Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag

[Lash]

Odd way of just saying that he picked them. Like saying Mourinho developed McTominay, or Moyes developed Januzaj, or LVG developed Rashford.

The players developed of their own accord.

ok, if that's the route you're going down, I'm out. Have a good evening.

 

[NK86]

On the 400m point in isolation, I'm not blaming Ten Hag on money spent, because we've wasted money for a decade prior to him. I don't think *he* is the problem on transfers, because he should never have had the sole say in who we buy. We had clowns negotiating deals and it was a failure.

That being said, we can and should evaluate his efforts on the field and I'm in total agreement that we haven't just stood still this season, we've regressed massively. He's not tweaked or adapted to the injury crisis, he's not changed tactics which clearly don't work, and he hasn't salvaged enough games through his in-game substitutions. He needs to take ownership on that and despite an outperformance in year 1, his work this year is objectively sackable. Would I sack him? I'm on the fence, tilting toward not doing so. But I certainly don't argue against anyone who thinks he should go. I totally get it.

That’s the thing. Results wise I would agree he did well last season but our play style was not different to how we did under Ole. We just trusted on Rashford to drag us out many times while we defended well with Cas being a monster in front of our defense. However, I am sure everyone expected a change in style and performances to improve in the second season.

He definitely implemented a new style but it is suicidal, which as you rightly said has had is regress both in terms of performance and results. The thing is no one is able to point out what exactly has he brought to the table except his reputation that he is a good coach. There is nothing tangible during his tenure here to show he can help build us to be a dominant team again.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I can't believe that the reasons to let him have another year are:

1) He was decent 1st year. Forget about 2nd year as it was due to injuries, despite we played awful even when we have full team. Also, our 1st year is just average.

2) There is no standout manager to replace him despite we were being basically outplayed by many managers with budget much smaller than us.

3) There were no football structure to assist him despite he himself insisted on taking charge of signings and spunked 400M.

4) We need to keep him to make a statement to the players and change majority of the players this time round to do something differently. Despite he has already signed majority of the players he wanted.

5) We keep sacking managers for the last decade. We need to do something differently now. Keep the failing manager instead so that given enough time he will succeed. Despite he failed every metrics in his KPI and no signs whatsoever to build on.

 

[Lash]

Well it's a tried and tested trick used to deflect the failings of every previous manager too, and it doesn't wash.

You can give them credit for playing youngsters, absolutely, but the youngsters get the credit for developing and improving. Mainoo is not the player he is because ETH coached him

Apart from that's not what we were doing, you were just asking for a positive and what he could add. You should know, you asked the question.

So no manager develops anyone, they just play them and whatever happens, happens?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I can't believe that the reasons to let him have another year are:

1) He was decent 1st year. Forget about 2nd year as it was due to injuries, despite we played awful even when we have full team. Also, our 1st year is just average.

2) There is no standout manager to replace him despite we were being basically outplayed by many managers with budget much smaller than us.

3) There were no football structure to assist him despite he himself insisted on taking charge of signings and spunked 400M.

4) We need to keep him to make a statement to the players and change majority of the players this time round to do something differently. Despite he has already signed majority of the players he wanted.

5) We keep sacking managers for the last decade. We need to do something differently now. Keep the failing manager instead so that given enough time he will succeed. Despite he failed every metrics in his KPI and no signs whatsoever to build on.

1. You weren’t on the forum during the 1st season so I can’t see what your views were but season 1 wasn’t average. It was objectively a good season.
2. Which manager gets more out of Evans and Casemiro at CB with AWB at LB and Eriksen and Mainoo in CM?
3. Just look back at your post history. You know you don’t believe this is Ten Hag’s fault you’ve been calling out the terrible structure since you arrived to the forum.
4. We do need to work on our sporting culture we do need less player power we haven’t changed the majority of players without people running through reserve GKs, youth team players and including Jonny Evans as a key signing.
5. What KPI are you referring to? What data do you have that the club doesn’t? We’ve improved our front press, we’ve improved our goalscoring rate from pre 2024 by a goal more per game.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Apart from that's not what we were doing, you were just asking for a positive and what he could add. You should know, you asked the question.

So no manager develops anyone, they just play them and whatever happens, happens?

