Ciderman, I find you absolutely hilarious when ranting about the Rubberman.
Long may it continue.
Long may it continue.
United's penalty-takers
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So in conclusion we have figured that foot preference doesnt really effect penalty taking at all. Much more down to the person taking the penalty than the foot used.
Only over 350 posts to come to this startling conclusion
Only over 350 posts to come to this startling conclusion
That can never be. Because as long as the taker does his job and hits the penalty properly you as a keeper will never keep it out. Whether you follow its direction correctly or get a hand to it. Penalties more often than not are only saved because of a mistake by the taker. Not due to goal keeping brilliance.
What proportion of penalties do you think go exactly where the person taking the penalty intends them to go?
I assume you'll have an answer, this does seem to an area in which you've done an awful lot of research.
That may well be true, but penalties are saved. It may be down to the kicker fecking up and not hitting it accurately enough, but penalties can be saved if the 'keeper goes in the right direction.
But if the 'keeper goes in the wrong direction, then even a poorly-taken penalty will still go in (like Carrick's in the Charity Shield shootout).
So, yes, with perfectly taken penalties it doesn't matter if the 'keeper goes in the right direction. But a lot of penalties arn't perfectly taken, giving the 'keeper a chance to save it -- which he can only do if he goes in the right direction.
Chief, why don't you just use the stats from the study I posted to back up your argument......
Or post something that contradicts them......
Or something that is not based on opinion.
Otherwise you're just making yourself look like someone who is arguing for the sake of it.
Or post something that contradicts them......
Or something that is not based on opinion.
Otherwise you're just making yourself look like someone who is arguing for the sake of it.
That woudlnt have changed a thing. Since the method used to come up with that statement has been roundly condemned by all against the statement. Thus any data collected from it would have been rendered useless in the eyes of every single one who has risen to oppose that statement, if used in a bid to convince them of it's validity. What I'm sure of is people don't care about the truth of the statement. As far as they are concerned because I said it, it is wrong. If some one else had said it there wouldn't be this ruckus.......
Fair enough. I appologise for misreading you
Yes. Almost always due to feck ups by the taker. That is why when I insist, being able to predict the direction in which a penalty is going to be taken doesn't make it any easier to stop. As long as the taker does his job properly. That is why I say having a predictable way of taking a penalty doesn't make you an inferior penalty taker or more likely to have your penalty saved. Because if you always aim for the top corner, for example, the keeper can try forever to stop your penalties, if that were possible, without ever registering any success.
That is all absolutely true and irrefutable.
I reject that because it is utter bollocks. Any one who has ever taken a penalty or tried to save one knows that for sure.
feck me...
Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you, the ramblings of a mad man...
What foot do you use for penalties chief considering your two footed n all?
The majority. What stops a penalty from entering is usually all down to the taker alone. Either he doesn't use enough power, hits it where the keeper is or at him, plain miss hits it, or simply misses the target. Due to falling to keep focus. If he keeps his focus, the keeper could as well not even bother being in the goal. Because he will never keep it out. No matter how hard he tries . Whether he can accurately read where it will be hit or not.
Both. Unpredictable - not that it matters because, I think, according to the latest edition here's how it breaks down -
He wouldn't trust his left foot so he'd use his right because it gives him more variety in positioning the ball. As we all know left footed pens are easier to predict.
But wait a minute - maybe he'd use his left because, as we all know, being able to predict the direction of the penalty has no relation to successfully scoring it.
As someone who has done a bit of goalkeeping coaching in my time I can confirm that there is NOTHING suggesting that left footers or right footers are more likely to score penalties.
As a keeper you have to know which foot they're using of course, but you can tell this from the run up.
A shit penalty taker, whichever foot they use, will tell a keeper which side the ball is going by the engle of their hips just before they strike the ball.
Shit takers also favour directing their penalties in the direction of their favoured foot (eg a right footer will favour hitting it to their right).
A good penalty taker will be happy either side and will disguise their hip angle to confuse the keeper.
Oh, and shit keepers also have a favoured side to dive. But it's not based on whether they are right or left footed.
As a keeper you have to know which foot they're using of course, but you can tell this from the run up.
A shit penalty taker, whichever foot they use, will tell a keeper which side the ball is going by the engle of their hips just before they strike the ball.
Shit takers also favour directing their penalties in the direction of their favoured foot (eg a right footer will favour hitting it to their right).
A good penalty taker will be happy either side and will disguise their hip angle to confuse the keeper.
Oh, and shit keepers also have a favoured side to dive. But it's not based on whether they are right or left footed.
So it's fair to say that chief is the best penalty taker in the history of the world ever and always will be? FACT
This is where it all begins to unravel...
'Hits it where the keeper is'? Wouldn't that be because the keeper has dived the correct way?
Unless you mean the minimal times when the keeper doesn't move and the striker twats it right down the middle?
eh? that really doesn't make sense at all.
Obviously that is what I meant.
That's not a surprise. Nothing ever makes sense to you except "Wes Brown is a god".
It depends on the circumstances. There are thing I can do with my left which my right can't do & vice versa.
This is fecking Madness.
RUBBERMAN
The vast majority of penalties are not perfectly taken - FACT
Penalties which are not perfectly taken can go in - FACT
If the goalkeeper knows which direction a penalty is going in, he will have a good chance of saving it if it is not perfectly taken - FACT
If a goalkeeper goes the wrong way, he will have a very low chance of saving the penalty, perfectly taken or not - FACT
Therefore it is of benefit to the goalkeeper to know where the penalty is going, and so penalty takers who are easier to read would score less penalties.
