Pogba wasn't a word class player when he went there, they can definitely attract promising youngsters.Except Pogba
Juventus and Milan are at fault for the downfall of Serie A. The calciopoli scandal definitely hit the league hard.
United Risking a Vicious Cycle?
- Thread starter Adebesi
- Start date
I think there is still enough quality in this team for a top manager like Van Gaal to just about scrape a top 4 spot, regardless of who we do or do not sign. The thing is, we should be aiming to mount a serious challenge and some obvious strengthening needs to be done to do that.
I agree that there's probably just about enough in the current team with LVG to at least realistically challenge for top 4. Hell, even Moyes had that going for half the season. IMO there is simply no way we don't strengthen at all. Even in the absolute worst case scenario, I think we will sign 3 players. That will help us, regardless of quality. Also figure we most likely will have a better injury record. So unless LVG is a complete disaster, I can only see us performing better and getting better results. That should at least delay any vicious cycle stuff
You might be right. But with the top 4 strengthening and our midfield aging another year, I think it'd be touch and go.
In all seriousness, I don't think we need a world class midfielder. One would be great, but we could get top 4 without. But we do need to improve on what we have in that position. And if we don't sign a defender or two we'll be putting ourselves at the mercy of fate, a few injuries and we'll have big problems.
I think it's far too early in this window to start panicking.
I can say this: we were sure we would buy a cm in 2009....there were many claiming we would defo get one....you know how it ended
I'm editing the title because everytime I look at it I see "Vicious circle jerk" instead of "Vicious circle risk" and, yes, I've already marked this post as 'dirty'.
@Adebesi just to cheer you up a bit.
https://t.co/Om0o7KA4nh
Signing top players -
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One for the next season -
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https://t.co/Om0o7KA4nh
Signing top players -
One for the next season -
United risking a circle jerk?
That's why I went with cycle over circle, they are interchangable.
This is our first bad year in decades, it happens to most top clubs in europe, this is one of the biggest clubs in the world, some may view this as arrogance but it's the truth, we're big enough and financially strong enough to bounce from this, and i think we've learned from our mistakes last season, it's early June and there's no reason to panic just yet.
The strength of our league and commercial power of the United brand will ensure we can compete over the next few seasons (transfer market wise). The Italian league crumbled with a scandal and multiple clubs fell away.
In terms of next season this is why many didn't want Europa League, we can concentrate on the premiership. We still have a good squad we just need to get them to actually perform like they did under Ferguson whilst we fill a few gaps. Nobody is saying we will win the title and challenge Madrid to be the best in Europe once again, that will take time, but we should be in a position to achieve top 4.
I mean Spurs always think they will do it and we aren't that bad.
In terms of next season this is why many didn't want Europa League, we can concentrate on the premiership. We still have a good squad we just need to get them to actually perform like they did under Ferguson whilst we fill a few gaps. Nobody is saying we will win the title and challenge Madrid to be the best in Europe once again, that will take time, but we should be in a position to achieve top 4.
I mean Spurs always think they will do it and we aren't that bad.
Spot on Zizo.
Yeah, I can't think of any recent examples of a club going from 7th to s title challenge in one season....
I guess what is always at the back of my mind is that football is cyclical (circlical?), you get teams like Liverpool who dominate fir decades and then fall away for as long. Couldn't that happen to us? Or had the money in football made that so unlikely as to be virtually impossible?
"vicious circle jerk" is probably a good name for the Twitter thread
Fortunately success is based on more than buying the best players in the world.
We challenged for honours when City had spent a heinous amount of money, and they just made it past the line last season regardless of the fact they had spent nearly ten times more on their squad than Liverpool.
We are the biggest team in the country and one of the biggest in the world, we had a fortress of a stadium and we play with flare, passion and aggression.
With the right manager and our support, our team can accomplish anything.
We need to get back to our old swagger, and that comes from within, not the next big name signing.
