Good to know. Cheers.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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impressed with the high pressing over the last 2 games.
we pass the ball with great tempo as well. impressed with the movement on and off the ball. every body makes themselves available.
hope this continues .
we pass the ball with great tempo as well. impressed with the movement on and off the ball. every body makes themselves available.
hope this continues .
I don't think people understand that all the stuff that's happened before these two games. The poor passes, the giveaway goals, the supposed formation tweaks that make us slow, the movement of the ball, the lack of sharpness is all part of the process of learning LVG's philosophy.
His system is very hard to learn and it takes time to learn it. Remember that his methods have won him the league in every competition he's been a part. EVERY COUNTRY. Which means that the system is near perfection, and its execution is what takes time.
All those Liverpudlian "pundits" talking about how LVG doesn't have a clue of what he's doing are eating their own words now. All the previous games have led to these moments. Let's not forget that. Players are human beings, they need to learn.
His system is very hard to learn and it takes time to learn it. Remember that his methods have won him the league in every competition he's been a part. EVERY COUNTRY. Which means that the system is near perfection, and its execution is what takes time.
All those Liverpudlian "pundits" talking about how LVG doesn't have a clue of what he's doing are eating their own words now. All the previous games have led to these moments. Let's not forget that. Players are human beings, they need to learn.
Weird it took so long for them to learn though and it defo took LVG yonks to find out his best XI. Only wish we had kicked on like this a month or two ago.
Am actually thoroughly enjoying watching us play for the first time since SAF left.
Am actually thoroughly enjoying watching us play for the first time since SAF left.
He's slowly winning the sceptics over and seems to have stumbled upon the winning formula.
What a man.
I love that
I love what is happening in the last 2 matches. But did it really take 30 plus games to arrive at this point?
It took Di Maria getting sent off and RVP getting injured.
Van Gaal says this is his preferred formation, but he could have played this early if he dropped RVP rather than trying to play with two up top.
I disagree that it's all about the formation. What's actually happened is that the players have stepped it up in key areas of the pitch.
Take the first goal against Spurs. Some superb off the ball movement by Carrick brings about the goal.
Again, take the first goal from yesterday. Fellaini's brilliant movement between Liverpool lines is key in setting up the goal.
Very little to do with formations this. More about the players stepping up big time. Well done to LvG but also well fecking done to the players for rising up after the FA cup disappointment
Take the first goal against Spurs. Some superb off the ball movement by Carrick brings about the goal.
Again, take the first goal from yesterday. Fellaini's brilliant movement between Liverpool lines is key in setting up the goal.
Very little to do with formations this. More about the players stepping up big time. Well done to LvG but also well fecking done to the players for rising up after the FA cup disappointment
To be fair though, i think most managers if you had three players like Rooney, RVP and Falcao you would try and find them in... You someway, yes he probably should of given up sooner but don't play him trying to make it work.
You also have to remember it's only been end of Jan/Feb that we've really come out of an injury crisis and had most players fit. Most of the chopping and changing was enforced.
That first half was something else
The number of players who have improved under Van Gaal is what has changed us this season:
- Afro-man
- Young
- Valencia
- Smalling
- Jones
- The little magician
I feel giddy at the way Mata and Fellaini have proved themselves to the point that they are the best players in the team now. Absolutely brilliant!
- Afro-man
- Young
- Valencia
- Smalling
- Jones
- The little magician
I feel giddy at the way Mata and Fellaini have proved themselves to the point that they are the best players in the team now. Absolutely brilliant!
Yes this is the key to the chnge in form.
Playing with wingbacks leaves the wings exposed, because the opposition just push their fullbacks forward stopping the advance, and this leaves tthe midfield to try and provide service to a static front two covered in defenders. Everything is predictable, as even the lesser sides found. Playing with propper fullbacks and only one striker means that there are no target men, which makes it nearlly impossible for the opposition to man mark.
