United under LvG: verdict so far!
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
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I expect LVG will be marching into Woody's office soon demanding that Wings be made our new Chinese food sponsor.
I think you're massively underestimating the relationship these 2 have. They might not agree on all football matters, but they have alot of respect for each other on a personal level. And professionally Mourinho feels indebted to Van Gaal and sees him as his mentor, while Van Gaal feels Mourinho has surpassed him. Van Gaal lost that CL final to Mourinho, but nothing changed between them. An example of the respect between the two. Last year with the FWA tribute gala for Mourinho, Van Gaal flew over to speak in honour of Mourinho, and actually made Mourinho cry while doing so.
Thought of the day, having watched that dogsheet QPR vs Chelsea game, then later watched our orgasmic display vs City, for the first time I'm feeling a lot less upset that we missed out on Mourinho.
What i love about him is that he has everything so set out. This year top 4, next year champions, year after champions league winners. Albeit a couple of weeks ago i thought he wasn't up to it, but sinve the spurs game....wow!
I had the exact same thought today weirdly enough. Dare I say I feel more confident going into these big games under LVG than under SAF?
Can next season just start as soon as this one finishes? Please? 
We're on such a roll at the moment, and momentum is sky-high. If he season started tomorrow, I'd be banking on a title for us.
We're on such a roll at the moment, and momentum is sky-high. If he season started tomorrow, I'd be banking on a title for us.
Can next season just start as soon as this one finishes? Please?
We're on such a roll at the moment, and momentum is sky-high. If he season started tomorrow, I'd be banking on a title for us.
I just hope that we can replicate this form vs the weaker teams now that park the bus. That should be the next step.
We smashed Villa a week ago. The only time we struggle to break down small sides is when we play 3-5-2. Had we gone 4-3-3 in February we would be hunting down Chelsea, believe that.
Sir Alex on LVG - "When Van Gaal gets the best players back, you watch United, because he's a great coach; he'll do well"
You have to respect the guy as a coach. Rooney is playing better than he has in years, even when in midfield I thought he played with a lot more conviction and looked far more intelligent. He also doesn't look as heavy-legged this season, granted that may well be due to the lack of fixture-congestion but I think LVG has helped him.
Young and Fellaini - I won't go overboard as others have. Their form is at a much higher level, but both were that bad last season that I would've been shocked if they weren't better. However, recent big game performances suggest they could yet have longer United careers than we expected. Fair play to them, and credit to LVG for working on them.
Carrick - Finally deployed in what is the best role for him. The base of a midfield three, supporting our defence and launching attacks. It's been a while, he's done it before but the years of being the legs for Scholes and Giggs when he isn't a great runner, along with the shambles last season shows the LVG knows how to use players effectively. It's not a revolutionary move, but credit where it's due - van Gaal again showing he knows what he's doing.
Mata - In and out of the team at times this season, but it looks as if he's really bought into the philosophy. It didn't work in his so called favoured no.10 role in the 3-5-2. It didn't work as a CM in a 4-1-4-1 but giving him freedom to do what he pleases from the right working with his pal Herrera, it's given him the lease of life needed to really kickstart his United career. Having a great ending to the season. Still wouldn't surprise me if he was one of those sacrificed this summer, but it looks as though LVG has taken to him.
Smalling and Jones - They're not perfect yet, however we've waited 3 years to see them play as a CB pairing for more than one game. And you know what, it does work. Both can be sloppy in possession and indecisive - but Smalling's presence and Jones' last ditch heroic stuff makes for a nicely balanced partnership. Plenty to improve, but it's promising. I think this is down to LVG too. Rojo had been my top performer of the season until January, but Jones is a better defender - and they've obviously given him the belief to play on the left side of defence which he rarely did before LVG.
All in all, I think we refer back to Fergie's interview with Clare Balding where he says he's not bothered about the new players, it's about getting the squad that was together all fit and firing and blooding through the new players in preparation for the future so they get a feel for the league and become comfortable in the set up before hitting the ground running once they are acclimatised.
van Gaal has done a cracking job getting the core of the squad understanding his philosophy - De Gea, Smalling, Carrick and Rooney in particular. Blind, Herrera, Mata, Fellaini and Young obviously in there too, but getting that know-how and routine down the spine of the team was essential. It was something missing from the team last season, you never felt confident the players really understood what they were meant to be doing. And whilst some sympathise with Moyes losing his job, these guys need to have confidence in the manager otherwise it won't happen. No time for apologists and honesty, you need a clear plan and a clear structure.