You can give them credit for playing youngsters, absolutely, but the youngsters get the credit for developing and improving. Mainoo is not the player he is because ETH coached him

So @hobbers which players is the manager responsible for developing? Is it just the bad ones?

Because your line of argument here lends itself to being that purely player quality is the thing that drives performance ultimately and therefore United doesn’t have the player quality needed to perform at the required level. Which could be down to multiple factors then if the manager isn’t responsible for developing players?

 

[Salford_Red83]

1. You weren’t on the forum during the 1st season so I can’t see what your views were but season 1 wasn’t average. It was objectively a good season.
2. Which manager gets more out of Evans and Casemiro at CB with AWB at LB and Eriksen and Mainoo in CM?
3. Just look back at your post history. You know you don’t believe this is Ten Hag’s fault you’ve been calling out the terrible structure since you arrived to the forum.
4. We do need to work on our sporting culture we do need less player power we haven’t changed the majority of players without people running through reserve GKs, youth team players and including Jonny Evans as a key signing.
5. What KPI are you referring to? What data do you have that the club doesn’t? We’ve improved our front press, we’ve improved our goalscoring rate from pre 2024 by a goal more per game.

You really have drunk the Kool-Aid haven't you??

 

[Rood]

So keeping the current manager for a 3rd year would not be boring?

No - the fall out on here would be massively entertaining at least !

It's also about alternative options and not really seeing any that excite

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Their youth coaches and themselves first and foremost, obviously. If you dont like it, then answer me this - what % of Mainoo's talent do you think ETH is responsible for? Same question for Rashford and LVG if you like.

Your second line makes no sense. I never said anything about how much player quality reflects in a team performance. That's getting into semantic nonsense.

Mainoo has a high level of ability for his age but has looked out of his depth at times in ETH's teams. Shit coaching can make a natural talent look mediocre or naiive. As Carragher's analysis showed.

I don’t understand the question. Are you asking in terms of physical attributes, technical and tactical attributes?

What % is Ten Hag responsible for Mainoo being on the pitch?

It’s really not Hobbers. You’re implying Ten Hag has had no influence at all on Mainoo’s development and so if he’s been unable to influence him presumably due to his formative years not being under Ten Hag then how exactly do you track the influence he has had on anyone? By your flawed reasoning here surely Ten Hag needs more time then to coach any players into his mould because he’s only had access to Mainoo this season he won’t have had a significant impact.

That means the lack of access to Mount is exactly the same and every other player who he’s not had lots of time with.

You are saying he’s not responsible for the good in Mainoo so how is he then responsible for the bad in others?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You quoted the old post of course before I reread your question, but he's responsible for the bad on display because he's utterly failing to develop almost anyone in that squad to play as a team in his system.

Vast majority dont like playing in it, it doesnt suit their most of their strengths, it isnt getting results, therefore they no longer believe in it or in him.

But he’s not had access to the players same way he hasn’t had access to Mainoo for his formative years and so he’s not responsible for Mainoo developing so how is he now responsible for a squad full of injuries developing.

It’s really poor logic and argument from yourself here.

You’re claiming he has no influence on a player but every influence over the others who are performing badly.

You also are purely speculating now. I could easily argue the Liverpool game shows they haven’t given up on him and believe in what they can do with him etc.

If you won’t credit him with Mainoo’s development at all then I fail to see how you can attribute blame for development of others he’s had similar time/access to.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

If anything Hobbers your argument suggests he should stay on so that he actually has the time needed to develop the players into his style of play. Because if young Mainoo hasn’t been developed by him then how could anyone?

 

[stevoc]

No - the fall out on here would be massively entertaining at least !

It's also about alternative options and not really seeing any that excite

The idea of not having to watch this team repeat the tactical clusterfeck that has been this season is what excites me to be honest.

I've never had to endure so many boring games in one season as I have this one. Limp in attack and useless in defence. At least under LVG we were good defensively while being boring.

 

[Sandikan]

I can't believe that the reasons to let him have another year are:

1) He was decent 1st year. Forget about 2nd year as it was due to injuries, despite we played awful even when we have full team. Also, our 1st year is just average.

2) There is no standout manager to replace him despite we were being basically outplayed by many managers with budget much smaller than us.

3) There were no football structure to assist him despite he himself insisted on taking charge of signings and spunked 400M.

