

[JPRouve]

Barcelona, Ajax, Soton say hi.

The quality of the league and the ambition of the club play a big part, clubs like Montpellier, Ajax, Bilbao, Southampton can because they don't need the best players in the continent.
Barcelona buy players late in their development 17-18, and they didn't produced anyone since Busquets, Thiago (for the first XI), the top teams can't count on their academies, on a regular basis.

 

[Revan]

Err...

Can never get rid mate, even with your suggested solution. Let's say United hypothetically gets relegated, it won't last for long and the club will bounce back again bringing in a new evolved breed of glory-hunters on-board. Success inevitably breeds mass following and adulation. Unless you want United to be turn into a mediocre non-factor like Aston Villa just to spite them. In which case I must say you have to introspect your own sense of support and a rather twisted set of priorities.

I think that the solution is for United to go default and consequently to cease to exist. That would teach them glory hunters a lesson.

 

[Sammyjunn]

As you know Dutch football has a very different mentality when it comes to youth player.If McNair came through at Ajax and did what he did he would be called a future star.In England you need to grow your football quickly or people will write you off.

Could be, but yet they've produced many quality youngsters who have been key players for Ajax and later on for other top clubs.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The quality of the league and the ambition of the club play a big part, clubs like Montpellier, Ajax, Bilbao, Southampton can because they don't need the best players in the continent.
Barcelona buy players late in their development 17-18, and they didn't produced anyone since Busquets, Thiago (for the first XI), the top teams can't count on their academies, on a regular basis.

Ajax and Bilbao have also bought players late in their development as well.

 

[Sammyjunn]

The quality of the league and the ambition of the club play a big part, clubs like Montpellier, Ajax, Bilbao, Southampton can because they don't need the best players in the continent.
Barcelona buy players late in their development 17-18, and they didn't produced anyone since Busquets, Thiago (for the first XI), the top teams can't count on their academies, on a regular basis.

Well since almost a decade they've had like at least 4 players from the academy who have been key players, Messi, Pedro, Xavi, Ini, Valdes? Busquets, and now players like Rafinha, Munir, Sandro are coming through the ranks too, just because we are poor at it, doesnt mean its impossible. Havent Atletico/Valencia too relied on their youth mostly.

 

[Brophs]

Luke Shaw will weigh at least 20 stone within two years of retiring.

 

[Invictus]

I think that the solution is for United to go default and consequently to cease to exist. That would teach them glory hunters a lesson.

Yep. Drastic times call for Ragnarok style doomsday measures.

 

[JPRouve]

Well since almost a decade they've had like at least 4 players from the academy who have been key players, Messi, Pedro, Xavi, Ini, Valdes? Busquets, and now players like Rafinha, Munir, Sandro are coming through the ranks too, just because we are poor at it, doesnt mean its impossible. Havent Atletico/Valencia too relied on their youth mostly.

I didn't said that it was impossible, I said that you can't count on it, sometimes you are lucky and produce the players that you need at the right time.
Clubs like United, Barcelona, Madrid or Munich will always try to produce the players that they need, very little will be good enough to be starters, but a lot more will be good enough to be in the squad.

Pedro for example was 18 years when he joined Barcelona, and Busquets 17 years old.

 

[newgiz]

I am a superfan, so I would like to see United on Championship just because it would get rid of the spoilt glory hunters

So let me get this straight, you want our club to be relegated, just so that you could satisfy your personal ego and prove yourself to be a superfan ('Top Red' isn't that the term?)

Well....Ok...

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I didn't said that it was impossible, I said that you can't count on it, sometimes you are lucky and produce the players that you need at the right time.
Clubs like United, Barcelona, Madrid or Munich will always try to produce the players that they need, very little will be good enough to be starters, but a lot more will be good enough to be in the squad.

Pedro for example was 18 years when he joined Barcelona, and Busquets 17 years old.

And they were signed for peanuts. A type of transfer would be almost impossible in England. Manchester United bought Nick Powell from a League Two club yet still cost around 5 million.

