United under LvG: verdict so far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
noodlehair said:
But he said we were involved in the game at that point, so it still makes absolutely no sense. In fact it's no different from what I said he said, because that's what he said.
Click to expand...

Is this difficult? He says that you need to a) win the second ball and b) play good football on the floor. First half we did neither. Second half we played better football but still failed to win the battle. So we swapped a creative player for Fellaini.

Compare that to what he said about West Ham.

We know in advance that West Ham United play the long ball every time again from the defence, and then you have to head the ball. Then Rojo and Jones, okay, they win the ball, but then you have to win the second ball. Always Song, Nolan and Noble were in a better position and won the ball and then they bring the ball along the floor, and then the cross was coming in.
Click to expand...

ie they're winning the tackles and then they're playing football on the floor.
 
Can we just get something straight here?

United draw away against a much improved West Ham side, who are knocking on the door of a EL place. United are shit, no way we are making top 4.

Shitty draw at home against a team who haven't been able to buy a point for months. Shitty have a hand full of points from their last half a dozen games, yet they are nailed on for 2nd. In fact, some were saying their draw against Chavs last week basically means they are going to win the league.

I'd say Shitty are more in trouble than we are, of have I missed something?
 
soap said:
I'd much rather take advantage of Rooney's proven excellent finishing and positionimg as a striker than play Wilson became he looked good against a 4th division team
Click to expand...

It's about rewarding performances, rather than looking at the past. I agree if it were Real Madrid I would choose Rooney because he's a better player. However against Burnley at home is a great opportunity to reward a good performance and send out a message to the big names.
 
bishblaize said:
Is this difficult? He says that you need to a) win the second ball and b) play good football on the floor. First half we did neither. Second half we played better football but still failed to win the battle. So we swapped a creative player for Fellaini.

Compare that to what he said about West Ham.



ie they're winning the tackles and then they're playing football on the floor.
Click to expand...

He's dead right about us not winning the second ball enough. Januzaj and Di Maria being culprits in particular. Our whole central midfield is in a bit of a mess. Far too many lightweights. I have a lot of sympathy with Van Gaal and his "balance" comments. If we opt for creativity we get completely over-powered, opt for power and we're woefully lacking in finesse. He shares the blame for his business in the summer but it must be a nightmare picking a balanced midfield.

Obviously, many on here think Hererra is the solution to all our woes and he would definitely add some bite in the tackle. He's still looked very lightweight though. Easy to knock off the ball and - for a tallish bloke - poor in the air.

Personally, I think we could do a lot worse than give Valencia another go at the RCM role he played against Everton. Him and Rafael always look good together and complement each other very well. Valencia would sure up the right flank, defensively, with Rafael giving us a bit more flair going forwards.
 
I watched his post match interview and he seems to want how we played after we went a goal down to be how we start the match.

I'm actually of the opinion judging by the past and what he has said this season that Louis van Gaal wants to play the way we want them to play but he is struggling to get the team to start games with that tempo and intensity.

Scroll down a little bit, click on video and then choose his press conference from the right hand side.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb.html

Also he probably won't change Rooney for Herrera or anything like that because after we went a goal down that same team started creating chances, he will focus instead his efforts on getting that eleven to play with the tempo they evidently can.
 
All he has to do is drop Falcao, move Rooney up front and play either Herrera or Fellaini and we will be a much better team straight away. He keeps repeating the same mistake by pairing Falcao and RVP together and I think that reflects very poorly on him as a manager, he obviously has his reasons for doing it but it doesn’t and hasn’t worked. Ultimately that will cost him his job because I don’t think we will get in the top 4 with those two up front week in week out, we haven’t even looked like winning away from home when they play together and it just makes no sense to keep pursuing it.

I wouldn’t advocate sacking him even if we miss out on the top 4 unless he intends to sign Falcao permanently and keep RVP, I think he has a plan for how he wants us to play but he doesn’t have the right players, he has injected some belief back into the team and has started to overhaul the squad which is never easy. On the whole the results are better than the performances though and I think he is only a couple of bad results away from being under huge pressure and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Giggs as caretaker manager again for the last game or two.
 
