Either that, or only you and Ten Hag can see it. Even his biggest defenders do not agree with it becuse frankly, it's ridiculous. I take it also finishing dead last in an easy CL group was expected as well as he can't do better with this squad.
Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag
- Thread starter Nickelodeon
- Start date
For me, Ten Hag shall be sacked for the following reasons:
1. as a starter, he downplayed United's history to give himself leeway with his erroneous "back to back FA Cup final" remark and saying that "losing 4 league games since January is not a lot". It was the same thing Van Gaal ("United fans need to accept reality") and Mourinho ("I knocked out Man Utd in UCL a lot!") did before they left - psychologically distancing themselves from the club to protect their own stock. This alone shows a disrepect to our club is a sackable offence alone for me.
2. He is very slow at making changes when things don't go in out way in games - often stunned and petrified. It is not a quality for top managers. We rarely tactically outclassed our opponents in games, we usually win games with individual brillance only (from like of Rashford last season, McTominay, Bruno and Hojlund this season)
3. Our players are VERY poorly drilled and his end-to-end basketball tactic is very wrong.
4. His transfers are rubbish, often very nepotistic and myopic. Often obsessed with players he spotted in person in Eredivisie (Malacia, Antony, Onana Armabat and Mount), and his transfers make no sense (buying Mount, a player with similar profile with vdb, when vdb didn't work; signing Onana, whose biggest asset is playing out from the back, and then to scrap playing out from the back)
5. Very poor season management (like playing first XI against low division clubs after World Cup) and rotation
1. as a starter, he downplayed United's history to give himself leeway with his erroneous "back to back FA Cup final" remark and saying that "losing 4 league games since January is not a lot". It was the same thing Van Gaal ("United fans need to accept reality") and Mourinho ("I knocked out Man Utd in UCL a lot!") did before they left - psychologically distancing themselves from the club to protect their own stock. This alone shows a disrepect to our club is a sackable offence alone for me.
2. He is very slow at making changes when things don't go in out way in games - often stunned and petrified. It is not a quality for top managers. We rarely tactically outclassed our opponents in games, we usually win games with individual brillance only (from like of Rashford last season, McTominay, Bruno and Hojlund this season)
3. Our players are VERY poorly drilled and his end-to-end basketball tactic is very wrong.
4. His transfers are rubbish, often very nepotistic and myopic. Often obsessed with players he spotted in person in Eredivisie (Malacia, Antony, Onana Armabat and Mount), and his transfers make no sense (buying Mount, a player with similar profile with vdb, when vdb didn't work; signing Onana, whose biggest asset is playing out from the back, and then to scrap playing out from the back)
5. Very poor season management (like playing first XI against low division clubs after World Cup) and rotation
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I said I think Ole will be the guy before a proper title challenging manager. Then we signed Ronaldo and couldn’t press anymore.
People love using "Klopp and Arteta got 8th" as an excuse which is a very rubbish one.
Klopp and Arteta got the 8th when they were trying to build some long-term highpress/possession tactics
ETH got 8th when he is trying his best to grind short-term results, the "end to end basketball" tactics is just a "short term fix" when he regards that our club lacks the players to implement a possession based tactic. I would have given him a leeway if we got 8th in the process of building a City-esque tactics, but it is a sheer incompetence when you are working for short term results (at the expense of long term development of the club) AND still get a very poor short term result
Klopp and Arteta got the 8th when they were trying to build some long-term highpress/possession tactics
ETH got 8th when he is trying his best to grind short-term results, the "end to end basketball" tactics is just a "short term fix" when he regards that our club lacks the players to implement a possession based tactic. I would have given him a leeway if we got 8th in the process of building a City-esque tactics, but it is a sheer incompetence when you are working for short term results (at the expense of long term development of the club) AND still get a very poor short term result
I think we cracked the code. Failing manager + Time = Sir Alex Ferguson.Ferguson 89-90 -1, did badly in the league but scraped through to the FA Cup final and then won it after a season rife with specualtion he was going to get sacked.
Just like Ten Hag this year, it's a sign.
Except you're just ignoring the facts. He regularly takes Mainoo off quite early and Hojlund isn't immune from substitution.
There's plenty of reasons to criticise Ten Hag, but asking for people to give a positive and then just making something up as a reason to counter, just seems like you're not even interested in hearing an alternative opinion or an answer to the question you asked.
I am a big ETH outer, and have wanted him out since the Bournemouth game. That said, people are now seriously willing to entertain the SOUTHGATE discussion. For me, that's a no-go. Southgate is not a United level manager. IF he's a serious option, then I'm seriously going to consider keeping ETH in for a season.
ETH can't be sacked until new CEO + DoF are fully up&running, obvious for me. Who will take the responsibility of recruiting new guy? Plus if we want a manager to think long term we can't be sacking managers every 2 seasons, or no other candidate will come with full focus on developing youth etc. knowing the owners want instant results. Between SJR comments about patience and Neville's latest change of heart towards ETH I think they're not sacking him this summer.
