United under LvG: verdict so far!

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Van Gaal is fecking useless.

Given the opponent, I can't remember such an inept performance at Old Trafford.
 
Can't stand the bloke everything about him stinks,

his attitude
His tactics
His selections
His interviews
 
Van gaal has got such vision he's got Wayne Rooney playing the deepest, damn and many complained fergie played Rooney on the left
 
We're trying to see a game out against Burney at Old Trafford with two #10's playing as DM's. What a farce.
 
Methinks LVG is being too clever by far. It's like he's expounding on the various formations a team with such talents could play, instead of using the formations & players he should play. Practicality is a bugaboo with him when given such riches. He seemed much more practical with the Orange, realizing his players limited his choices, but he's still searching for what works now. It's like he's drilling this team to be able to play any & every formation but they have lost the plot. Sure, they can switch formation at a drop, but they sure aren't comfortable with it all or effective. I'd like to seem him have United impose it's will on other teams instead of trying to outguess them or outformation them.
 
Out of all our top our rivals for the last 2 champions league places....Liverpool, Spurs, Southampton and Arsenal - we are the only ones playing consistently ugly football.....in fact we don't seem to have any playing style.....but in saying that I honestly believe that Moyes left Van Gaal with a broken and painfully unbalanced squad and Van Gaal has had to try and accommodate Moyes's expensive dud signings in Mata and Fellaini to very little effect even though they have improved tenfold since last season. I think Van Gaal has actually been okay under the circumstances. I have no doubt that Van Gaal just can't wait for the summer where he can dump the deadwood and sign the players he knows now that he would need to balance things up. It's going to be a painful end to the season for all of us but we definitely don't have enough good players in certain positions to play nice football now and I think Van Gaal will get the players he needs in the summer and it will have been a miracle if he gets us into the top 4 with the current disjointed unbalanced squad....I am not feeling confident about it unless we start miraculously improving our away form
 
The time is over, the bluff has been uncovered.

But he is not the main problem, the problem is the club managment, the scouts, fecking amatures.
 
3rd place, and with a little cushion as well. I'll admit to finding our performances over the last few months boring, but if you'd said to me in August that we'll be 3rd in February, i'd have taken it.

I do worry that we could come unstuck in some of the bigger games, but on the other hand, I also think it might take those games to bring the best out of us.

At the bare minimum - mainly based on results and league position - he's been satisfactory to date.
 
Theonas said:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...h-football-s-infantile-culture-110647998.html

I didn't know where to post this but I thought it was a great piece about Van Gaal and the British media and public.
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Is that something important? I also read stuff from France Football sometimes and appreciate their insight about football in general. Still, LVG's job is not to educate the public by any means; leave that to someone else. If educating the public was that important in order to change something, then we would have seen Wenger and Mourinho doing it long ago, and God knows they can.

Teaching the players (and getting genuine improvement from it) is more vital than teaching the public at this time. Like I wrote yesterday, LVG could have ended the debate by reminding that Allardyce is the master of long ball football everywhere he went.
 
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Ringo 07 said:
Out of all our top our rivals for the last 2 champions league places....Liverpool, Spurs, Southampton and Arsenal - we are the only ones playing consistently ugly football.....in fact we don't seem to have any playing style.....but in saying that I honestly believe that Moyes left Van Gaal with a broken and painfully unbalanced squad and Van Gaal has had to try and accommodate Moyes's expensive dud signings in Mata and Fellaini to very little effect even though they have improved tenfold since last season. I think Van Gaal has actually been okay under the circumstances. I have no doubt that Van Gaal just can't wait for the summer where he can dump the deadwood and sign the players he knows now that he would need to balance things up. It's going to be a painful end to the season for all of us but we definitely don't have enough good players in certain positions to play nice football now and I think Van Gaal will get the players he needs in the summer and it will have been a miracle if he gets us into the top 4 with the current disjointed unbalanced squad....I am not feeling confident about it unless we start miraculously improving our away form
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People keep saying it was moyes that left the squad unbalanced. But was it really? For me, if was still very much fergusons pool of players
 
Luck in this game and the one before when we scored absolutely undeserved goal is postponing the fans' final rage which will result in him being crucified by media and fans and he will be finally sacked. This win can do more harm than if we lost. I don't want to speculate that much but I think Giggs must really not feel comfortable with some decisions the dictator made. He looks really clueless.