Roboc7 said:
All he has to do is drop Falcao, move Rooney up front and play either Herrera or Fellaini and we will be a much better team straight away. He keeps repeating the same mistake by pairing Falcao and RVP together and I think that reflects very poorly on him as a manager, he obviously has his reasons for doing it but it doesn’t and hasn’t worked. Ultimately that will cost him his job because I don’t think we will get in the top 4 with those two up front week in week out, we haven’t even looked like winning away from home when they play together and it just makes no sense to keep pursuing it.

I wouldn’t advocate sacking him even if we miss out on the top 4 unless he intends to sign Falcao permanently and keep RVP, I think he has a plan for how he wants us to play but he doesn’t have the right players, he has injected some belief back into the team and has started to overhaul the squad which is never easy. On the whole the results are better than the performances though and I think he is only a couple of bad results away from being under huge pressure and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Giggs as caretaker manager again for the last game or two.
Click to expand...

To be fair they both scored in the last game so I could always see him using them again but after today that might be an option for him. Especially with a midweek game he might consider some rotation, I think it also makes sense to drop Angel di Maria to the LCM position.
 
He's doing the absolute bare minimum at the moment. He's brought the fighting spirit back which Moyes destroyed and brought in some decent players but that's about it.

It feels like we're getting results in spite of his selection and tactics not because of them. How long must he persist with something that clearly doesn't work?
 
If he is complaining about creative players not winning second balls what did he think would happen against West ham? They are a physical team. If there was a time to start Fellaini it was in this match. There are no more excuses at this point as everyone bar Carrick is healthy. So the lineup he picked he got wrong with the midfield.
 


Appalling coaching. Might as well do it because the players run around like headless chickens anyway.

There isn't a single partnership in this side. No movement. Another season of having no clue what the system of play is. They play like a bunch of strangers out there.

He's lucky the competition for top four have been all over the place.
 
Hed Zitin said:


Appalling coaching. Might as well do it because the players run around like headless chickens anyway.

There isn't a single partnership in this side. No movement. Another season of having no clue what the system of play is. They play like a bunch of strangers out there.

He's lucky the competition for top four have been all over the place.
Click to expand...

And what were the stats for Fergie? Pretty sure we only played the ball out on the floor through Evra and Rafael, all others just hoofed it. Scholes, Rooney, Giggs, Carrick have always used a fair amount of cross field passes, GKs have always done long throw outs and kicks up field. So this constant panic about long balls is pretty meaningless.

Most players are static, that is the key problem. They either stand still to meet the ball, or stand still once they get it. Most of the players who pass the ball do not go on a run to continue the move. Hence, boring, slow football.
 
Colin129 said:
Can we just get something straight here?

United draw away against a much improved West Ham side, who are knocking on the door of a EL place. United are shit, no way we are making top 4.

Shitty draw at home against a team who haven't been able to buy a point for months. Shitty have a hand full of points from their last half a dozen games, yet they are nailed on for 2nd. In fact, some were saying their draw against Chavs last week basically means they are going to win the league.

I'd say Shitty are more in trouble than we are, of have I missed something?
Click to expand...

Once Yaya comes back though I think City will pick things back up. Also Kun Aguero isn't back at full sharpness yet.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's dead right about us not winning the second ball enough. Januzaj and Di Maria being culprits in particular. Our whole central midfield is in a bit of a mess. Far too many lightweights. I have a lot of sympathy with Van Gaal and his "balance" comments. If we opt for creativity we get completely over-powered, opt for power and we're woefully lacking in finesse. He shares the blame for his business in the summer but it must be a nightmare picking a balanced midfield.

Obviously, many on here think Hererra is the solution to all our woes and he would definitely add some bite in the tackle. He's still looked very lightweight though. Easy to knock off the ball and - for a tallish bloke - poor in the air.

