This lads right footed, derren brown doesn't do too badly predicting where he's going to shoot.
United's penalty-takers
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This lads right footed, derren brown doesn't do too badly predicting where he's going to shoot.
Another classic thread. Since the Chief told Ciderman to go and do some homework I thought I'd have a quick look. This is probably just made up through right?
Palacios-Heurta (2003) -
"First, it will be shown that there is a perfect symmetry between left-footed and right-footed kickers. In fact, the hypothesis that the game is identical for left-footed and right-footed kickers, up to the appropriate renaming of the actions, will not be rejected."
"Data on 1417 penalty kicks have been collected during the period September 1995–June 2000 from professional games in Spain, Italy, England and other countries."
"As is clear, these two groups of kickers have different strong sides. Left-footed kickers shoot more often to the L.H.S. of the goalkeeper than to the R.H.S., whereas right-footed kickers shoot more often to the R.H.S. In the next section we will consider these to be their “natural sides” respectively, and choices will be renamed accordingly. Goalkeepers, in turn, tend to choose right more often than left when facing a right-footed kicker, and left more often than right when facing a left-footed kicker. Scoring rates are similar for the two player types for all penalties and for given score difference."
And just out of interest I found another journal paper which said that statistically penalties should always be taken in reverse order of ability.
There is no laterality in the success ratios - left footed and right footed strikers have the same success when the frequencies are represented as percentages.
Based on a statistical analysis of all the penalties from the 2002 World Cup and Champions League.
There's lies, damned lies and statistics.
But if you want to be 100% certain there's only The Chief*
Oh, and Kemo of course.
Has he even bothered to acknowledge either of these studies yet?
Nah, it's unbelievable! He's in the general right now saying that they PROVE his point!
Just read that thread. He's truly insane.
I suppose you could say he acknowledged the one I posted although I'm not really sure whether he read it, understood it or quite what he meant by:
I'm not sure whether he's agreeing with the conclusions of that study there or not, he might even be suggesting that it's something I dreamt up.
This thread's headed to the classics next time it stops.
you seem to have missed the studies presented in this thread that say you're talking out of your ass again, see post #282, where someone else has tried to bring to your attention those evidence.
Hehe.
The Chief's been comedy dynamite in this thread from start to finish.
As has Ciderman mind, but for the right reasons.
The Chief's been comedy dynamite in this thread from start to finish.
As has Ciderman mind, but for the right reasons.
Do you actually read anything people post? Or just mouth of what the hell you feel? That study shows several things I've said that are true. Like the fact left footers are not in anyway inferior to right footers as penalty takers.
Wouldn't left footed players, being "easier to read" in your own words, be inferior penalty takers?
but where do those studies say that left-footers are more predictable or readable in their penalty taking, the main assertion you initially made?
You are not serious the studies they posted agree with me.
1) I said left footers even though their penalties are more predictable, they are not inferior penalty takers. The study proves they are not inferior
2) I said penalties are not a lottery and pressure is not a great factor ind determining who wins penalty shoot outs. The study confirms that their are optimal methods of training to win a penalty shout out and doesn't site pressure as a major factor.
3) Another study posted in this thread, taken from a larger sample size than world cup penalties showed that left footers tend to miss a bit more than right footers. Tying in with my statements about their penalties being predictable and their method of taking penalties.
Why are you ignoring all these things? How many should tally with what I'm saying before you actually admit I know what I'm talking about. How can you claim I'm "ignoring" those reports. Or call me insane when the majority of the things are argeeing with most of the things I've been saying? Please explain that to me.
Chief, what i'm trying to understand is how, if left footers are more predictable, are they not inferior penalty takers?
Being predictable is surely a disadvantage, and if there is a disadvantage then stats will prove it over time in right footers favour. Which they haven't.
Being predictable is surely a disadvantage, and if there is a disadvantage then stats will prove it over time in right footers favour. Which they haven't.
You have no evidence that left footers are more successful penalty takers than right footed ones.
Chief, do you have selective vision?
you have made quite a few contradictions to your other statements in this post alone, but I'll tell you what you're ignoring teh most;
you've failed to say where these studies agree with your main assertion that left footers' penalties are more predictable. Hope this is clear.
It's not hard to understand is it? Just because I know what your going to doesn't mean I will succeed in stopping you does it? Look at big team like Arsenal plays. We all know how they will play from match to match. Their style practically doesn't change from game to game! Yet how often do teams actually stop them when they are on form? Even though they know exactly what Arsenal will do through out the game and season?
That's just wrong. Being predictable in penalties isn't a disadvantage. Neither will it reflect on a small penalty taking sample size like that at world cups. Because if the ball is truck fast enough, and accurately, the keeper can know where it's going all day with out ever keeping it out. This shouldn't be a hard thing to grasp or accept. After all How many times have we seen keepers go the right way and never keep the ball out?
That is why the study on world cup shoot outs proves left footers are not inferior to right footers in penalty taking. But the study taken from a larger sample size like several leagues from several countries shows the slight difference in scoring rate. That difference accounts for the predictability I talked about. Plus the method in which left footers actually take their penalties. Going for placement rather than mere power like the majority of right footers.
Good question Cornell, let's see what the Rubberman thinks:
Basically, left footers are more predictable and easier to read but they are not inferior penalty takers. But a study shows that they miss more than right footers and so are inferior but this only proves that they are easier to read, not that they are inferior penalty takers.
And he knows this because he descends from the race that are masters of the art of penalty taking and he's done the research himself, so don't even question this statement of fact!
That's bollocks. I have not made single contradiction. My statements on penalties haven't changed. They largely coincide with everything that report said. You are just burying your head in the sand like an ostrich and refusing to admit this.