4) We need to keep him to make a statement to the players and change majority of the players this time round to do something differently. Despite he has already signed majority of the players he wanted.

5) We keep sacking managers for the last decade. We need to do something differently now. Keep the failing manager instead so that given enough time he will succeed. Despite he failed every metrics in his KPI and no signs whatsoever to build on.

Yep.
The season has been an absolute bust from day 1 when Wolves ran us off the pitch and we somehow got away with a win.

The only real highlights of the season have been frustrating Liverpool, the cup run, and Mainoo & Garnacho developing.
McTom and Maguire have had a bit of a resurgence, but we all know they should be back up not starters really.

Football wise it's been dire, we seem to have decided a sensible strategy is that the front 5 press like maniacs, the defence stay deep, usually leaving 1 midfielder to try and cover half the pitch. Funnily enough it means we give up 20-30 shots every game.

 

[Salford_Red83]

No - the fall out on here would be massively entertaining at least !

It's also about alternative options and not really seeing any that excite

- Most defeats in a PL season.
- 18 (EIGHTEEN) defeats in all competitions.
- Fewest points achieved in a PL season.
- Most goals conceded in a season (55 so far with 4 games left).
- Scored 52 goals this season. (three more than our worst goalscoring season in 2015/16 under Louis van Gaal.)
- Highest number of shots faced in a PL season (600+ so far).
- Finished bottom of Champions League group.
- Spunked £400m+ up the wall. (Backed more than his predecessors)
- He literally doesn't know how to control games.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Moyes was sacked for less than this. So too LvG, Jose and Ole. Why the hell is ETH getting a free pass?? What exactly has he done to garner so much blind loyalty??

He is absolutely diabolical and I feel like I'm going completely mad when I see people saying we should give him another year. It's so small time, it's ridiculous!!

Right now any of the floated names are better than ETH. And I don't really care whether they are an exciting name or not. The time for that has passed.

Competency is what's needed and, regardless of other factors, he really isn't.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

This argument is such a stretch. Of those 15 two of them (Bayindir and Kawbwala) have played less than 5 games for us combined. One of them (Forson) has played less than 90 minutes for us total. It would be like saying Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair were Van Gaal players, and they played far more.

Three of them have been injured nearly all of this season, including two of the starting eleven (Martinez and Mount)

Garnacho and Mainoo are not even 20 years old and this is the first season they've been starters. Hojlund also very young and adjusting to a new league.

Evans wasn't even meant to sign for us he joined us to keep fit and we ended up taking him because our summer transfer business was so shit.

Casemiro it's debatable if he was a Ten Hag preferred signing or a club signing.

Amrabat and Eriksen are fringe players at best.

Of the eleven players with the most appearances this season, 6 were signed before he arrived, and that's excluding Mainoo/Garnacho.

There's plenty to criticise Ten Hag about without making the claim that it's his squad.

Kambwala has played 9 times this season. ten Hag deciding not to use Bayındır more is his choice. City, Arsenal and Liverpool have used their #2 GK. Eh, why wouldn’t Blackett and McNair be considered as LvG players? They are.

What has that got to do with them being ten Hag signings though?

What does their age have to do with it either? Have a look all across Europe and you will find teams who have multiple 17-21 year olds who start games and are even key players in some cases:

Leverkusen - Wirtz was 20 this season
Bayern - Musical was 20/21 this season
Real - Bellingham and Camavinga
Barcelona - Cubarsí (17). Yamal (16), Gavi (19) Fermín (20)
PSG - Zaïre-Emery 17/18 this season
Arsenal - Saliba, Martinelli and Saka were all key players for Arsenal during last season’s title challenge at the age of 21.

Rooney and Ronaldo were key players for us as teenagers and world class by 21.

Good thing Evans was signed, as he’s been one of our best players. We can’t even ten Hag any credit for that one though. Unfortunately, free transfers don’t count.

ten Hag claimed that the plan was to sign both FdJ and Casemiro in his recent interview with Gary Neville.

Amrabat and Eriksen barely being used this season is ten Hag’s decision. Both were still signed by him.