No one knows who's supposed to pick up who. This is the classic Dutch style. Essentially there are no wingers attacking midfielders and strikers holding the same positions. Everyone moves around into the empty spacees leaving the opposition defence to chase shaddows.
This system does not suit Falcao, because he is used to being a target man in a counter attacking team. It also doesnt suit Di Maria at the moment because he's also used to playing fast countering football as a winger. Mata is flourishing now because his task is not to support a front two. Everyones free to exploit any position.
This way of playing is very hard to defend against, but way to break it up is to compact the midfield, which is what Chelsea will try to do.
It looks like we are starting to function effectively as a team now, which is very pleasing.
So what's been happening over at RAWK?
I think it may not have needed 30 games but it certainly wouldn't have been only 10. Let's not forget that our transfers came in only after the league started and at the beginning of the season we have had horrific injuries to contend with.
I don't know what some of the fans are thinking but LVG has always said that he was a slow starter. A meticulous man like him would definitely have wanted to cover as much ground as possible and that meant a lot of experimenting. Also we know from the excellent posts of @NL Max and the interview with Henry Winter that he has this idealistic view where the players eventually do not rely on instinct (which could be random or circumstantial) but rather players know how to think on the field and finally be able to autonomously adapt to adverse situations on the field.
That is always going to take time. It is an educational process for the team and education, understanding and application do not happen overnight. I actually expect to see one or two more blips this season, because I don't think our players are coming completely to terms with the game LVG wants to play. But what's heartening is that we see the players are adapting and the results can be beautiful. Let's just make sure we do not call for LVG's head should be lose to Villa or something.
Some people thing possession play is boring and they prefer the swashbuckling counter-attacking style. But seriously, when Liverpool was struggling even to get the ball in the first 35 minutes of play - I thought that was excellent.
I don't know what some of the fans are thinking but LVG has always said that he was a slow starter. A meticulous man like him would definitely have wanted to cover as much ground as possible and that meant a lot of experimenting. Also we know from the excellent posts of @NL Max and the interview with Henry Winter that he has this idealistic view where the players eventually do not rely on instinct (which could be random or circumstantial) but rather players know how to think on the field and finally be able to autonomously adapt to adverse situations on the field.
That is always going to take time. It is an educational process for the team and education, understanding and application do not happen overnight. I actually expect to see one or two more blips this season, because I don't think our players are coming completely to terms with the game LVG wants to play. But what's heartening is that we see the players are adapting and the results can be beautiful. Let's just make sure we do not call for LVG's head should be lose to Villa or something.
Some people thing possession play is boring and they prefer the swashbuckling counter-attacking style. But seriously, when Liverpool was struggling even to get the ball in the first 35 minutes of play - I thought that was excellent.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32011837
He usually speaks bollocks but nice bit of analysis from Shearer.
He usually speaks bollocks but nice bit of analysis from Shearer.
Good to see LvG finally doing what we all expected him to do from the start of the season. The team has been playing some lovely stuff in the last couple of matches, we are not folding in the most important part of the season. We wiped Spurs off the park, we did it to Liverpool at their Anfield in front of their KOP, we look forward now to playing other big boys of this league. Happy times, which are obviously the result of LvG's hard work behind the scenes.
Maybe Im being too generous in my analysis of LVG. But I think there is more to all this than him simply not seeing what the world and his dog on an internet forum could see - in terms of selection and play style. I think he has been working on Herrera and refining his understanding of his role in midfield. OK the whole playing two up front thing can only really be justified in terms of trying to accommodate all his most expensive / illustrious players, I would have liked him to see the writing on the wall a bit quicker than he did (did he even see it before injury forced his hand? Probably not.) I dont think the last two games represent an abandonment or compromise on the style of play Van Gaal has been looking for, but rather a case of the penny dropping for the team as a unit, the culmination of many months of hard work. I think what we are seeing now is the realisation of what Van Gaal has envisaged all along.