This is really a joke. That report can't say anything on my main assertion. Because they never tallied any data on how many times the keeper actually followed the direction of the ball succesfully, with or with out stopping it and how many times that occurred when facing left or right footers. Neither did they present any data on how frequently left or right footers chose to strike the ball in a particular direction.
Err that example is a bit shit there Chief. Stopping an entire team from playing football on a huge pitch with 11 players is entirely different to stopping a penalty.
Yes it fecking is! Louis Saha, last season took all his penalties to the left of the keeper. Boruc figured him out and saved Saha's penalty in the game at Celtic Park.
What?!?
Are you kidding me? It's all to do with the player, and the individual penalty. How do you back up such a statement?
why the feck should I have selective vision?
you haven't made any contradiction? so saying that a report shows left footers miss more than right footers and, are thus inferior, proves they're more predictable but not inferior? You seriously don't see the contradiction in there?
your main assertion that left footers are more predictable penalty takers is bullshit, that's why the article doesn't even bother proving that nonsense.
That's bollocks and you know it. The examples of predictability tally nicely with each other. They prove being predicable doesn't equate to being easily stoppable. A penalty is a penalty because the keeper's chances of stopping it are very minimal. So him knowing where it is headed wont increase his chances of stopping it one bit. That is pretty obvious and the chief reason why many keepers go the right way and even get a hand to a penalty with out ever keeping it out.
Boruc only saved the penalty simply because Saha never hit it hard enough. Not because he knew where it was headed. That should have been pretty obvious. What? Are you the one kidding me? Did I talk about the "individual penalty"? and connect it to the player too? Can you back that up?
Probably the most stupid thing I've ever read
"But I was thinking about the last one he scored against me and I thought he might do the same thing, that's what was on my mind."
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/276048.aspx
Saha hit a predictable penalty, which proved to be a disadvantage.
Because the isn't one. Being predictable does not equal being easily stoppable. That should be as simple as ABC to understandyou haven't made any contradiction? so saying that a report shows left footers miss more than right footers and, are thus inferior, proves they're more predictable but not inferior? You seriously don't see the contradiction in there?
Rather what is bull shit is the logic you are using. That report was not designed to collect data in any way that would factor in predictability. But this is too hard a concept for you to grasp. Because you've always been a moron.
fecking hell
You change your fecking tune with every post.
No one said they were easy to save. I am saying taking a predictable penalty is definately a disadvantage.
Come on. FFS! Did you not see Saha hit that penalty with out enough power? Do you need Boruc's analysis of how he made the save to tell you that? Look at Ronaldo's penalty on Sunday. Twice he hit the ball on the very side Lehmann expected him to and on both occasions Lehmann got no way near it. Because Ronaldo hit it perfectly! If that alone can't tell you knowing where a penalty is headed and stopping it don't go hand in hand nothing ever will.
Changing his tune is the only tactic he's got left.
A predictable penalty results in more misses which he actually agrees with and uses in a 'study' to prove his main assertion, but that doesn't make the penatly taker inferior, nor does that constitute a contradiction
Come on people, read the thread.
Chief changes his argument to suit the people he's arguing against, i.e. not to agree with them but to piss them off even more.
Hat's off to you Chief, you are an evil genius.
But possibly still just insane
Chief changes his argument to suit the people he's arguing against, i.e. not to agree with them but to piss them off even more.
Hat's off to you Chief, you are an evil genius.
But possibly still just insane
FFS if they are AT a disadvantage as you claim then surely their penalties MUST be easier to save. Which is exactly what you are saying. While I have consistently maintained from the start that their being more predictable when taking penalties doesn't mean their are inferior penalty takers. Because it doesn't guarantee the keeper will get to keep out their penalty. It's clearly you who wants to change his tune and not me.
Of course I don't. I just came up with a hypothesis, that's all. A plausible one, mind you, and one that is based upon some objective evidence (i.e. the study which highlights that left-footed players are more likely to shoot to the keeper's left)
Not only do you lack any objective evidence, the fecking hypothesis you put forward seems to change on a daily basis.
Just to clarify, are you trying to tell us that someone who is left-footed is less likely to score from a penalty than someone who is right-footed?
A simple yes or no would help us all understand what the feck you're going on about.
Ideally
Ronaldo
Tevez
Rooney
Saha
Hargreaves
Ronaldo
Tevez
Rooney
Saha
Hargreaves
Ferdinand
then Scholes...
then Scholes...
To be fair to the Chief I've just looked back through the thread and he never said anything (that I could find) about scoring the penalty, just about reading the direction of the kick.
Correct, but here he says:
So he's essentially saying that left footers missing more than right footers in that study, prove that their penalties are more predictable. But that doesn't prove they're inferior
I don't agree with with much of what you've said Chief.
I'm arguing why if you think left footers are easier to read (Which I don't think they are), then they aren't inferior penalty takers.
If a goalkeeper knew Ronaldo was going bottom left every time, you'd see more shots saved than are now.
If a penalty is easier to read it is easier to save. There's just no arguing with this. Unless you're made of rubber.
That's just utter bollocks. Most of what you've said is not remotely plausible. Like your ridiculous assertion that left footers are more likely to score a penalty. A thing a study posted in this thread already shows is clear rubbish. Yet you are trying to pass sit of as "plausible" and "objective evidence" My foot
Besides. I haven't changed a single thing I've said in this thread from the very start till now. While you keep posting all sorts of adhoc hypotheses which studies posted in this thread hardly back you up on. On top of blatantly lying that my what I post is changing.
No.
then tell us Poque, why keepers don't keep out every penalty whose direction they correctly follow?
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