You have to respect the guy as a coach. Rooney is playing better than he has in years, even when in midfield I thought he played with a lot more conviction and looked far more intelligent. He also doesn't look as heavy-legged this season, granted that may well be due to the lack of fixture-congestion but I think LVG has helped him.
Young and Fellaini - I won't go overboard as others have. Their form is at a much higher level, but both were that bad last season that I would've been shocked if they weren't better. However, recent big game performances suggest they could yet have longer United careers than we expected. Fair play to them, and credit to LVG for working on them.
Carrick - Finally deployed in what is the best role for him. The base of a midfield three, supporting our defence and launching attacks. It's been a while, he's done it before but the years of being the legs for Scholes and Giggs when he isn't a great runner, along with the shambles last season shows the LVG knows how to use players effectively. It's not a revolutionary move, but credit where it's due - van Gaal again showing he knows what he's doing.
Mata - In and out of the team at times this season, but it looks as if he's really bought into the philosophy. It didn't work in his so called favoured no.10 role in the 3-5-2. It didn't work as a CM in a 4-1-4-1 but giving him freedom to do what he pleases from the right working with his pal Herrera, it's given him the lease of life needed to really kickstart his United career. Having a great ending to the season. Still wouldn't surprise me if he was one of those sacrificed this summer, but it looks as though LVG has taken to him.
Smalling and Jones - They're not perfect yet, however we've waited 3 years to see them play as a CB pairing for more than one game. And you know what, it does work. Both can be sloppy in possession and indecisive - but Smalling's presence and Jones' last ditch heroic stuff makes for a nicely balanced partnership. Plenty to improve, but it's promising. I think this is down to LVG too. Rojo had been my top performer of the season until January, but Jones is a better defender - and they've obviously given him the belief to play on the left side of defence which he rarely did before LVG.
All in all, I think we refer back to Fergie's interview with Clare Balding where he says he's not bothered about the new players, it's about getting the squad that was together all fit and firing and blooding through the new players in preparation for the future so they get a feel for the league and become comfortable in the set up before hitting the ground running once they are acclimatised.
van Gaal has done a cracking job getting the core of the squad understanding his philosophy - De Gea, Smalling, Carrick and Rooney in particular. Blind, Herrera, Mata, Fellaini and Young obviously in there too, but getting that know-how and routine down the spine of the team was essential. It was something missing from the team last season, you never felt confident the players really understood what they were meant to be doing. And whilst some sympathise with Moyes losing his job, these guys need to have confidence in the manager otherwise it won't happen. No time for apologists and honesty, you need a clear plan and a clear structure.
Is this team now better than the one which won the title in Fergie's last season?
That really is great to see.
I like the way this team plays...better.
I agree.
Not only has LvG reversed the trend from the Moyes era, he's also taken us to a slightly higher level than we were at in 2013. And all in less than a season.
Not only has LvG reversed the trend from the Moyes era, he's also taken us to a slightly higher level than we were at in 2013. And all in less than a season.
LVG has restored SAF players back to title challenging form players. Yes Herrera, Mata, Blind and Fellaini have been excellent also but its good to see the players who many thought where past it or mid table quality like Carrick, Young, Smalling, Rooney etc playing good football again.
The problem with that team is that it was SO obvious it was a squad past its peak. Every week a result was grinded out, even against the weaker teams. Our closest rivals were all having issues of their own. The whole thing felt very lucky, and very much due to heroics of RvP and SAF.
This feels like the dawn of a great team that will only get better as new players are gradually brought in and the managerial philosophy continues to take hold.
Man City Ladies striker Toni Duggan (born in Liverpool) was there and took a photo with him and posted it on twitter. Safe to say it didn't go down well...
I think we are better but I'd like this team to win a title to see if we can handle the pressure before I can say for certain?
Classless bunch of toe-rags for that abuse. Don't they realise the male players are friends ?
There's a healthy dose of sexism at play there.
Thats pretty much my thoughts on the team so far.
Something else worth mentioning is our injury record. Whatever LVG has changed on the training ground, after the disaster of last season and even Fergie's latter years we've stopped picking up endless injuries. Yet we also look fitter than we have done in a long while.
Anyone know anything about his fitness methods?