Personally, I think we could do a lot worse than give Valencia another go at the RCM role he played against Everton. Him and Rafael always look good together and complement each other very well. Valencia would sure up the right flank, defensively, with Rafael giving us a bit more flair going forwards.
Click to expand...

I think you have a point, I think theres also a case for tailoring your team to suit the opponent, yesterday, in an away game that for the past 20 odd years, we've have to down, pull up our socks and grind out a result ...he comes out and plays Di Maria & Januzaj in the middle..
I'm as big a fan of Januzaj as anyone but yesterday was not the game to throw him in, it was a tailor made game for a Fellaini 'enforcer' type in the middle and perhaps Cambridge at OT was the game to give Adnan a go.

I hardly think Giggs will be feeding him duff information that we can go down to Upton Park and expect to fanny around to a win.
 
Hed Zitin said:


Appalling coaching. Might as well do it because the players run around like headless chickens anyway.

There isn't a single partnership in this side. No movement. Another season of having no clue what the system of play is. They play like a bunch of strangers out there.

He's lucky the competition for top four have been all over the place.
Click to expand...


Damn lies alert.

We play more passes than anyone bar City, so yes we play more long balls. It also means we've also completed more short passes than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool (from squawka)

We certainly play more long balls as a mix of our total passing. However as per the telegraph article above, we're 8th in the league in terms of long balls as a % of our total play. A long way from any "3rd in Europe" hysteria.

Not that this fact translates well onto twitter.
 
Colin129 said:
Can we just get something straight here?

United draw away against a much improved West Ham side, who are knocking on the door of a EL place. United are shit, no way we are making top 4.

Shitty draw at home against a team who haven't been able to buy a point for months. Shitty have a hand full of points from their last half a dozen games, yet they are nailed on for 2nd. In fact, some were saying their draw against Chavs last week basically means they are going to win the league.

I'd say Shitty are more in trouble than we are, of have I missed something?
Click to expand...


Well it depends. If you go from comparing City winning the league and compare it to our chances to finish in the top 4, then yeah they may be in worse shape in that unless Chelsea start dropping points they are not going to win it. Where as we are still somewhat in control of our own fate.

But if you look at it in terms of say finishing in the top 4, City look a lock, and we are mired in the thick of the battle. We control our own fate to some extent, but by no mean guaranteed.

If you look at it in terms of winning the league, we have no hope, while City still has a small chance.

So not sure we can really say City are in more trouble than us.
 
JustAFan said:
Well it depends. If you go from comparing City winning the league and compare it to our chances to finish in the top 4, then yeah they may be in worse shape in that unless Chelsea start dropping points they are not going to win it. Where as we are still somewhat in control of our own fate.

But if you look at it in terms of say finishing in the top 4, City look a lock, and we are mired in the thick of the battle. We control our own fate to some extent, but by no mean guaranteed.

If you look at it in terms of winning the league, we have no hope, while City still has a small chance.

So not sure we can really say City are in more trouble than us.
Click to expand...
No other team should come into the equation anyway. We're talking about what we expect from a team wearing our shirt, how we expect them to play. At the moment they're falling far below our expectations in that respect, no team in the league is frightened of playing us and they all think they're in with a chance of beating us no matter if it's at home home or away.
 
Colin129 said:
Can we just get something straight here?

United draw away against a much improved West Ham side, who are knocking on the door of a EL place. United are shit, no way we are making top 4.

Shitty draw at home against a team who haven't been able to buy a point for months. Shitty have a hand full of points from their last half a dozen games, yet they are nailed on for 2nd. In fact, some were saying their draw against Chavs last week basically means they are going to win the league.

I'd say Shitty are more in trouble than we are, of have I missed something?
Click to expand...

They're only five points ahead of us as well , beat them at home and...
Your problem is that you're not a hysterical schoolboy:rolleyes:
 
bishblaize said:
Damn lies alert.