We challenged for honours when City had spent a heinous amount of money, and they just made it past the line last season regardless of the fact they had spent nearly ten times more on their squad than Liverpool.
We are the biggest team in the country and one of the biggest in the world, we had a fortress of a stadium and we play with flare, passion and aggression.
With the right manager and our support, our team can accomplish anything.
We need to get back to our old swagger, and that comes from within, not the next big name signing.
Back in topic, I don't think we're at the vicious cycle yet.
If we kept Moyes then maybe but with LVG, most players would assume it'll be a temporary absence from the CL and hence wouldn't factor too much.
We might need to pay a bit better than before but should still be able to attract the players want.
I think the team needs revitalising more than anything else. We added just Fellaini last season, who was injured for most of it. The squad was basically the same as the year before, Januzaj came in and out and Mata joined in January, by which point confidence was on the floor. It needs new blood and some confidence injecting into it, if we can get the players playing with their heads up again i don't think we need half a team like the media seem to think.
Not sure if serious. If you are, then you're being a bit dramatic over nothing.
Our case is very unique though. Usually teams who are 7th were round and about there the few seasons before that. We were champions the season before (quite comfortably too) and were in the CL quarters. We definitely have the quality to bounce back to at least challenge for top four or even three.
I always thought the reason some people now say cycle was people from New York trying to say circle.
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Is that Weaste?
Well, I think most footballers can see the squad still has some quality and depth. I definitely believe United still have quality to aim for the top 4. We just need a few key reinforcements here and there. With some money, LvG's brand name, Man Utd's brand name and a realistic charge for top 4 (maybe even a title charge since we get to focus on the Leage), I think attracting players is still possible. A lot harder without CL this season, but still possible.
The bottom line is that we've begin to climb out of the hole Moyes dug for for us when Louis was hired. We shall see, however, whether the Glazers are willing to pay top dollar for top players. A few tweaks are all that's needed to reclaim fourth spot. As for competing for top honors that's going to take 4 or maybe 5 major signings.
Lack of CL won't help, however the rot started long before this season. We accumulated too much deadwood throughout the years and used the heart more then the brains in terms of who should stay and who should go. It seem that the vibe is that you remain at the club for what you have done in the past or what you may offer in the future (the next season will be his year type of mentality) rather then on what you did in the present.
Its time we look at ourselves and decide in a rational way. If you ask me we've got a very unbalanced side with a quality goalkeeper and forward line on one side and a very weak defense and midfield on the other. Our CBs are inconsistent and injury prone, our flank men are incredibly predictable (apart from Januzaj) and god knows how one can describe our CM without risking a ban. With Rio, Vidic, Giggs and hopefully Anderson gone, Carrick in decline and the likes of Valencia, Young, Fletcher and Nani not producing the goods on a regular basis for ages, its time for a massive change. No wonder why Scholes see the need for us signing 6 players.
Its time we look at ourselves and decide in a rational way. If you ask me we've got a very unbalanced side with a quality goalkeeper and forward line on one side and a very weak defense and midfield on the other. Our CBs are inconsistent and injury prone, our flank men are incredibly predictable (apart from Januzaj) and god knows how one can describe our CM without risking a ban. With Rio, Vidic, Giggs and hopefully Anderson gone, Carrick in decline and the likes of Valencia, Young, Fletcher and Nani not producing the goods on a regular basis for ages, its time for a massive change. No wonder why Scholes see the need for us signing 6 players.
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Juventus has always worked within a budget. However I don't think that players like Tevez and Llorente are shabby players aren't they?
Nothing? The whole world is coming down around our ears and you say nothing?
We cant be out of the CL for two season in a row. That would be devastating to the club both in terms of actual performance as well as financially. The level of sponsors we have would not want to give their money to a club that is performing at the level of Everton. CL football is an absolute must next season and the club/LvG/players need to do everything they can in order to fulfill that goal. From there we can further build upon the squad to actually challenge for the PL title the season after.