- Recent things I am pissed off:
  • playing again RVP and Falcao after their abysmal performance against WHU in 72 hour and whatsoever...
  • playing rooney deeper and deeper even he is showing how much out of depth he is there in midfield
  • making McNair his most likeable player at cost of Rafael who is 3500% better at right back, but today's performance should show him how still average player he is there, he's got time and deserved to start perhaps after the good display against LEAGUE2 side.
  • ommiting playing Smalling our best center back at cost of brainless Jones and clueless Evans just to get his fecking balance, which other manager in the world does this? I guess none
I don't even need to mention ommiting Herrera our I'd say most important player who just makes the team playing better, weird Fellaini tactics , just for the sake of Fellaini having in team we go playing long balls ? How about outplaying opponent with smart sharp passing with through balls etc?
And of course this completely dysfunctional system with two strikers for the sake of playing my friend Robin Van Grant Holt and World class striker after injury Falcao..

You could obviously find some pros but the cons and current state is not giving me any hope that this will get better. For the ones who give him time, he can change some of his decisions but obviously will come another, like Jones on corners, dimaria up front etc. This is getting risky because if he makes it to summer we will witness Ed opening our war chest again and I think we could spend much more and it may end up not well for us or for the next manager who will be here sooner than before the end of next season is my guess. I don't see this guy making it here (winning the league, FA cup and making to the semis at least in Champions League in three years). And I am not the fan of big changes and changes of managers every year but it's sadly looking like another dead end..
 
I got 3 points to add here:

- Yes i can see where you guys are coming from, flaming LVG's selections and our teams current performance.
- Regardless we are 3rd, which is a fantastic performance considering how strong Chelsea is, and the insane amount of competition in the BPL this year.

Heres the other:

- During the last 3-4 years of SAF our play was equal or even worse. And his selections were beyond wack as wel.
 
Kakeru said:
Is that something important? I also read stuff from France Football sometimes and appreciate their insight about football in general. Still, LVG's job is not to educate the public by any means; leave that to someone else. If educating the public was that important in order to change something, then we would have seen Wenger and Mourinho doing it long ago, and God knows they can.

Teaching the players (and getting genuine improvement from it) is more vital than teaching the public at this time. Like I wrote yesterday, LVG could have ended the debate by reminding that Allardyce is the master of long ball football everywhere he went.
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I thought the article had something interesting to say about the British public and media. I never said it was important whatever that mean. People are really getting strange over here, the Fergie years have truly ruined people's perception. We are not playing well and we are not entitled to. Only thing that is going to make it happen is a collective work from the management and players and the necessary time which could be 3 months, 6 months or two years. But never mind, by next Monday, you and others like you will have deemed 5 days enough time to see the clear improvements. Looking at the forums on here, I swear you'd think no big club ever goes more than 1 season playing bad football.
 
Third place. Third fewest goals conceded in the league. Fourth most goals scored.

Not too shabby really.
 
sullydnl said:
Third place. Third fewest goals conceded in the league. Fourth most goals scored.

Not too shabby really.
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We played terribly and were awful to watch, glad we picked up the points but we cannot ride this luck forever.
Rooney should not be playing in the midfield and Herrera should be starting, that much is obvious.
 
NessunDorma said:
3rd place, and with a little cushion as well. I'll admit to finding our performances over the last few months boring, but if you'd said to me in August that we'll be 3rd in February, i'd have taken it.

I do worry that we could come unstuck in some of the bigger games, but on the other hand, I also think it might take those games to bring the best out of us.

At the bare minimum - mainly based on results and league position - he's been satisfactory to date.
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We've been so bloody lucky, that is indisputable, but I see a method in the madness. There is a risilence there even if the football is mainly mind numbingly shite. Without de Gea we'd be mid table at best though and I hope he is being rewarded aptly in his new contract.
 
sullydnl said:
Third place. Third fewest goals conceded in the league. Fourth most goals scored.

Not too shabby really.
Click to expand...
It's easy to say that we're doing well just from looking at stats, but we've really been horrible. Burnley could have easily been 3-1 up after 50 or so minutes. If it were City/Chelsea they would have really punished us.

It's all well and good to say that 'if we're winning while playing badly then imagine us when we're good', but when will it click? Will it ever click?
 
Rezyuz said:
I got 3 points to add here:

- Yes i can see where you guys are coming from, flaming LVG's selections and our teams current performance.
- Regardless we are 3rd, which is a fantastic performance considering how strong Chelsea is, and the insane amount of competition in the BPL this year.

Heres the other:

- During the last 3-4 years of SAF our play was equal or even worse. And his selections were beyond wack as wel.
Click to expand...

You're right that 3rd is a terrific position to be in but I have to disagree about the strength of the competition, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton are poorer than they were last season while we were never this bad in terms of performance for a sustained period under Ferguson like we have been over the last 6 or 7 weeks. I don't think he's doing a good job really, his selections are bizarre and a lot of our better players are playing well below their best but he has to be given credit for somehow eking out results while that is the case.

