United under LvG: verdict so far!

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Adebesi said:
It's kind of funny if you think about it. To punish a player who kept drifting our of position looking for the ball, and putting Rooney, of all people, in his place - the player famed for his tendency to pop up everywhere on the pitch, and who is only now being praised for eliminating that tendency from his own game.

I agree tho, with pretty much everything you said. I think the penny really dropped for this team when Herrera figured out what he was meant to be doing. Seems like everything fell into place after that.
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Yeah I know, right? The irony. But I guess LvG proved his point.
 
Loon said:
What's Van Gaal's historical transfer record like? Just curious if he uncovered any Worldies outside of Barca youth system?
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Not too impressed with that. Had some excellent buys with Ajax (Litmanen, Finidi, Kanu, Overmars, Bogarde, Reiziger), but also a few failed ones. At Barca he tried to copy Ajax too much, and bought a lot of the same players once again. At AZ he did all right but didn't follow through on his biggest buy (Pelle). At Bayern he showed his eye for level isn't that good, he bought Braafheid and Pranjic, good players, also the right type of player, but they couldn't step up to the required level and were quite harmless against stronger opposition.

Off course every manager has is failed buys, but LvG isn't a genius at buying players. I think he has two clear weak points in that, first the estimate whether a player has the abilities to step up to higher level, an extra gear so to speak. If he trains with players himself he can see that, but if he has to watch them from distance he gets it wrong sometimes. The other is his soft spot for poachers and out and out finishers, they don't really fit in his system generally, imo he thinks too much about the goals they can add, and forgets about how much they tend to disrupt the fluency and positioning and how much goals from midfield they tend to cost.
 
Adebesi said:
I agree tho, with pretty much everything you said. I think the penny really dropped for this team when Herrera figured out what he was meant to be doing. Seems like everything fell into place after that.
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Interestingly enough, since then, we've very minimal rumors linking us to CM's. I still think we'll buy a player or two towards that position but looking at the transfer rumors the priorities seem to an RB, a CB and a forward.
 
Adebesi said:
It's kind of funny if you think about it. To punish a player who kept drifting our of position looking for the ball, and putting Rooney, of all people, in his place - the player famed for his tendency to pop up everywhere on the pitch, and who is only now being praised for eliminating that tendency from his own game.

I agree tho, with pretty much everything you said. I think the penny really dropped for this team when Herrera figured out what he was meant to be doing. Seems like everything fell into place after that.
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Rooney's problem was coming deep to look for the ball when he was playing as a striker, which is something he's getting praise for eliminating from his game.

When he wasn't playing as a striker, though, he's always been very disciplined. Examples being the shifts he put in out wide in CL games under Fergie. That's why all three of our most recent managers have been happy to play him in a number of different roles. They wouldn't do that if he didn't have any positional discipline.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Rooney's problem was coming deep to look for the ball when he was playing as a striker, which is something he's getting praise for eliminating from his game.

When he wasn't playing as a striker, though, he's always been very disciplined. Examples being the shifts he put in out wide in CL games under Fergie. That's why all three of our most recent managers have been happy to play him in a number of different roles. They wouldn't do that if he didn't have any positional discipline.
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Neville summed it up perfectly saying LVG will prob view Rooney's game against City as his best since he got here. Only 36 touches, his least this year for us, yet pulled that city defence from one side to the other the whole game.
 
tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Excellent post in my opinion
 
tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Excellent post, 100% correct.
 
Yup. Dirkey pretty much killed it with that post. The guy had a plan from a start and it's still on the table and it's heading into probably right direction with it's own pace and reasoning behind it.

Let's face it. This season is a one big transition with space for experimenting to create more varieties and stability for next season when we'll kick on with much bigger and better squad.
 
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tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Great post, very nicely summarized.
 
tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Very will said; I share a similar set of thoughts. Many failed to see this, at the time, even though LvG stated that he needed three months before out players began fully understanding the philosophy. Given that we had a ridiculous amount of injuries, you'd have expected that we'd be a more fluid team 5 or 6 months into the season. And it's exactly the case, we began seeing shades of cohesion by the Swansea game, and we haven't looked back since. Patience is well and truly a virtue.
 
tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Great post indeed.
 
tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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someone should sticky this in every thread that doubts the man. Great post. I Share your exact sentiments.
 
Thanks guys. Glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks that way.

Just another thing to add. As far back as Jan, we were already top 4 in the league with the 3rd/4th best defence in the league playing with 3 centerbacks.

Luck might factor into 1 game. Or 2 games or 3 games. But throughout a season? Form is temporary. Class is permanent.
 
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tombombadil said:
Thanks guys. Glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks that way.

Just another thing to add. As far back as Jan, we were already top 4 in the league with the 3rd/4th best defence in the league playing with 3 centerbacks.

Luck might factor into 1 game. Or 2 games or 3 games. But throughout a season? Form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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That was a great post from you, Tom. One thing many failed to notice during our period back then was that, even under the poor performances, the players were trying to play to van Gaal's methods. Even if we were poor in terms of our performance, we still had a set structure and a way of playing, and that was why we got so many of our results. That way of playing, that structure that van Gaal embedded into the team since the beginning, still contributed to our results even when our players were still adapting and adjusting to it. Plus, even back then, we'd change our shape several times during the match, shifting from a back 3 to a back 4 very fluidly, which really surprised me as we've rarely changed our shape like this since Sir Alex adopted a more rigid setup.

There was always a method to van Gaal's apparent "madness", and that's what made me faithful to van Gaal throughout the reign. The fact that he played 2 strikers up front in the 3-5-2 made sense to me. The back 3 also made sense to me. All of his decisions had good reasons behind them which, at one point or another, didn't always come to fruition, but in the end, here we are, and I really love the way van Gaal has set us up systematically defensively and going forward.
 