Louis van Gaal was also a P.E. teacher during the time of his football career, so he surely knows quite a bit about player fitness. I'm sure he plans his training sessions out with his coaches and fitness team to make sure that our players remain as fit as possible.
Wow...is Rooney talking even more robotically because he's in a Chinese restaurant?
Bizarre clip.
I's sure he knows which knowledge he lacks, so he will have got the knowledge in, rather than relying on views on fitness from the seventies. For the WC, he had carefully planned the location of the hotels and timing of travel to manage the body's interaction with heat and altitude optimally for match fitness.
I'm so glad the team is finally clicking and producing winning football that is also entertaining to watch. I don't think we've ever dominated City/Liverpool the way we did these past few weeks in Ferguson's latter years. The memories I have from the past few derbies have always been them walking all over us while we fail to turn up. It can only get better from here as the players grow more and more accustomed to what LVG wants from them. The transition definitely took longer than I thought it would, as his previous stints at Barca and Bayern took him only until ~December before his players understood his playstyle. Nevertheless, better late than never. It's actually slightly bemusing to see how suddenly the team clicked, and the exponential improvement over the past few weeks. I can't wait for him to get in the players he personally wants instead of those recommended by scouts from the previous regime, and with a longer preseason, we should get off to a better start than this season.
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Exactly. I'm trying to avoid getting too carried away - not because I'm not delighted with how we are doing but just because things can change so quickly in football.
We have hit our best form for 3 years or more, but it's inevitable that at some point there will still be a setback. How we react at that point will be crucial - throughout Fergie's reign we could just put the occasional blip behind us, but right now we don't know how resilient our new-found confidence is.
I have to say I'm struggling to think of the last time we controlled a game quite like that against a good team, particuarly the way we wrestled the game back after the opposition started so well. Certainly nothing like that happened last season, and even in the 12-13 season we tended to win games against our main opponents through swift counter attacks rather than through dominating the general pattern of play.
The media are annoying me a little at the moment, for the last 4 games now they've still managed to harp on about how poor our opposition has been and how they haven't turned up. We seem to be getting little credit for making teams look bad. It must be hard work being on the wrong end of possessional dominance and having to deal with the movement of Rooney, Fellaini, Mata, Young and Herrera.
Funny thing, it seems the only players who didn’t progress under van Gaal are those who were considered as the best in the squad:
· Rooney (neither regress or progress, having a good season)
· van Persie (big regress but IMO he was misused)
· Falcao (hard to say what happened to him, just never looked like a player ready for this level)
· Di Maria (big big regress)
Obviously, what has happened to Radamel and Angel isn’t his fault, but the point stands.
He finally did the most obvious thing- put Carrick in a 3 man midfield, and surround him with mobile players good on the ball. It’s hard to understand that neither of Ferguson and Moyes did that before. Mata has been superb lately and kudos to van Gaal for finding him a new role.
· Rooney (neither regress or progress, having a good season)
· van Persie (big regress but IMO he was misused)
· Falcao (hard to say what happened to him, just never looked like a player ready for this level)
· Di Maria (big big regress)
Obviously, what has happened to Radamel and Angel isn’t his fault, but the point stands.
He finally did the most obvious thing- put Carrick in a 3 man midfield, and surround him with mobile players good on the ball. It’s hard to understand that neither of Ferguson and Moyes did that before. Mata has been superb lately and kudos to van Gaal for finding him a new role.
Definitely, but we don't need any praise from the media. Screw 'em.
Indeed. I remember a lot of complaints in that 12/13 season about how poor we were overall over 90 minutes and were winning games through several moments of quality rather than as you said, dominating the general play.
My verdict on Van Gaal? He's done brilliantly, and he's not even had to wave his bollocks at anyone yet.
Fathers fall out with their sons, sons with their fathers and then make up again. I'm not saying it will happen but I think it's a possibility, both will have their opinions and so we are talking about potential fierce disagreements between two big egos.
If Costa injures one of our players with a stamp then is Louis van Gaal not to go crazy and call for the player to be banned for more than 3 matches? Is Mourinho not defend his player?
How will Louis van Gaal respond when Mourinho defends somebody who intentionally injured one of his players?
I'm just saying it could happen but it also depends on whether our manager extends his contract. He has already stated Mourinho doesn't care to play attractive football but I doubt Mourinho is of the opinion his brand of football is 'unattractive', it's not intended as an insult on Louis van Gaal's part but instead to point out how difficult it is to achieve what he is trying to do however Mourinho might take offence to it.