Well that's just 1 reason in a list of 5 and the least important so hardly worth focusing on
I don't think anyone is that attached to Ten Hag TBH, Ole and Jose had stronger supporters right until the bitter end - but the 2/3 year hire/fire cycle is definitely getting boring
It actually isn't made up, and was part of the report from the brazilian paper. That he maintains the same level of intensity in training thoughout the season regardless of fixtures. Also Hojlund is physically incapable of playing effectively past 70 minutes, we've seen that all season, and Mainoo is just a kid. Everyone else he runs into the ground.
What about ETH have you seen that suggests he's worth keeping?
Has he motivated the players?
Has he coached them to play a certain way?
Has he displayed tactical nous?
Has he made good signings?
Perhaps he's achieved good results?
In my opinion he's not done anything well. What is there to keep?
Has he motivated the players?
Has he coached them to play a certain way?
Has he displayed tactical nous?
Has he made good signings?
Perhaps he's achieved good results?
In my opinion he's not done anything well. What is there to keep?
yes to all, in his first season.
No one is expecting no injuries but a normal injury list relative to other teams doesn't seem an unreasonable expectation
If Ten Hag survives then he count himself lucky given the results so he won't get long to prove he was worth another chance - the new board will be fully in place by next season so in a better place to consider alternative managerial options if required
It's more about that there are no decision makers in place to make such a significant sporting decision
Ten Hag decided to terminate the Reguilon loan and also decided to loan Fernandez to Benfica, so clearly his decision making in this regard failed us from having adequate squad replacements in the event of injuries. He also decided that the injury-prone Mason Mount was worth investing in over an actual defensive midfielder who'd have helped and Mount has been a non-entity season and likely could be next one too if his injury history is an indication.
I don't think it is a binary decision between completely defensive football and leaving yourself fully open between midfield and defence which is pure chaos. We did some of it last season in the first half of it with some degree of control but presumably we've just decided to throw that out of the window out of arrogance. We shouldn't need to play completely defensive against teams like Crystal Palace and other bottom half teams - I can understand against some sides in the top 4 but there's no need to be completely open and unstructured against lower half teams and not be sensible.
We played hoofball that season too. Rashford being in the form of his life helped patch it up.
His first season is a prime example of a checkbook manager getting the bare minimum out of his squad budget. Even with that kind of spending, he lost in the quarters in Europa league and suffered terrible thrashings, including a 7-0 to Liverpool.
Except it's not. He broadly outperformed expectations, hitting 2 finals and getting a cup whilst coasting 8pts clear into the top 4.
Given the minority of fans and pundits had United in the top 4 at seasons start, it's very fair to say he overperformed.
Berrada is at City. There’s no CEO and no DoF.
We haven't played consistently well since the Carabao Cup final last season. Apart from the 4-1 win against an awful Chelsea side who were in disarray.
Sounds like a great plan. When you have a manager who cannot do anything right and make the club the laughing stock of football, the club owns him to sacrifice two seasons. In EtH we trust.
Don’t sack him, just put him in charge of the U21s and hire a new first team coach.
Let’s put the league position aside for once, because no big club with ambition would keep a coach finishing 8th in his second season after spunking 400 million in transfers.
From an on-field performance perspective, what is that one thing you see has been implemented successfully by him in his 2 year stint that has actually improved us.
I am genuinely curious to know this because I don’t see anything style wise or tactically that he has brought in that has made us better.
Our pressing is so shambolic and without rhyme or rhythm that most teams just run rings around us. Our passing out the back is as bad as it always was, and that’s why Onana has to go long so often.
I am struggling to think of one thing which I feel he has implemented to improve our performances.
Okay players that were here during mourinho onwards out.
But there are. We practically sacked the CEO, the director of football and the CFO (amongst many others) and the first two are higher in the hierarchy than EtH.
We are also gonna sign players and sell players, which have higher financial costs than replacing the managers.
When people complain that the other posters call them ‘cultists’ this is exactly what we mean. You keep making different rules for the manager to everyone else in the club. You probably don’t mind replacing half of the squad, but God forbid replacing the manager, he is beyond that and well, there is no one who can make such a decision before we get another few directors.
That’s the cult for you. The double standards where facts and performance works for everyone else, and the religion takes over when it comes to a single man.
Not even ETH pick his own players. Let ineos sign players that fit their new mould and ETH has to manage them. I expect them to have a better strategy in place than a manager picking who he wants.
He has to go
Ten Hag defenders have shifted to "but, but last season..." desperate times.
For me, the relevant question is who is actually available who would be more likely to succeed -- success now being merely making top four -- than ten Hag. And as it stands right now the list of candidates who fit that description is not impressive.