 

[Sammyjunn]

I didn't said that it was impossible, I said that you can't count on it, sometimes you are lucky and produce the players that you need at the right time.
Clubs like United, Barcelona, Madrid or Munich will always try to produce the players that they need, very little will be good enough to be starters, but a lot more will be good enough to be in the squad.

Pedro for example was 18 years when he joined Barcelona, and Busquets 17 years old.

Well that's true, but I think that if the youth academy really is a priority for the club, with good scouting, better facilities, giving youthplayers a chance, it's possible. Lvg always had the youth academy as a priority, we all know how many great youth players have come from it since.

Ajax for example just started a new revolution through Cruyff, the youth had to be a bigger priority. Since then, many great talents have come through the ranks, Alderweireld, Verthongen, Klaassen, Eriksen, Kishna, El Ghazi, Fischer for example some new brilliant talents are coming too. And ofcourse Ajax isnt as big as United and their players dont have to be of such quality, but if I watch their youth teams in tournaments like Aegon, or the Youth League, they're arguably the best and produce some great talents. So I think theres a bit more to do than just luck.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I am a superfan, so I would like to see United on Championship just because it would get rid of the spoilt glory hunters

 

[sizzling sausages]

And they were signed for peanuts. A type of transfer would be almost impossible in England. Manchester United bought Nick Powell from a League Two club yet still cost around 5 million.

Different situations, Powell was already a key player for Crewe's first team when we signed him.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Well that's true, but I think that if the youth academy really is a priority for the club, with good scouting, better facilities, giving youthplayers a chance, it's possible. Lvg always had the youth academy as a priority, we all know how many great youth players have come from it since.

Ajax for example just started a new revolution through Cruyff, the youth had to be a bigger priority. Since then, many great talents have come through the ranks, Alderweireld, Verthongen, Klaassen, Eriksen, Kishna, El Ghazi, Fischer for example some new brilliant talents are coming too. And ofcourse Ajax isnt as big as United and their players dont have to be of such quality, but if I watch their youth teams in tournaments like Aegon, or the Youth League, they're arguably the best and produce some great talents. So I think theres a bit more to do than just luck.

Klaassen is the only player you listed who was not bought from another club at a young age.

 

[khoazany]

Well that's true, but I think that if the youth academy really is a priority for the club, with good scouting, better facilities, giving youthplayers a chance, it's possible. Lvg always had the youth academy as a priority, we all know how many great youth players have come from it since.

Ajax for example just started a new revolution through Cruyff, the youth had to be a bigger priority. Since then, many great talents have come through the ranks, Alderweireld, Verthongen, Klaassen, Eriksen, Kishna, El Ghazi, Fischer for example some new brilliant talents are coming too. And ofcourse Ajax isnt as big as United and their players dont have to be of such quality, but if I watch their youth teams in tournaments like Aegon, or the Youth League, they're arguably the best and produce some great talents. So I think theres a bit more to do than just luck.

In Holland most if not every of the top youngsters will eventually play for Ajax,Feyenoord or PSV.They poach a lot of youngsters from other clubs at 13-16.United doesn't have much of a pulling power in England and our catchment area is much more limited as well.Not to mention the culture allow the youngster to develop without heavy pressures.

 

[JPRouve]

Well that's true, but I think that if the youth academy really is a priority for the club, with good scouting, better facilities, giving youthplayers a chance, it's possible. Lvg always had the youth academy as a priority, we all know how many great youth players have come from it since.

Ajax for example just started a new revolution through Cruyff, the youth had to be a bigger priority. Since then, many great talents have come through the ranks, Alderweireld, Verthongen, Klaassen, Eriksen, Kishna, El Ghazi, Fischer for example some new brilliant talents are coming too. And ofcourse Ajax isnt as big as United and their players dont have to be of such quality, but if I watch their youth teams in tournaments like Aegon, or the Youth League, they're arguably the best and produce some great talents. So I think theres a bit more to do than just luck.

I totally agree with you, the academies must be a priority, what I disagree with is when people expect a top player every year, most of the time the best academies are lucky to produce one great player every 5 years, for me a good academy is an academy who can provides the majority of the squad player for your team and who produces a lot of players for other teams in your league.