I also think having played so well for the last couple of games we will take that confidence and momentum and we will see better performances against the other "weaker" teams we will be facing from here on in. I dont buy this idea that we can only play well against the best teams and will struggle against those who are less adventurous. Of course those kinds of games present different kinds of challenges but I honestly think we will rise to them. We have hit form at just the right time, the only negative is the international break has come at a bit of a shit time but hopefully we wont lose that momentum because of it.
I also think having played so well for the last couple of games we will take that confidence and momentum and we will see better performances against the other "weaker" teams we will be facing from here on in. I dont buy this idea that we can only play well against the best teams and will struggle against those who are less adventurous. Of course those kinds of games present different kinds of challenges but I honestly think we will rise to them. We have hit form at just the right time, the only negative is the international break has come at a bit of a shit time but hopefully we wont lose that momentum because of it.
Id love to argue against the logic of those who say this is all the philosophy working but tbh id rather focus on the good times than other posters misplaced smugness.
The manager has now done what Moyes never came close to doing and that's finding an effective system with good football.
If he needed to try 10 ridiculous formations to get here then so be it as at least he's changed things up. It could have cost top 4 if he hadn't got right at the right time but so be it.
I do still worry about his in game substitutions as he always makes things worse. Any person could see Di Maria would leave Blind and the team exposed and therefore make us nervous yet he speaks in his post match with utter surprise.
The manager has now done what Moyes never came close to doing and that's finding an effective system with good football.
If he needed to try 10 ridiculous formations to get here then so be it as at least he's changed things up. It could have cost top 4 if he hadn't got right at the right time but so be it.
I do still worry about his in game substitutions as he always makes things worse. Any person could see Di Maria would leave Blind and the team exposed and therefore make us nervous yet he speaks in his post match with utter surprise.
Yup. That's where I'm at right now. Almost word for word.
We'll see. The forum will go into meltdown and doubts about van Gaal again if we put in a dour performance against villa.
Whilst the majority of my brain cells chant his name whilst leaving the disco doing a conga there are one or two stragglers at the bar refusing to join the line mumbling something about how this is only coming about because RVP got injured and without that we'd still be playing cr*p.
Yeah of course it will. Can I promise we wont see RVP come in for Rooney up front, Rooney drop back into Herrera's place in midfield, and the whole thing falls apart again against Villa? Of course not. If that happens we will all reappraise, of course. I think if that happens Ill end up in a place where I have less faith in Van Gaal than I did 2 or 3 weeks ago. But until that happens Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I have criticised him the past month or so (prior to the last 2 games), So credit where it is due we are now at a point where it seems to be clicking and the football has been good. I must say though I don't think this would of happened had it not been for the mistakes and poor football up until that point, LVG has had to adjust and it has been for the better all around.
I just really HOPE he does not revert back to having RVP in the side and benching Herrera, I really would be disappointed if it went back to that as it would signal that he has not learned from the 28 games prior to the last 2.
I just really HOPE he does not revert back to having RVP in the side and benching Herrera, I really would be disappointed if it went back to that as it would signal that he has not learned from the 28 games prior to the last 2.
This "he's likely to/probably will bring back RvP straight into the team" thing seems to be this weeks version of "he doesn't rate Mata and will sell him when he has the chance".
He's figured it I reckon. Changed it from a slow build up to a quick one whilst managing to retain
Good point, and overlooked by many. Him getting into space dragged three players into him which freed up Herrera. It's like our midfielders have just clicked into sync and now we are playing properly.
Good point, and overlooked by many. Him getting into space dragged three players into him which freed up Herrera. It's like our midfielders have just clicked into sync and now we are playing properly.
I agree. It would be silly to disrupt it by dropping Rooney back in there to fit RvP back in the team.
Looking at our style of play and the way it's developing, Europe, assuming we make it (we will ) will be interesting. Our set up and possession based game should serve us very well against European opposition. Add that to the fact that we can replace any potential weak links with shiny new players and we could be starting to see the makings of something very special.