I would be open to bringing Carrick, but it would probably be a leap too far too soon for him. Other than Carrick, who's on no one's radar so it's presumably not in the cards, it's Southgate, Potter and Tuchel and for me only Tuchel merits consideration. But if Ancelotti were up for the challenge, of course. In other words, we may have no good choice but to keep ten Hag and let him prove that 23/24 was an aberration due to injuries, the chaos surrounding ownership fiasco and player bad behavior off the pitch.
I would be open to bringing Carrick, but it would probably be a leap too far too soon for him. Other than Carrick, who's on no one's radar so it's presumably not in the cards, it's Southgate, Potter and Tuchel and for me only Tuchel merits consideration. But if Ancelotti were up for the challenge, of course. In other words, we may have no good choice but to keep ten Hag and let him prove that 23/24 was an aberration due to injuries, the chaos surrounding ownership fiasco and player bad behavior off the pitch.
Mourinho onwards not only mourinho.
martial
Rashford
Sancho
Lingard
Maguire
Mctom
Awb
Shaw
Varane
loan and freebies can also go: ambrabat/eriksen.
that’s 11 players.
He won’t spit his dummy out at all selling those players, maybe he’d chose to keep dalot
There are tons of managers who would probably be doing a better job than EtH. The baseline is so low that any decent manager needs to basically try hard to do worse than what EtH has been doing.
It is a bit like saying let’s not replace Antony, who is right there that can do a better job than him. If someone like peak Best was available sure, but no peak Best so let’s keep Antony.
On the 400m point in isolation, I'm not blaming Ten Hag on money spent, because we've wasted money for a decade prior to him. I don't think *he* is the problem on transfers, because he should never have had the sole say in who we buy. We had clowns negotiating deals and it was a failure.
That being said, we can and should evaluate his efforts on the field and I'm in total agreement that we haven't just stood still this season, we've regressed massively. He's not tweaked or adapted to the injury crisis, he's not changed tactics which clearly don't work, and he hasn't salvaged enough games through his in-game substitutions. He needs to take ownership on that and despite an outperformance in year 1, his work this year is objectively sackable. Would I sack him? I'm on the fence, tilting toward not doing so. But I certainly don't argue against anyone who thinks he should go. I totally get it.
We joke but it seems like some people really think that way.
I'm not in the Ten Hag in camp personally, I think this season has been an epic fail and worthy of the sack. But I don't think anyone is saying he should be given the keys to old Trafford and a lifetime contact.
What's the term in poker called when you don't raise or fold, you just want to see the cards, a check? If Ineos just want to stand pat and see how some of these young managers get on while focusing on improving the playing staff then I don't think that is absolute lunacy. It might even be a mature decision that pays dividends.
What's the term in poker called when you don't raise or fold, you just want to see the cards, a check? If Ineos just want to stand pat and see how some of these young managers get on while focusing on improving the playing staff then I don't think that is absolute lunacy. It might even be a mature decision that pays dividends.
So keeping the current manager for a 3rd year would not be boring?
That reason is based in reality, he has developed them and brought them through. He has handled Mainoo well, Garnacho has been our best attacker at 19 and Hojlund did have a period in the season where he looked like the striker we were hoping for.
Exactly, he likely will have better options in the squad so he doesn't have to get booed when he subs Mainoo and Hojlund. Garnacho will likely be better next season and more robust.
It is made up that he hasn't developed them and they might get injured - he has actively protected them from fatigue and gets booed for. They might get injured with anyone, not sure how it's an argument against him when we'll be playing less games and hopefully a deeper squad.
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If he was told by medical staff they would both be back (which is what he has said is the case) then can you understand why that decision would be taken by the club. It’s not just a Ten Hag choice and already money was tight with P&S rules.
Mason Mount was not injury prone prior to purchase that is revisionist.
Rice should have been bought instead of Casemiro.
I don’t think we’re throwing out of the window for arrogance it’s likely we know that playing like that will never lead to titles. You have to also consider the context of what we have regularly available. I don’t think it’s too crass for me to say our defence hasn’t existed as a unit all season. That is going to severely disrupt how we build up, how we try to press higher and therefore we’re never going to fix it with the level of injury we have. You need a degree of consistency see Arsenal for reference.
We also weren’t even particularly open and unstructured against Palace. We had Casemiro and Evans playing at CB against players with pace and power. The goals we conceded early came from that mismatch.
And they seemingly forget we took some absolute batterings last season, including 7-0 v Liverpool.
There was a 2month purple patch where it seemed like we'd "got it" but the season was basically propped up by Rashford, Casemiro and Martinez having superb spells.
All 3 have basically been a total bust this season for different reasons and we've instead relied on Bruno recently, and the McTom / Maguire combo that almost everyone, including Ten Hag wanted shipped off last summer.
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Also @Atheist if you consider Ten Hag was told he’d have both players back. From a tactical point of view is there anything the bold you disagree with?
He didn't terminate it, the loan expired and they chose not to extend it, that was at least partly because the medical team who said that Malacia would be back and with Shaw also being 'available' a 3rd LB wasn't needed, Fernandez was loaned out at the start of the season and that was clearly the right decision at the time