The fact Liverpool still manage to attract some pretty decent players lately should answer your question.
20+ years without a title.
Recently out of CL for what, 4 season in a row?
Almost went into administration.
Still were able to attract several players like Torres, Suarez, Mascherano etc and are generally linked with a lot of players.
So at the stage we are now, still have world class players, recently won the title, pretty recently won the CL, top European coach and not too much worry with spending etc something tells me we should be OK.
If Liverpool is the comparison we are making then I think I'll carry on worrying, frankly.
It will all depend on next seasons outcome I think. We can still attract players due to our 'big club' image for now but missing out on UCL two seasons in a row will give cause for concern to the top talent.
Our ability to attract players has a lot to do with the stature of the club and the sort of wages we're willing to play - not where we happened to finish last year. We just smashed a our transfer record a few months ago and signed a top manager in Van Gaal. There are some who are understandably nervy about a repeat of last year's summer transfer debacle, but I doubt that will happen in terms of not signing anyone then having to panic on a player like Fellaini at the end.
In all seriousness (and yes I was being facetious before) while I am nervous about what will happen in the tarnsfer window this summer, I am more relaxed about next season because I think we can do a lot better than we did last season with only minor additions, even factoring in the loss of Vidic and Rio. I think a better manager and more focus will go a long way.
I think we will struggle in the transfer window, not because we havent signed anyone already but because i think players place more emphasis on CL football straight away than you are saying. I might be wrong of course. But I think itll make a material difference. I dont think the stature of the club counts for much - if by that you mean relating to history. I think history is very low dowen the list of priorities for players. Wages, CL football, chance of silverware are important. And I dont think we are leaders in any of those categories right now.
BUT, if we scrape back into the CL next summer we may be able to do a bit more shopping then.
I hope I am proved wrong of course.
Woodward is surely smart enough to know his job is on the line if we don't reinforce this summer. The fans won't put up with him like with Moyes - calls for him to be fired will be immediate. I can't see LVG or Fergie or Gill or anyone else coming to his rescue and plead for patience if we don't get it done this summer. He simply doesn't have the track record to deserve more time. We've already seen Scholes, Schmeichel, and others specifically mention him and how he needs to get it done. So, with that in mind, I feel like he'll do everything he can to bring in new players, as quickly as possibly, because he's got no excuse left.
I think you're being far too pessimistic. Its very early days still and the transfer window hasn't even officially opened yet. We also have the WC as a huge distraction - at least for those in it. As far as attracting players is concerned, besides being United which is still one of the top three global football brands, we have one of the best club managers for whom many would want to play. We also have the financial resources to pay the required transfer fees and to offer very competitive contracts. Although we do not have European football next season there is a very good chance that it wont take United long to get firmly back on track. Obviously for those at clubs with ECL football next season, this is a bit of a come down, but all the other benefits are there. In short, and with that one proviso, there's no real reason why we cant attract just about whomever we want to. Provided of course Ed doesn't try to get too clever!
The post you replied to was a bit tongue in cheek. The one two above yours is a more accurate reflection of how I feel. Which is still pretty pessimistic, but not quite as hysterical.
Louis van Gaal is too good of a coach to not have a team finish in the top four. Fckin relax people
I think this is a bit complacent. He has won the league wherever he has been. But his record is not without blemishes.
I am confident he'll get us back into the top 4 but I dont think its a given because he has this immaculate record of winning or being in the top 3 wherever he has gone.
Woodward is the Glazer's man, and I don't think fan discontent will remove him. If he presides over another shambles this summer, most likely a DoF will be hired who'll take over responsibility for the future signing of players.
Which mightn't be a bad idea anyway. If things with LvG don't work out, the club might be entering a period of instability - hiring and firing managers regularly in the next ten years. Particularly with absentee owners, we need a football knowledge base at the top of club to provide continuity.