Stop lying to yourself. The squad has undergone an overhaul over the past 2 years and we are still shit. Worse than ever after almost 2 years under this coach.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

1. You weren’t on the forum during the 1st season so I can’t see what your views were but season 1 wasn’t average. It was objectively a good season.
2. Which manager gets more out of Evans and Casemiro at CB with AWB at LB and Eriksen and Mainoo in CM?
3. Just look back at your post history. You know you don’t believe this is Ten Hag’s fault you’ve been calling out the terrible structure since you arrived to the forum.
4. We do need to work on our sporting culture we do need less player power we haven’t changed the majority of players without people running through reserve GKs, youth team players and including Jonny Evans as a key signing.
5. What KPI are you referring to? What data do you have that the club doesn’t? We’ve improved our front press, we’ve improved our goalscoring rate from pre 2024 by a goal more per game.

1) I was in the forum. Not sure what's your point. Yes, 1st season is the minimum we expect from a Man Utd manager especially he was backed in his first season. The 1st season was acceptable because everyone expecting better 2nd season. The 1st season the expectations was not high because he was given time to rebuild. 2nd season is just not acceptable.

2) There are many better coaches and no point arguing here as it's very subjective. And ETH didn't play them all season at these positions. We are being outplayed many times and sometime with almost full team.

3) Yes, every man and his dog know about our terrible structure. 100% of the fans here were complaining the same thing. But ETH was reported to want full control or at least have heavy influence on signings. Hence, he was part of the problem and failed terribly.

4) IMO, the players are not the problem, maybe a few of them. We need to change the problematic players regardless who will be the manager. IMO, the style of play and man management are the biggest problem because ETH already have a lot of his signings and yet we are nowhere near to the standard required.

5) I don't need to have any data. The most important KPIs. Is it acceptable for Man Utd manager to finish 8th (or not qualified for CL) in 2nd season after spending 400M? Is it acceptable for Man Utd to be outplayed by many smaller clubs? Is it acceptable for Man Utd to have no style of play which was constantly being criticized by experts and pundits?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

That reason is based in reality, he has developed them and brought them through. He has handled Mainoo well, Garnacho has been our best attacker at 19 and Hojlund did have a period in the season where he looked like the striker we were hoping for.

Exactly, he likely will have better options in the squad so he doesn't have to get booed when he subs Mainoo and Hojlund. Garnacho will likely be better next season and more robust.

It is made up that he hasn't developed them and they might get injured - he has actively protected them from fatigue and gets booed for. They might get injured with anyone, not sure how it's an argument against him when we'll be playing less games and hopefully a deeper squad.

He deserves credit for giving them both the opportunity. But neither have developed well under him in this team.

Garnacho isn't a better player now than he was when he assisted those 2 goals vs Villa in The League Cup 18 months ago. Slow progress.

Mainoo, like any other midfielder in this system, struggles to impose himself. His 2 wonder goals this season are down to his own individual ability. Off the cuff.

They'd both benefit from a change of management more than anyone else in the squad. They're still young and coachable.

 

[Red00012]

I’d give him a pass on the injuries if it wasn’t how we are set up tactically and our general play been so woeful . I actually can’t believe he persists with having no style of play And then goes on to defend it post match game after game.

It’s been so obvious from the 1st game v Wolves who appointed a manager a few days before the game and managed to outplay us for the whole game.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Oh I misread the question.

Managers develop players to play as a team in their chosen system. Doesn't matter how good or bad the players are.

Young players and their youth coaches are responsible for developing themselves into talented footballers.


You could argue ETH has best developed Dalot for playing in his system. Whereas he's failed to develop most of the other players since they all look like square pegs in round holes.

I’ve just seen this updated post.

So first bold point: You don’t believe player quality matters? Surely it limits what a coach can do?

Why do you think Dalot might have developed a lot under Ten Hag? Could that have anything to do with him playing 92% of our minutes this season and the most available of all our starters bar Bruno?

 

[Lash]

He deserves credit for giving them both the opportunity. But neither have developed well under him in this team.

Garnacho isn't a better player now than he was when he assisted those 2 goals vs Villa in The League Cup 18 months ago. Slow progress.

Mainoo, like any other midfielder in this system, struggles to impose himself. His 2 wonder goals this season are down to his own individual ability. Off the cuff.

They'd both benefit from a change of management more than anyone else in the squad. They're still young and coachable.

They are objectively better and he fast tracked Mainoo. He would have been in the side earlier if the injury in pre season hadn't happened.