That being said, I'd be a lot more confident and positive going in to next season with him if we lost the next 5 and then went on a really good run playing good football, missing out on the top 4 but having something to build upon than I will be if we scrape top 4 but continue to play stodgy, unconvincing football and getting lucky results for the rest of the season.
 
That was shite, wasn't it?

I don't like the booing though what the feck is all that about? Get behind the team regardless you spoiled fecktards.
 
It was a poor match to watch, but most of the season has been that way. We're concerned with finishing third (or fourth) and nothing else. I won't judge him on the quality of football until next year. Results are all that matter this season, and, despite all the complaining, Van Gaal is getting results.
 
He is and has been a very lucky manager, but nothing wrong with that, all great managers somehow get lucky often enough.
His football however has been a disaster, playing like a small club more often than not.
The almost only positive is he is continuing to play kids which will only benefit us in future.
Anyway above all he needs to improve our football, otherwise he can leave at the end of the season even if we get 3rd as far as I am concerned. To show he has the balls to play Herrera would also be a step in the right direction ...
 
At least he knows we are playing badly, if he starts saying we are playing well when we have been crap then I will start getting worried.
 
Raw said:
It's easy to say that we're doing well just from looking at stats, but we've really been horrible. Burnley could have easily been 3-1 up after 50 or so minutes. If it were City/Chelsea they would have really punished us.

It's all well and good to say that 'if we're winning while playing badly then imagine us when we're good', but when will it click? Will it ever click?
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They didn't though
 
He's been lucky and I am sick of his team selections. To be honest I can see us going to Anfield or something and getting an absolute smashing. It would probably be the best thing for him too because he needs some sort of wake-up call. He says he isn't happy with the performances and yet he constantly picks the same team. It's maddening.
 
He's a severe handicap on the team and is holding us back. That first half was an absolute atrocity, the worst I've seen in a long time.

Either the players just aren't playing to 100% of their ability for him or he's a genius in his own right for getting such an expensive, talented team to perform so shit.
 
RORY65 said:
You're right that 3rd is a terrific position to be in but I have to disagree about the strength of the competition, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton are poorer than they were last season while we were never this bad in terms of performance for a sustained period under Ferguson like we have been over the last 6 or 7 weeks. I don't think he's doing a good job really, his selections are bizarre and a lot of our better players are playing well below their best but he has to be given credit for somehow eking out results while that is the case.

That being said, I'd be a lot more confident and positive going in to next season with him if we lost the next 5 and then went on a really good run playing good football, missing out on the top 4 but having something to build upon than I will be if we scrape top 4 but continue to play stodgy, unconvincing football and getting lucky results for the rest of the season.
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It depends how you judge "competition". Although Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton are a lot poorer then normal, they are still HUGE risks of losing points against. The amount of teams which any team can lose points against increased. And thats what i see as more competition. For the title, there is no more competition then 3-4 teams. never was and never will be.

But its Arsenal, Liverpool, Southampton, Everton, City, Chelsea, WHU, Everton, Tottenham all teams which you can easily lose or draw against. And in the old days, Tottenham, Everton, Southampton was just a free win, regardless of how poor our form was.
 
The old devil-angel dichotomy. The angel tells me United are third and still in the FA cup. Would have been pleased if that was offered that at the beginning of the season. Also, restored our home record from last year.

The devil tells me that it's hard to overlook LvG's kooky decisions, and that our position is down to luck.

Today we won-so I'll listen to my better nature.
 
Still have belief in him and still believe we'll finish top four and maybe even win the cup.

Having said that, if we see no improvement in our football next season... So help me God...
 
By all accounts, LvG is a great coach. Surely he has to see the problems? So his refusal to change is down to two things
  1. He's absolutely convinced that what he's doing is the right thing to do in the longer term and he's determined to play it that way hoping the players will ultimately adjust to his methods.
  2. He's too proud to change from his formations even though he's seeing it's not working. But the results give him enough latitude to push this system across, and he'll only change if we start slipping from the Top 4 target.
I like him, his press conferences have been good, he exudes confidence and I trust him a lot more than I did Moyes, he's got us to 3rd, 5 points off Citeh, but we have arguably the toughest run of the top 5 teams and it's not in anyway granted that we're going to get Top 4. The bastard probably backs himself to guide us to 2nd.
 
I really think the issue is simply the fact that Van Gaal is tactically oriented. Tactics and players roles and movement need to be meticulously planned according to his type of coach which means that players are getting too much information and learning too much. This leads to hesitation and less spontaneity. Fergie and even Mourinho are more about man management, they like to encourage their players and their strengths is doing the basics right, extremely right in fact. Both types of coaching have their advantages and problems. On the one hand, Van Gaal's demande a lot of patience, is frustrating for fans and even players which means it could be never last long enough for it work. There is also the problem that it either works perfectly or fails. The advantage though is that if it works perfectly, you have as good a side as you can have; dominant and authoritative. Fergie and Mourinho styles will get faster results and work more often than not as they will always have the players on their side. On the other hand, it's harder to create a true dominant force in Europe.
 