) will be interesting. Our set up and possession based game should serve us very well against European opposition. Add that to the fact that we can replace any potential weak links with shiny new players and we could be starting to see the makings of something very special.
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Looking at our style of play and the way it's developing, Europe, assuming we make it (we will
The first half yesterday was the template for the coming years I think. Our general approach - the majority of possession, coordinated pressing in midfield and a rapid transition on the floor from defence to attack - is something that should translate well to the European game.
Yeah the template is there, but so is the scope for plenty of improvement. I for one, can't wait!
We are now starting to play the kind of football that we all expected from a LVG team. I have been one of his harshest critics as the level of performance, the tactics, the team selections and substitutions have all been below par.
Hopefully we've now turned a corner and he doesn't revert back to previous systems and tactics when Van Persie is back.
Hopefully we've now turned a corner and he doesn't revert back to previous systems and tactics when Van Persie is back.
You're completely right, and I find that even more worrying. It took more than 30 games and a cosmic coincidence to get Rooney as a lone striker and an additional midfielder in the side. I'm not sure how much credit I can give Van Gaal?
I've always been a big fan of LvG, the only real mistake thats hindered us badly this season (for me) has been persisting with RvP and to a slightly lesser extent Falcao, carrying them almost to the extent of shifting our better/in-form players around/benched for them, changing our formation to suit them.
But you can just tell he has that "special extra" bit about him as a manager, compared to Moyes it's night and day, hopefully we can take this template, (formation, tempo, playingstyle) into the rest of the season and into next year, a few more quality additions and I'm hopeful once more for our longterm future under his tenure.
But you can just tell he has that "special extra" bit about him as a manager, compared to Moyes it's night and day, hopefully we can take this template, (formation, tempo, playingstyle) into the rest of the season and into next year, a few more quality additions and I'm hopeful once more for our longterm future under his tenure.
This has been the most baffling thing about Van Gaal for me. For a manager who has always put the system above the stars, his slavish loyalty to the stars at the expense of the system has been shocking to me. For months Van Gaal shoehorned his stars into our line up, saw it produce awful football, and did nothing. When Van Gaal was appointed I expected him to be able to take the difficult decisions. Instead, Van Gaal has done everything he has to avoid making the big calls and that's held us back.
Van Gaal is, at last, using the system he trusts most and playing the players who fit into it best. It's having the desired effect, as you would expect it would with a manager who prepares so thoroughly and has such clear ideas about ball retention, creating overloads and using the ball to break down other teams. However, its legitimate to ask, why did he not do this before? Would he be doing it if Van Persie wasn't injured? Will he return to type and drop Ander as soon as Van Persie is fit?
The one thing I wonder - can we get better? The RVP injury, di Maria red, and Falcao's horrendous form all came to a head at about the same time, so I think some of the team selection and tactics have been forced rather than by design. But does that mean what we see now, is that the best mix possible with who we have?
They've certainly produced, and done it impressively but if everyone were healthy, would we still play this team?
They've certainly produced, and done it impressively but if everyone were healthy, would we still play this team?
Find out next time on...the Louis Van Gaal experiment
Taken since the 1st January up until either just before or just after the Spurs game. The lower value means a higher level of pressing.
This explains it http://statsbomb.com/2014/07/defensive-metrics-measuring-the-intensity-of-a-high-press/
Also, this article on yesterday's game is pretty interesting http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/03/22/liverpool-manchester-united-12/
I agree, by far the most baffling thing, and one that ensures I'm quite nervous about what is going to happen after the international break. Mainly confident and happy, but with a nagging worry in the back of my mind.
Very very interesting. That's the clearest indication of a complete shift in playing style compared to previous seasons.
Taken since the 1st January up until either just before or just after the Spurs game. The lower value means a higher level of pressing.
This explains it http://statsbomb.com/2014/07/defensive-metrics-measuring-the-intensity-of-a-high-press/
Also, this article on yesterday's game is pretty interesting http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/03/22/liverpool-manchester-united-12/
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