Again, this isn't to say other managers couldn't develop them better. That's always the case if your manager isn't elite, but to try and say he's not developed them is grossly unfair. What other 19 and 18 year olds are playing at their level in the league?

There's nothing wrong with wanting Ten Hag out, but trying to say he has no impact on the only good parts of our season makes little sense if you blame him for everything else.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

The idea of not having to watch this team repeat the tactical clusterfeck that has been this season is what excites me to be honest.

I've never had to endure so many boring games in one season as I have this one. Limp in attack and useless in defence. At least under LVG we were good defensively while being boring.

We’re scoring on average 2.3 goals per game since January. That’s boring?

 

[mu4c_20le]

They are objectively better and he fast tracked Mainoo. He would have been in the side earlier if the injury in pre season hadn't happened.

Debatable. Just because he was involved in preseason doesn't guarantee he'd be given minutes over Mount, Eriksen, Amrabat.

Again, this isn't to say other managers couldn't develop them better. That's always the case if your manager isn't elite, but to try and say he's not developed them is grossly unfair. What other 19 and 18 year olds are playing at their level in the league?

There's nothing wrong with wanting Ten Hag out, but trying to say he has no impact on the only good parts of our season makes little sense if you blame him for everything else.

It's not a good look when most of the youngsters he supposedly developed or brought to the club are starting to turn on him.

 

[Salford_Red83]

We’re scoring on average 2.3 goals per game since January. That’s boring?

Do you not have eyes??

 

[kouroux]

Injuries cannot explain the struggle to get results against lower ranked PL teams and Coventry. There have been countless examples of shocking results against shit teams for someone sensible to consider giving him another year. If we were only losing against the tougher opponents but held our own against all the other teams then yeah, I'd understand wanting to give him another year.
We finished bottom of our CL groupe when we were all initially happy with the draw.

 

[Grande]

We’re scoring on average 2.3 goals per game since January. That’s boring?

No, of coursenit’s not boring. Any and all of the non United people I’ve heard talking about United games this season, has said they play entertaining games. Many fans don’t really care about that, though. They want to see us win and in addition to see us dominate games, and are frustrated. Understandably so, this season, even if it’s a passing phase.

(Some do pretend it’s about the entertainment, though)

 

[CallyRed]

Scoring 2.3 goals a game
Conceding 23.4 shots at goal a game.

Definitely not boring.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We’re scoring on average 2.3 goals per game since January. That’s boring?

sounds like something a bluemoon poster would write tbh

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Scoring 2.3 goals a game
Conceding 23.4 shots at goal a game.

Definitely not boring.

But but we have improved on scoring in 2024!

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Where have I said he has "every influence on ones performing badly"? You're the one saying that.

Stop the semantics and obsession with the word logic.


It's really, really simple. Young players are either talented when they hit the first team or not. Players are either good or not. Managers dont develop bad players into good ones, they might develop bad players into ones that fit well into their system. Equally they might fail to develop good players to fit into their system. How well they get a group of players to fit into their team, and their system, philosophy, ethos etc., defines whether they are a good manager or not.

That's the essence of "making a team greater than the sum of its parts". ETH has made the team far, far worse than the sum of its parts. Despite having 2 years and spending £450m on players he wanted.

You’re suggesting he hasn’t developed Mainoo and that he’s made players worse. So somehow you’re suggesting he hasn’t influenced the positive development but only the negative.

If players are either talented or not you need to then look at this squad that has been available and tell me is it a champions league level team without a consistent back 4, with heavy rotation and injury in midfield, with no central striker depth all season and with 3 under 21 players being key components in their debut seasons in the PL?

Ten Hag hasn’t had the parts available to make a good team unless you think Evans and Casemiro one week and Lindelof and Kwambala the other or was it Maguire and Casemiro? I lose count.

1) I was in the forum. Not sure what's your point. Yes, 1st season is the minimum we expect from a Man Utd manager especially he was backed in his first season. The 1st season was acceptable because everyone expecting better 2nd season. The 1st season the expectations was not high because he was given time to rebuild. 2nd season is just not acceptable.

2) There are many better coaches and no point arguing here as it's very subjective. And ETH didn't play them all season at these positions. We are being outplayed many times and sometime with almost full team.