Mali_Zeus said:


Someone who is good at it should make this one with our players. @Olly?

Also, this never gets old:

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tombombadil said:
Just a little something I had to get off my chest.

LvG has said from the start that his favorite formation is 4-3-3 because it suits his philosophy the best.
LvG has said that he was forced to play 3-5-2 because not only is the team unable to play his philosophy yet, but also because we were playing with only 1 fit proper defender for months at a time. So he needed the extra defender to reduce risk of conceding goals.
LvG has also said that playing with 2 strikers and 1 number 10 allowed him to try and experiment to fit in our best players in their best positions (Falcao, RvP and Rooney). He has since abandoned that idea.
LvG has said that he sees Rooney as a striker but was forced to play Rooney in midfield because he needs someone who has the discipline to play according to his philosophy, which in hindsight, was presumably a message to Herrera.
Herrera himself has admitted in recent interviews that he was kept out because he kept looking for the ball instead of staying in position. He understands the philosophy now and is therefore playing more often now.
With herrera back, Rooney has been restored as a striker.

LvG has his own reasons for doing what he does and they were reasonable at that point in time. He doesn't need some internet warrior to tell him what to do. Not to mention the fact that almost everything most internet warriors are moaning about are wrong anyway.

We are 3rd in the league. We have the third best attack and second best defence in the league. How people keep saying LvG f-ed up the defence with 3 defenders or f-ed up our attack with the wrong formation is ridiculous. We are where we are because of him. Not in spite of him. He took some time to adapt, but everything he did, was for a good reason and he even took the trouble to explain himself numerous times.

The first thing he fixed was the defence. By November, we went back to a 3 man defence and were no longer shipping goals. Next was improving our possession and control of matches. By January, we kept possession even when teams pressed us and had total control over most games, barring the odd individual errors. The last piece was penetration and scoring goals. Now that most players are back and the team can play his philosophy comfortably, he was able to switch back to a back 4. After Herrera came back, eventually he was able to use his favorite 4-3-3 (albeit a modified version, as when we lose the ball, it's more of a 4-1-4-1) to start fixing our attack. And now the goals are pouring in.

Everything he has done, can be seen with a purpose. He did not luck it on most things we have achieved this season. As the saying goes, form is temporary. Class is permanent.
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Excellent post. Exactly what i have been saying so far except less eloquently.

Unlike other managers, LVG has actually been very upfront with the press and fans in explaining his methods. It is almost as if some fans want to believe he is crap and would rather believe LVG stumbled upon a winning formula than to accept that he has been experimenting and after a good period of time, has reached an understanding of what can work. Bear in mind, if we have CL next year I can see more experimentation.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Stop Playing a back three- check.
Stop playing three strikers - check.
Stop playing Rooney in midfield- check.
Stop grudge against Herrera - check.

All the things we spent 3/4 of the season moaning about Finally eradicated.
I'm not discrediting Lvg because the belief , confidence and attitude the team are playing with will have come from a lot of what he does.
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We wouldn't be in the position we are in now if he hadn't played all those things, three strikers excluded.
 
If we play like that next season, we'll win the league. Maybe we'll play even better, provided that we sign top players and AdM stays and shows what he is capable of.
 
Thought he got the line-up completely wrong today, and the subs.

Still think how much he's improved our players is great though.

Here's his post-match interview...

 
JUPITER said:
Thought he got the line-up completely wrong today, and the subs.

Still think how much he's improved our players is great though.

Here's his post-match interview...

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:lol: Jesus that was so awkward. I'm surprised how frustrated Louis is, but it's nice to see.
 
Expression of someone who clearly gives a feck about the club. The loss hurts but at least there's a proper reaction to that.

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He clearly mad :devil:
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
:lol: Jesus that was so awkward. I'm surprised how frustrated Louis is, but it's nice to see.
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I'm glad that he's pissed off, it's unclear at what - the game played out exactly as most people expected when the starting line-ups were announced.

Is he unhappy at the players? His own tactical mistakes? The ref? Mourinho's shitty (but successful) tactics?

Maybe just at losing a big game, and I like that.
 
JUPITER said:
I'm glad that he's pissed off, it's unclear at what - the game played out exactly as most people expected when the starting line-ups were announced.

Is he unhappy at the players? His own tactical mistakes? The ref? Mourinho's shitty (but successful) tactics?

Maybe just at losing a big game, and I like that.
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He's said he was proud of the players, maybe they could have done things better, but he was pleased with the effort put it and I agree with that.
 
Not his fault our attack was gash and couldn't open chelsea up.

His subs were awful though and we played right into their hands.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
He's said he was proud of the players, maybe they could have done things better, but he was pleased with the effort put it and I agree with that.
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Yeah, I can't fault them. I think he got it wrong though, maybe that's what he's pissed off at deep down...?

Oh well, after the majestic victories over Liverpool and City I'm far from bothered really.
 
JUPITER said:
Yeah, I can't fault them. I think he got it wrong though, maybe that's what he's pissed off at deep down...?

Oh well, after the majestic victories over Liverpool and City I'm far from bothered really.
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As long as we go on another winning run, I am not bothered either.
 
JUPITER said:
Thought he got the line-up completely wrong today, and the subs.

Still think how much he's improved our players is great though.

Here's his post-match interview...

Click to expand...

What the lineup should have been?

Dont know why people think subs were bad, we needed sthing different in attack and he tried it. Maybe Falcao should have been subbed off, that's true, and Shaw couldnt last the whole game.
 
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