 

[JPRouve]

Klaassen is the only player you listed who was not bought from another club at a young age.

Alderweireld was at the club around 14 years old.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Different situations, Powell was already a key player for Crewe's first team when we signed him.

Fair point.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Klaassen is the only player you listed who was not bought from another club at a young age.

So? Is the criteria that the player should be there from 6 years old or something? This has to do with scouting, something that's also part of the youth academy, at least imo. I could also name van Rhijn, Anita, Blind.

 

[Tyrion]

I am a superfan, so I would like to see United on Championship just because it would get rid of the spoilt glory hunters

I love this place.

Our youth program seems more successful at populating other Prem sides with starting players than it does the current United side.

It is. Tbf, our academy produces a lot of players who are of a decent standard and I don't mind if a good few of them wind up in the championship. Most players aren't good enough for the top level no matter how much coaching you give them and those players can do good things for those other clubs plus it's a good job regardless so it suits everyone. Cases like Pogba however do bother me.

 

[Barney]

you can only count on your youth system for providing squad players, which allow you to concentrate your resources on top players.

That's not true at all.

 

[Cheesy]

I am a superfan, so I would like to see United on Championship just because it would get rid of the spoilt glory hunters

I'm guessing this is a parody post?

 

[Sammyjunn]

In Holland most if not every of the top youngsters will eventually play for Ajax,Feyenoord or PSV.They poach a lot of youngsters from other clubs at 13-16.United doesn't have much of a pulling power in England and our catchment area is much more limited as well.Not to mention the culture allow the youngster to develop without heavy pressures.

Why do you think Ajax has much pulling power and United doesnt? Ajax is familiar for producing great talent, develop young players and giving them the chance, since the class of 92, how many players from the youth academy have become a first team player for United, not that many. You're right about the catchment area probably, I'm not sure how it works in England. But I think that up until lets say 17 years, the pressure is pretty much the same. 90% of the United fans dont even know who play in our u16 and u18. Its mostly the English hype which brings that pressure, see Januzaj or Sterling.

 

[JPRouve]

So? Is the criteria that the player should be there from 6 years old or something? This has to do with scouting, something that's also part of the youth academy, at least imo. I could also name van Rhijn, Anita, Blind.

But how many of the players you mentioned are good enough for United ?
And how many of Januzaj, Shawcross, Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck, Wilson, Mcnair, Morrison are/were good enough for Ajax ?

 

[JPRouve]

That's not true at all.

Can you elaborate, please ?

 

[khoazany]

Why do you think Ajax has much pulling power and United doesnt? Ajax is familiar for producing great talent, develop young players and giving them the chance, since the class of 92, how many players from the youth academy have become a first team player for United, not that many. You're right about the catchment area probably, I'm not sure how it works in England. But I think that up until lets say 17 years, the pressure is pretty much the same. 90% of the United fans dont even know who play in our u16 and u18. Its mostly the English hype which brings that pressure, see Januzaj or Sterling.

It's also about the competition.If you're nearer to London you will probably sign for Chelsea,Arsenal,Spurs,Fulham,WBA,West Ham.If you're nearer to Merseyside you'll probably sign for Liverpool and Everton.If you're near Manchester, there are Manchester City,Bolton etc.Not to mention Southampton,Leeds,Boro,... Once you're already at a category 1 academy you're unlikely to move to other.

In Holland Ajax can easily get at least 1/3 of the best talents in one crop - many of them are originally from other clubs.

 

[Gopher Brown]

I think that the solution is for United to go default and consequently to cease to exist. That would teach them glory hunters a lesson.

I think we should rename ourselves 'Manchester City Reserves' and change our colours to blue and sign only ex-City players - Paul Dickov, Paul Lake, Paul Power, Paul Stewart - and ask to be put down to the Lancashire Amateur League Division Six.

That'll learn them. See who's still around when we're playing Whitworth Valley Reserves and Bury Grammar School Old Boys 'B'.