3) Yes, every man and his dog know about our terrible structure. 100% of the fans here were complaining the same thing. But ETH was reported to want full control or at least have heavy influence on signings. Hence, he was part of the problem and failed terribly.

4) IMO, the players are not the problem, maybe a few of them. We need to change the problematic players regardless who will be the manager. IMO, the style of play and man management are the biggest problem because ETH already have a lot of his signings and yet we are nowhere near to the standard required.

5) I don't need to have any data. The most important KPIs. Is it acceptable for Man Utd manager to finish 8th (or not qualified for CL) in 2nd season after spending 400M? Is it acceptable for Man Utd to be outplayed by many smaller clubs? Is it acceptable for Man Utd to have no style of play which was constantly being criticized by experts and pundits?

1. My point is I can’t go back and see your posts from last season as they don’t appear on your profile.1st season most had us finishing outside the top 4. Not winning a cup and coming 3rd with the joint 2nd best goals conceded and most clean sheets for example.
2. It absolutely matters please tell me who manages that back line to success this season? Who manages a constantly injured and rotated back line better? I’m not talking a 2 week period I’m talking a whole season now who can do it? Has anyone ever done it
3. Part of the problem maybe but not fully responsible it’s widely reported how poor the club was ran at this point so to blame Ten Hag for this is unfair. Unless you think the Glazers did a great job getting things set up for him?
4. So do you believe that the players we have available this season are good enough to do significantly more? We’ve had Jonny Evans play 39% of our season at CB for example is that a top club thing?
5. Is it acceptable to finish 8th? Well the season isn’t over yet. So why are we acting as though it is? But if we did finish 8th given the injuries this season I’d say it’s not the end of the world and also it’s happened before to Arsenal what makes us better than 8th? If we had a normal season then no it’s not acceptable. But we haven’t had a normal one and ignoring context is just silly. It’s like being critical for not running a faster time in 100m despite having a broken leg. Theres only so much you can do.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

They are objectively better and he fast tracked Mainoo. He would have been in the side earlier if the injury in pre season hadn't happened.

Again, this isn't to say other managers couldn't develop them better. That's always the case if your manager isn't elite, but to try and say he's not developed them is grossly unfair. What other 19 and 18 year olds are playing at their level in the league?

There's nothing wrong with wanting Ten Hag out, but trying to say he has no impact on the only good parts of our season makes little sense if you blame him for everything else.

Like I said, he deserves credit for giving them the opportunity. But I don't think they've developed well under him. You disagree. Okay?

Brighton have had Hinshelwood, Buonanotte and Ferguson all do well as teenagers under De Zerbri. Enciso only turned 20 in January. He was excellent last season.

Odobert has done well at Burnley as teenager in a struggling team. Koleosho (19) has been a big miss for them. He's been injured for 5 months.

Miley impressed for Newcastle as a 17 year old this season.

I don't look back at this season and think that Garnacho has been amazing. He's scored in 6 games out of 46 games played. Villa at home, Everton at home and Chelsea away were his memorable performances, for me.

 

[mu4c_20le]

1. Is it acceptable to finish 8th? Well the season isn’t over yet. So why are we acting as though it is? But if we did finish 8th given the injuries this season I’d say it’s not the end of the world and also it’s happened before to Arsenal what makes us better than 8th? If we had a normal season then no it’s not acceptable. But we haven’t had a normal one and ignoring context is just silly. It’s like being critical for not running a faster time in 100m despite having a broken leg. Theres only so much you can do.

Why are you randomly comparing us with Arsenal with no context?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It matters but the coaches' ability to get the best out of his players matters more.

Dalot's stock has grown under ETH, one of the only players in the squad to do so. Not necessarily because he's become a better footballer. But because he has fitted into this system better than others. Maybe just because it suits his game, or because ETH has coached him well in what to do, or both.

So you acknowledge that Dalot, our only defender to have played pretty much all season, has adapted well to the system. So the system can work for some players.

So if it’s working for Dalot our most available defender is there a possible reason why it’s not worked as much with other defenders who have been unavailable due to injury?

Im really glad Hobbers you can acknowledge that Ten Hag has clearly coached Dalot positively. Can we also acknowledge that we also previously had the 2nd best defence (based on goals conceded) last season with the most clean sheets?

Does this suggest that Ten Hag is therefore able to coach defenders?