Left Footed players do not score less penalties proportionately.
Therefore they are not easier to read.
This should be an end to it
RUBBERMAN
The vast majority of penalties are not perfectly taken - FACT
Penalties which are not perfectly taken can go in - FACT
If the goalkeeper knows which direction a penalty is going in, he will have a good chance of saving it if it is not perfectly taken - FACT
If a goalkeeper goes the wrong way, he will have a very low chance of saving the penalty, perfectly taken or not - FACT
Therefore it is of benefit to the goalkeeper to know where the penalty is going, and so penalty takers who are easier to read would score less penalties.
Left Footed players do not score less penalties proportionately.
Therefore they are not easier to read.
This should be an end to it
The majority, eh? But not all.
So for those minority of kicks where the ball doesn't go exactly where he wants it, any keeper who reads the intended direction has a reasonable chance of making a save. A feck of a lot better than a keeper who doesn't read them anyway.
Therefore, if a keeper reads the direction of a penalty kick he is more likely to save it than one which he doesn't predict.
Christ, Chief, surely you're not really as thick as this thread is making you look? Why don't you concede this point?
feck me...
Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you, the ramblings of a mad man...
the only mad man around is you and your kind Pogue. Trying to promote as fact an idea that does not obey any of the laws that govern the art and science of penalties.suck my balls you two-team bellend.
What idea is that then?
The concept that it's easier to save a penalty when you read which side of the goal it is heading?
I'm a goal-keeper, Chief, and I assure you that this is as close as you will ever get to a FACT in any discussion about football.
Wrong
True
True
Infact he will have no chance
Wrong. Because the vast majority of penalties are taken porperly. That is why there are not that many misses
You posted a study that claimed otherwise
Being easier to read and conversion rate a largely to disconnected things. The only thing that connects them is the practical fact that left footers tend to place they penalties rather than rely on power like most right footers
I hope it is.
Prove it
He could save it with his foot
Prove it
That wasn't real, I was taking the piss, I completely made it up.
Even assuming they are largely disconnected things, if they are not totally disconnected, there would be some difference in the conversion rate if left footers were easier to read.
How stupid can you become Pogue? Seriously? You now want to use the small minority of penalties that are miss hit to actually validate your bollocks argument? When the majority of penalties taken actually show you are talking clear rubbish?
Jesus Wept. For sure The only one looking thick is you Pogue! You are trying desperately to validate a weak argument as a fact based on the small minority of penalties that are miss hit. You must really think everyone reading this thread was born yesterday.It only has an influence if the penalty taker doesn't take the penalty properly. I fail to see how anyone can dare argue against that fact
The humor value here is intense .
Rubberman, seriously, are you on medication?
.Rubberman, seriously, are you on medication?
I can't decide if the Chief is the best thing to ever happen to the Cafe, or the worst.
I don't have to. The vast majority of penalties taken are actually scored. Unless the English national team is involved
Not if it is hit properly. Prove it[/quote
Over large sample size the difference would be there. But over a small sample size like penalty shoot outs at a world cup, the difference should not even exist. Those stats in the other report confirm this
How many times did that happen in your study Chief? I know how many in the study I'm using.
And why aren't you replying to my posts fully?
How large is large. I don't know, say about 1500?
I don't have to. They already support a number of things I've repeatedly stated in this thread. Like left footers not being inferior penalty takers to right footers for example.
Rubberman, stop posting for a few minutes and take some time to absorb the fact that not one person on here agrees with you, not ONE. Now, baring that in mind, that EVERYBODY is telling you that you're wrong, take a few moments to ponder your position. ok? Everybody is telling you that you are wrong, and there's a fair few of us. I know you think that we're ALL stupid, but try and put that to the back of your mind for a second. For the sake of argument, try and entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, we're not all stupid, and maybe your 'research' was somehow flawed. Now i'm guessing you know a little about odds and probability, you know a bit about that right? So, bearing in mind that there are two possible situations here, namely;
1) You are right, and EVERYONE else is stupid and we've all got it wrong.
Or...
2) You've got it wrong this time, and everyone else, the WHOLE caf, are not all idiots, and we're right.
Can you picture the chances of those two possibilities, Chief?
Now, you're doing well here, i think we may be making some progress, but to be sure i want you to just answer one little question for me. ok? Give it your best shot:-
Which is the more likely? Possibility number 1, or possibility number 2?
1) You are right, and EVERYONE else is stupid and we've all got it wrong.
Or...
2) You've got it wrong this time, and everyone else, the WHOLE caf, are not all idiots, and we're right.
Can you picture the chances of those two possibilities, Chief?
Now, you're doing well here, i think we may be making some progress, but to be sure i want you to just answer one little question for me. ok? Give it your best shot:-
Which is the more likely? Possibility number 1, or possibility number 2?
They contradicted the predictability claim though didn't they.
If anyone else is getting as frustrated as I am, feel free to print this out and hang it on your nearest brick wall...
I also know how many in mine. But there is no way in hell I'm going to post them just to have people like you tell me how I cooked the data. You can perish that thought right now.
You want a 9 page address or what?Dear God, you're not seriously trying to tell us you've run a formal study into this?
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