Blodssvik said:
It is absolutely mindblowing that some people think our football was worse under SAF.
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Certainly had our moments, especially later on.
I do miss those counter attacks though, where we committed everything to attack with no fear of consequence.

Consequence is the vital difference between both managers, Fergusons sides cared little for it thus gave us some absolutely thrilling games, yet with hindsight we did become more cautious as Ferguson aged or possibly as the league itself changed.
We had a swashbuckling challenger to the league last year but that ultimately failed and the more steady challenge from City won through, this year we have the dogmatic approach from Chelsea which is proving to much for any challengers. We must also factor in Arsenal who once stood toe to toe and won and challenged for league titles, having continued in the same free flowing style they have ultimately failed.

The league has changed from the days when Fergusons United sides ploughed through all in it's wake, teams have become more dangerous since we put 9 past a hapless Ipswich and we may have to accept that to survive in this league today we simply can't play in the same manner as we did in past years, do that and we will fall foul of scouseituss. Sure we are far from setting the league alight but it's the managers first season and he's finding a way to get results any which way he can, teams around us are playing much the better styles but it's us that are 3rd with only the Champions and the dogmatic Chelsea ahead. This is not Van Gaals usual style but perhaps, just perhaps he's had to find a way to adapt and get results in any way he can with what he has at his disposal, all whilst learning how to survive in a league where anyone can beat anyone else. I had similar conversations with lads tonight and no matter what arguments are put forward it holds obvious weight that the league has certainly evolved and perhaps Fergusons closing couple of years testify to this fact more than him just getting a bit stale.
 
m1y2 said:
Luck in this game and the one before when we scored absolutely undeserved goal is postponing the fans' final rage which will result in him being crucified by media and fans and he will be finally sacked. This win can do more harm than if we lost. I don't want to speculate that much but I think Giggs must really not feel comfortable with some decisions the dictator made. He looks really clueless.

- Recent things I am pissed off:
  • playing again RVP and Falcao after their abysmal performance against WHU in 72 hour and whatsoever...
  • playing rooney deeper and deeper even he is showing how much out of depth he is there in midfield
  • making McNair his most likeable player at cost of Rafael who is 3500% better at right back, but today's performance should show him how still average player he is there, he's got time and deserved to start perhaps after the good display against LEAGUE2 side.
  • ommiting playing Smalling our best center back at cost of brainless Jones and clueless Evans just to get his fecking balance, which other manager in the world does this? I guess none
I don't even need to mention ommiting Herrera our I'd say most important player who just makes the team playing better, weird Fellaini tactics , just for the sake of Fellaini having in team we go playing long balls ? How about outplaying opponent with smart sharp passing with through balls etc?
And of course this completely dysfunctional system with two strikers for the sake of playing my friend Robin Van Grant Holt and World class striker after injury Falcao..

You could obviously find some pros but the cons and current state is not giving me any hope that this will get better. For the ones who give him time, he can change some of his decisions but obviously will come another, like Jones on corners, dimaria up front etc. This is getting risky because if he makes it to summer we will witness Ed opening our war chest again and I think we could spend much more and it may end up not well for us or for the next manager who will be here sooner than before the end of next season is my guess. I don't see this guy making it here (winning the league, FA cup and making to the semis at least in Champions League in three years). And I am not the fan of big changes and changes of managers every year but it's sadly looking like another dead end..
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Are you high? Fellaini didn't even play, McNair LVG's 'most likeable player' and 'Robin can Grant Holt'. Seriously? As for Smalling, yeah he scored too but was shocking in defence today. Lot of shit in this thread as ever.
 
Content that we sit in 3rd, but I don't think we have played nearly good enough to justify that position. Still fear a meltdown. I haven't agreed with a lot of his tactics and I don't think he has gotten the best out of his players. If we get top 4 he certainly deserves another year to build...but if we continue this bad next year then he has to go.
 
united_99 said:
He is and has been a very lucky manager, but nothing wrong with that, all great managers somehow get lucky often enough.
His football however has been a disaster, playing like a small club more often than not.
The almost only positive is he is continuing to play kids which will only benefit us in future.
Anyway above all he needs to improve our football, otherwise he can leave at the end of the season even if we get 3rd as far as I am concerned. To show he has the balls to play Herrera would also be a step in the right direction ...
Click to expand...
The commentator mentioned something about how some Dutch people think he's been lucky in his career. What is that all about?
 
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