But but we have improved on scoring in 2024!

Am I lying is that not true?

We get asked what has improved. I’ve told you what’s improved and yet it’s still subject to derision. Call me cynical but maybe you don’t care about the facts that counter the narrative that no change has occurred.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Why are you randomly comparing us with Arsenal with no context?

A team still very much in development with obvious issues finished 8th but then develops from that position to where they are today.

It’s a minor point but worth noting it has happened elsewhere and that was without the level of injury we’ve had. Theres was a culture and quality issue.

Ours is a culture, quality and injury issue.

 

[Leftback99]

With him in charge next season I really cant see us doing any better than the 8th place we're about to finish.

We'll probably do worse.

The squad is an absolute mess because of his £400m of signings. And we won't have big money to spend in the summer.

City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle all have better squads than us. Teams like Palace have numerous players that would walk into our best XI.

 

[mu4c_20le]

A team still very much in development with obvious issues finished 8th but then develops from that position to where they are today.

It’s a minor point but worth noting it has happened elsewhere and that was without the level of injury we’ve had. Theres was a culture and quality issue.

Ours is a culture, quality and injury issue.

Besides the obvious fact that we had different objectives, players, and expectations at the time.. you are also ignoring a crucial stat, goal difference. Even when they finished 8th they had clear signs of progress. We are closer to Everton that year, they finished 10th with -1 GD. We could become Arsenal, but more likely could fall even further like the Toffees.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

A 50.5 / 100 is an F.

I chuckled. Complete failure.

 

[Sarni]

Not even ETH pick his own players. Let ineos sign players that fit their new mould and ETH has to manage them. I expect them to have a better strategy in place than a manager picking who he wants.

What if he doesn’t get the players he needs? We won’t be able to judge him because it may be INEOS’ fault for getting him the wrong players.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It suggests Ole coached the team quite well defensively and Martinez+Case added a lot of value to the conservative, 2 holding midfielder, rely on moments from Rashford system we used last season. Then ETH dismantled it, implemented the suicide system and his training methods got everyone injured. But Dalot is quite good coming into midfield and can run all day so he looks alright.

Ok now you’re being silly if you’re just giving credit to Ole (who I think did a good job as far as he could with us until Ronaldo signed).

So Erik Ten Hag made two good signings? Or was he not responsible for that? What are we allowed to attribute positively to him here? Did he coach Martinez to help improve that system? Or Casemiro (I’m guessing he wasn’t here long enough?)

A lot of what you’ve said is speculation regarding training injuries.

But I’ll take at least that you’ve acknowledged Dalot, our most available defender, has adapted to his defensive role in this new system really well. Might be something in that?

Besides the obvious fact that we had different objectives, players, and expectations at the time.. you are also ignoring a crucial stat, goal difference. Even when they finished 8th they had clear signs of progress. We are closer to Everton that year, they finished 10th with -1 GD. We could become Arsenal, but more likely could fall even further like the Toffees.

I’d love our goal difference to be higher too. I’d also love not to have had however many defenders out injured all season with as many rotations as we’ve had making any system in defence inherently flawed beyond low block and hope for the best. We’ve also got the youngest front 3 on average I believe of the clubs above us?

 

[Leftback99]

Every week like clockwork his apologists get bolder as the week goes on. Only to go quiet again when the football is actually played.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

With him in charge next season I really cant see us doing any better than the 8th place we're about to finish.

We'll probably do worse.

The squad is an absolute mess because of his £400m of signings. And we won't have big money to spend in the summer.

City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle all have better squads than us. Teams like Palace have numerous players that would walk into our best XI.

I don't think it could ever get as bad as 8th again.

But we've actually already seen how badly he's done with an easy schedule this season. We went out of The League Cup on November 1st and were completely out of Europe before Christmas.

Yet.. we're worse than ever and still picking up injuries. All bad luck though. The training methods and recovery techniques aren't the issue. ten Hag and his staff can't be blamed.

Villa, Spurs and Newcastle don't have better squads than us. They all lack depth in certain positions. But their mangers do perform beyond their means. You'd expect all three clubs to add more depth in the summer.

A United manager should be expected to manage at least 50 games a season. Being rewarded for failing to qualify for Europe at all would be hilarious. You can't look back on the past 14-15 months and not sack him. You just can't.