 

[Rowem]

Sammyjunn is getting torn apart in this thread

 

[Rowem]

It's also about the competition.If you're nearer to London you will probably sign for Chelsea,Arsenal,Spurs,Fulham,WBA,West Ham.If you're nearer to Merseyside you'll probably sign for Liverpool and Everton.If you're near Manchester, there are Manchester City,Bolton etc.Not to mention Southampton,Leeds,Boro,... Once you're already at a category 1 academy you're unlikely to move to other.

In Holland Ajax can easily get at least 1/3 of the best talents in one crop - many of them are originally from other clubs.

This is a true and valid point, however some of your UK Geography is a bit off

 

[Sammyjunn]

It's also about the competition.If you're nearer to London you will probably sign for Chelsea,Arsenal,Spurs,Fulham,WBA,West Ham.If you're nearer to Merseyside you'll probably sign for Liverpool and Everton.If you're near Manchester, there are Manchester City,Bolton etc.Not to mention Southampton,Leeds,Boro,... Once you're already at a category 1 academy you're unlikely to move to other.

In Holland Ajax can easily get at least 1/3 of the best talents in one crop - many of them are originally from other clubs.

True but I think it isnt so many actually what Ajax picks from the lower clubs in Holland, they do buy many players from other countries but from the current crop of talents, the only youngsters(noteable) they've picked from other clubs are Zivko, Bazoer, Kishna and El Ghazi. Players like Veltman, Van Rhijn, Klaassen, 3 key players have been here since very young (van Rhijn went to another club amd then came back), same goes for Verthongen, Alderweireld, Blind. Or when you look a bit further Urby, Babel, Sneijder.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Sammyjunn is getting torn apart in this thread

Am I? Interesting.

 

[DOTA]

Obvious professional fouls should always be red cards.

None of this 'taking a yellow for the team' crap. It's blatant cheating and should be stamped out.

 

[khoazany]

This is a true and valid point, however some of your UK Geography is a bit off

I've tried my best for a person who has never been to UK and without looking at any sort of map

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Phil Jones is our best central defender.

 

[Barney]

Can you elaborate, please ?

You should be able to count on your youth system to produce a nailed on first team player every few years. Obviously it won't happen every year, but if you're at a big club like United, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal who invest heavily in their academies, then it definitely isn't too much to expect.

 

[limerickcitykid]

But how many of the players you mentioned are good enough for United ?
And how many of Januzaj, Shawcross, Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck, Wilson, Mcnair, Morrison are/were good enough for Ajax ?

Not many and loads of them. We've got loads of Anita level players throughtout the league.

 

[JUPITER]

Our scouting system is a complete joke compared to other elite clubs and it's more in need of an overhaul than anything else within the club.

We're signing players that actually hurt our squad rather than improve it, and we haven't made a truly *great* outfield signing in more than 5 years...

 

[Kag]

Our scouting system is nothing short of excellent.

Southampton's success is inflated on the basis of a staggering catchment area, only matched by the North East clubs; an area of the country that is woefully deprived of quality grass roots investment. Southampton benefit from that in addition to their obvious quality coaching. Inflated nonetheless.

 

[JPRouve]

You should be able to count on your youth system to produce a nailed on first team player every few years. Obviously it won't happen every year, but if you're at a big club like United, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal who invest heavily in their academies, then it definitely isn't too much to expect.

I agree with that, you should aim for a first team player every 5 year, but during this time you need to be able to feel your team with squad players from your own academy.

And that's what United, Arsenal and liverpool do.

 

[Roman Bellic]

Messi and Ronaldo are greater than Pele and Maradona - even if they never win the World Cup, The World Cup is not the undisputed cup it used to be back then, where if a player doesn't win it he can't be considered great, i for one think the Champions League is a much better platform to showcase your individual greatness, that is not to take anything away from the World Cup its just that to win the World Cup you have to have a great team and it can be argued that the likes of Portugal and Argentina haven't really been great, i mean they have managed to reach the semis and the final respectively at some point in the last 3 world cups but you can't compare their teams to the likes of Pele's Brazil or Maradona's Argentina.

In terms of club records, it is really a foregone conclusion as Messi and Ronaldo don't measure to anybody in terms of goals,assists,trophies etc especially in Europe.