I also disagree Louis van Gaal feels Mourinho has surpassed him but simply pointed out he has had a more prolific career, that also is dependant on circumstances, Louis van Gaal has managed AZ and Holland when he could have been at a top club for example. I also think when he said 'he is my master' it was his attempt to be respectful but not at any point has he indicated Mourinho is better than him as a coach, in fact I think Louis van Gaal is of the opinion he is the best coach in the world.
Louis van Gaal also said after the champions league final something like "I congratulated him and then that was that, nothing else said about the match", that was in response to a question about Mourinho's tactics and also the referee not awarding a penalty to Bayern, it was clear Louis van Gaal was unhappy. There could be a point where more is said, they will be competing for the same four trophies next season.
So whilst I accept the two have immense respect for each other, I also think they are big personalities and they could go through a rough period (not saying it will definitely happen but is a real possibility if controversy happens between the two sides) but I am sure long term there will be no problems.
The most amazing thing about LVG this season has been his ability to remain calm from his first day in charge till now, he was under a lot of pressure to perform after the season under Moyes - he came in with a system and warned that it might take a while to successfully execute, he received a lot of backlash from the fans (albeit on the caf') and the media (especially) - most of the pundits were really harsh on him, some of them were still butthurt about the sacking of David Moyes and the £150m we spent in the summer, the only time he seemed to lose his temper was after the West Ham game when 'not so big' Sam (who thought he was contending for a CL spot due to West Ham's incredible form earlier on, and let it get to his head) questioned his long ball tactics.
Other than that, he has just been focused on his system, even the Great Mourinho would have succumbed to all that pressure and imploded by now.
Verdict: Overachieved - a lot of fans would have settled for an unconvincing 4th place finish at the start of the season, LVG has exceeded that expectation, this is the 2nd week of April and WE ARE STILL IN THE TITLE RACE (mathematically)we are a point behind 2nd place, we strolled passed Spurs,Liverpool and City, not just with wins but with our performances, we don't lose games by more than a goal margin anymore (The Leicester game was really weird).
we spent a lot of money on a lot of players and we only needed 2 (Blind and Herrera, Maybe Di Maria's assists), our best performers (Smalling,Fellaini,Young,Carrick,De Gea) were all here last season, we are winning without the effect of a 'world class' player, unlike Arsenal and Chelsea which is simply remarkable.
Other than that, he has just been focused on his system, even the Great Mourinho would have succumbed to all that pressure and imploded by now.
Verdict: Overachieved - a lot of fans would have settled for an unconvincing 4th place finish at the start of the season, LVG has exceeded that expectation, this is the 2nd week of April and WE ARE STILL IN THE TITLE RACE (mathematically)we are a point behind 2nd place, we strolled passed Spurs,Liverpool and City, not just with wins but with our performances, we don't lose games by more than a goal margin anymore (The Leicester game was really weird).
we spent a lot of money on a lot of players and we only needed 2 (Blind and Herrera, Maybe Di Maria's assists), our best performers (Smalling,Fellaini,Young,Carrick,De Gea) were all here last season, we are winning without the effect of a 'world class' player, unlike Arsenal and Chelsea which is simply remarkable.
Nah, can't see it happening. I think it's quite normal they didn't get into any discussion after the CL match. They're both winners, impossible for them both to be happy right after the game, one had to loose. I think you're reading way too much into everything.
I think their honesty and directness is why they respect each other so much. And Van Gaal might have been such an advocate of attractive football at one point, but that didn't stop him from playing unattractive result driven football this past world cup either. Just a matter of preference.
Van Gaal literally said: "I am always the 'arrogant Louis van Gaal' but now I am humble. Now, he is better than me." But he didn't at any point indicate Mourinho is better than him? I don't see any reason why Van Gaal, who is always honest and direct, wasn't honest there.
Either way, I guess time will tell.
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Can't agree that we don't have a world class player. Ignoring De Gea as I take it you mean outfield, Rooney is world class, no question for me, after his performances and leadership this year. And Mata in this form is the best finisher on the planet.
I hope next season is even better.
I would love it if we won the Champions league and it would be a true return to greatness for us all.
I would love it if we won the Champions league and it would be a true return to greatness for us all.
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