We play more passes than anyone bar City, so yes we play more long balls. It also means we've also completed more short passes than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool (from squawka)

We certainly play more long balls as a mix of our total passing. However as per the telegraph article above, we're 8th in the league in terms of long balls as a % of our total play. A long way from any "3rd in Europe" hysteria.

Not that this fact translates well onto twitter.
Click to expand...

They don't tend to keep passing the ball between the defenders and keeper all game, that's the reason we are high on short passes. Most of the passes we play in the final 3rd are mis hit or long balls.
 
In my opinion we need some reality check here.

a- we can't play 3 strikers concurrently especially when 2 of them are goal poachers who don't like to drop deep at all. Our midfield is simply too light weight to permit more then 1 striker upfront and even under such condition that striker must be ready to drop deep and work for the ball if needed

b - strikers/wingers/defenders cannot do a better job in CM to a CM. Herrera and Fellaini are better then Rooney and Januzaj in midfield.

c- we play in the EPL, and in the EPL the flanks cannot be ignored. Today's wingers can cut inside, they can create and score goals. However you need that extra body in the flanks or else you risk of getting overrun.

d- Its time we stop playing wingers in defense. If we lack fullbacks then we have to buy some. If our fullbacks are never available then what's the point of keeping them?

In my opinion we need to revert to 4-3-3. Get Herrera-Fellaini-Blind in CM, Di Maria and Januzaj/Valencia on the flanks and Rooney upfront. If we're dominating our opponents then (and only then) we may consider tweaking the system, maybe by reverting to 4-2-3-1 with Mata (or Rooney) playing behind Falcao/RVP. What's the point of having 3 strikers in the team if the ball rarely leaves our own half?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
They're only five points ahead of us as well , beat them at home and...
Your problem is that you're not a hysterical schoolboy:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Oh right, how about this?

OHNOES.gif
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
They don't tend to keep passing the ball between the defenders and keeper all game, that's the reason we are high on short passes. Most of the passes we play in the final 3rd are mis hit or long balls.
Click to expand...

I looked for comparative stats on that but I couldnt find any. Squawka wont give you territorial stats (that I could find) on a cumulative basis.
 
You can see why Aloysius seemingly doesnt stay too long at clubs. But I thought he was suppose to infuriate us at the end and not the start.
 
BennyBlanco said:
I hardly think Giggs will be feeding him duff information that we can go down to Upton Park and expect to fanny around to a win.
Click to expand...

What does that mean? That Giggs is backstabbing Van Gaal?

If that's the case (which I cannot tell, but have to see as a possibility), then Giggs should be on the sacklist.
 
devilish said:
In my opinion we need some reality check here.

a- we can't play 3 strikers concurrently especially when 2 of them are goal poachers who don't like to drop deep at all. Our midfield is simply too light weight to permit more then 1 striker upfront and even under such condition that striker must be ready to drop deep and work for the ball if needed

b - strikers/wingers/defenders cannot do a better job in CM to a CM. Herrera and Fellaini are better then Rooney and Januzaj in midfield.

c- we play in the EPL, and in the EPL the flanks cannot be ignored. Today's wingers can cut inside, they can create and score goals. However you need that extra body in the flanks or else you risk of getting overrun.

d- Its time we stop playing wingers in defense. If we lack fullbacks then we have to buy some. If our fullbacks are never available then what's the point of keeping them?

In my opinion we need to revert to 4-3-3. Get Herrera-Fellaini-Blind in CM, Di Maria and Januzaj/Valencia on the flanks and Rooney upfront. If we're dominating our opponents then (and only then) we may consider tweaking the system, maybe by reverting to 4-2-3-1 with Mata (or Rooney) playing behind Falcao/RVP. What's the point of having 3 strikers in the team if the ball rarely leaves our own half?
Click to expand...

Well Mr VG needs to learn these lessons of not playing 3 strikers with very little movement.
 
bishblaize said:
Damn lies alert.

We play more passes than anyone bar City, so yes we play more long balls. It also means we've also completed more short passes than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool (from squawka)

We certainly play more long balls as a mix of our total passing. However as per the telegraph article above, we're 8th in the league in terms of long balls as a % of our total play. A long way from any "3rd in Europe" hysteria.

Not that this fact translates well onto twitter.
Click to expand...

Most of those passes are sideways and backward between the fullback, CB's, Keeper and Blind. Utterly meaningless passes. Those are merely padding.

It's not all hoof though. There's long passes from Rooney to Valencia out wide and Di Maria putting shaped balls into the box etc. Still there are too many long balls.
 
He's a manager that likes to blow his own trumpet when he does something right but is incapable of admitting it when he gets it wrong. The only thing that's saving his arse is that we're currently in the top four, mainly because those around us have been equally as inconsistent, the thing is they've all made progress and are now improving and we're still scratching our heads trying to work out what it is exactly that he's trying to do. The fact that he's got a more impressive cv and a more charismatic personna make him instantly more likeable then Moyes, but that only gets you so far if the overall results are only marginally better.
 
JON.B said:
He's a manager that likes to blow his own trumpet when he does something right but is incapable of admitting it when he gets it wrong. The only thing that's saving his arse is that we're currently in the top four, mainly because those around us have been equally as inconsistent, the thing is they've all made progress and are now improving and we're still scratching our heads trying to work out what it is exactly that he's trying to do. The fact that he's got a more impressive cv and a more charismatic personna make him instantly more likeable then Moyes, but that only gets you so far if the overall results are only marginally better.
Click to expand...
Name a manager that isn't like that?
 
He's nearly as unpopular as Moyes on here at this point. :nervous:

Still believe in him, and believe his track record deserves respect.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He's nearly as unpopular as Moyes on here at this point. :nervous:

Still believe in him, and believe his track record deserves respect.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's even close to that level yet, but the rumblings are getting louder. Given that we could be 6th by this time tomorrow a few more voices might be added.
 
Getsme said:
I don't think it's even close to that level yet, but the rumblings are getting louder. Given that we could be 6th by this time tomorrow a few more voices might be added.
Click to expand...
He definitely is in the match day and post match threads, there's some genuine hatred there.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He definitely is in the match day and post match threads, there's some genuine hatred there.
Click to expand...
Yeah true, but until we have a LVG sack watch thread then I think the tide is still in his favour.
 
Getsme said:
Debatable. I don't think there is any manager who will truly put the blame on themselves.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you as a general point, that managers dont take responsibility. I think in isolated cases they do. Like you said, its debatable, you could make the case both ways. To make the case that Guardiola does, for example, there is this extract from a Telegraph article.

When he is like this – depressed, silent and brooding – it’s because he blames himself for something. He isn’t about to blame the Bayern players for their weak performances. He holds himself responsible for not managing to bring out their potential, for not finding the right words or exercises, for not putting them in the correct positions or providing the launch pad they need to express themselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-coach-Pep-Guardiola-driven-by-obsession.html
Click to expand...

It isnt rare for managers to "accept full responsibility", except you can tell they actually dont, whether or not there is an explicit "but" following such a statement. But Guardiola does seem to be different to other managers in a lot of respects, and maybe in this one. Maybe a similar case could be made for Klopp as Jon said, I havent seen so much of him.
 
Getsme said:
I don't think it's even close to that level yet, but the rumblings are getting louder. Given that we could be 6th by this time tomorrow a few more voices might be added.
Click to expand...

I am not convinced by him what so ever, many can go about his past, which is the problem, it's what he does now is the problem, and he thinks what he has done done justifies some awful decisions he is doing, that can give him time.

What I see of him under United, is a very defensive minded coach, relying on his so called reputation, and obsessed with stats over results. He over complicates selections, which his selections contradict each other. So he wants right and left Cb's and CM's, yet he plays our most creative players out of position, yea that makes sense, LOL.

Like I say, I think we have got him at the wrong age, and what we have seen so far he comes across has an ageing manager.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.