We do have a player whose job currently when played in midfield is to look pretty - Phil Jones.
United in this Summer transfer window
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
- Start date
Fletcher has done it for years. Prior until about 2009 when he really flourished as an all round central midfielder.
Players like Lucas or de Jong. Ultimately rubbish technically but great at being tight in deeper midfield. Maybe not buying one, but have one coming through or something. I guess united is still all about that next step up player. Rather than the technically limited DM.
Players like Lucas or de Jong. Ultimately rubbish technically but great at being tight in deeper midfield. Maybe not buying one, but have one coming through or something. I guess united is still all about that next step up player. Rather than the technically limited DM.
I find it strange that, even though it appears that we never even spoke to Thiago, we waited till he left to try and get Cesc from Barca?
Surely we would of been aware of the situation with Thiago and Cesc, and tried to push through a deal for Cesc before Barca let Thiago go?
Surely we would of been aware of the situation with Thiago and Cesc, and tried to push through a deal for Cesc before Barca let Thiago go?
Watching javi Martinez against barca, he really did tame iniesta and messi through a combination of great instinct and brute force. I'd argue that in addition to someone like fabregas we need a player like martinez who can completely disrupt opposition players while still being having quality on the ball.
Exactly, Thiago going was the best thing Cesc could have hoped for and similarly if we'd have bid for Cesc when Thiago was still there there would have been more weight to Barca's promises.
Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, they're a rare breed. They only one I can recall that I've seen more than a handful of times (and don't think is a complete cnut) is Martinez' midfield partner. Defo in a gay way.
Completely agree but there isn't too many of those types around.
Yeah, it makes no sense. Thiago going makes it a lot easier for Cesc to get more games. And with Villa gone also and only Neymar coming in, it should mean more games for Cesc.
One thing that I have observed so far is that there surely can't be as much planning of projected signings going on behind the scenes during the season as I'd have thought.
Generally, I'd always been of the view that targets would not only be identified well before the window opens, but would also be sounded out to guage interest etc behind the scenes. There simply isn't that much time during the window to initiate such complex dealings from scratch.
Take Fabregas as an example. From early reports, he had been a long identified target of ours. However, on the surface at least, it appears the logistics of executing such a deal had not been explored until about a fecking week ago. Of course, the public show could be very different from the actual dealings, but it is of little use deciding months ago that you have a 'number one target' only to bid for him weeks before the season starts in order to discover that he is neither willing to join you nor is his club willing to sell.
Perhaps a lot of these deals actually just start from scratch during the summer after all, either that or once the market opens, several factors cause pre-agreed situations to alter.
Generally, I'd always been of the view that targets would not only be identified well before the window opens, but would also be sounded out to guage interest etc behind the scenes. There simply isn't that much time during the window to initiate such complex dealings from scratch.
Take Fabregas as an example. From early reports, he had been a long identified target of ours. However, on the surface at least, it appears the logistics of executing such a deal had not been explored until about a fecking week ago. Of course, the public show could be very different from the actual dealings, but it is of little use deciding months ago that you have a 'number one target' only to bid for him weeks before the season starts in order to discover that he is neither willing to join you nor is his club willing to sell.
Perhaps a lot of these deals actually just start from scratch during the summer after all, either that or once the market opens, several factors cause pre-agreed situations to alter.
I refuse to believe that Manchester United doesn't at all times got a list of interesting players for each position that might be subject of a bid.
I think the Fabregas bid is a result of his agent letting us know that this might happen, perhaps as some sort of contract negotiation tool. The, even remote, chance that it could happen has prompted the club to try. As Moyes would want a marquee signing as his first name in the door, we're waiting a bit on other deals and trying for as long as possible to get it to happen.
I think the Fabregas bid is a result of his agent letting us know that this might happen, perhaps as some sort of contract negotiation tool. The, even remote, chance that it could happen has prompted the club to try. As Moyes would want a marquee signing as his first name in the door, we're waiting a bit on other deals and trying for as long as possible to get it to happen.
So far this summer we've seen Goetze and Thiago go to Munich; Isco, Illaramendi and Casemiro sign for Madrid; even Van Ginkel to Chelsea. Last year we saw Martinez and Verratti amongst others (like Pogba) move. Seemingly without much interest from United despite them being classic young upcoming talents in the United buying tradition.
Which I can only guess means we're looking for something different. More experience, different skill set, different body type, different positions. There's obviously something in our specification that means we're not bidding on players that are (or were) on the market. Neither the young ones or even the older ones like Mata and Cazorla.
So what is it we're looking for? What has Cesc got that the other guys hadn't - Premiership time served or something else. Whatever it is, I'm having a hard time seeing many candidates.
Let's hope our kids, who are still easily the best thing about our pre-season, have got the answer.
Which I can only guess means we're looking for something different. More experience, different skill set, different body type, different positions. There's obviously something in our specification that means we're not bidding on players that are (or were) on the market. Neither the young ones or even the older ones like Mata and Cazorla.
So what is it we're looking for? What has Cesc got that the other guys hadn't - Premiership time served or something else. Whatever it is, I'm having a hard time seeing many candidates.
Let's hope our kids, who are still easily the best thing about our pre-season, have got the answer.
That's fair enough.
That said, surely, even if 'tapping up is illegal', we should have come into this window with one or two players already contacted about their availability and confirmed their interest in joining us and their clubs potential openness to sell already? Otherwise we are just pissing in the wind. Our plan has to have been a bit better than 'we will just go into the market and bid for the best midfielders at the best clubs in the world at their market value and hope we get the deal done. If not, we'll just get on with it.'
This has been a shite summer thus far. Absolutely shite. 
This is the thing I don't get. There's been absolutely loads of talented CM's shifting clubs these last three or four summers, but we've never so much as tried to sign any of them as far as we're aware.
I don't got this, but for sure Moyes doesn't not got it.
Our current CM predicament is one of SAF's very few mistakes in his tenure. I wouldn't blame Moyes at all if we don't manage to add a significant player in that position in this window. The club is trying, it's just that most of them have already moved, joined some other team or are settled.
Yea true. I've been curious all summer to see exactly where Fergie's transfer strategy stops and Moyes' begins. I mean, we've campaigned for years for a midfield re-vamp, with our manager seemingly either oblivious to our weakness there, or simply not prioritising it. Then Moyes comes in, almost as if he could glaringly see from the outside what needs fixing in this team and declares 'we must strengthen the midfield'. Fergie continued to deliver trophies so he cannot be questioned really, but it almost doesn't look great on him that it has taken a new manager to, with almost his first assignment, declare the need for midfield improvement.
In fairness, he did say 'we discussed areas we could improve and we agreed the midfield'. So this could mean that if Fergie did not retire, he would have suddenly acknowledged the need this summer. Although I almost find it difficult to imagine Fergie going all out for a midfielder after recent years. Just that from an armchair perspective, everyone has spoken of the need for years, and as has been pointed out, several quality midfielders have moved in recent years who would have quite possibly been more attainable than Cesc. Many people 'joked' in the thread surrounding Fergie's retirement that 'hopefully the new man will buy a midfielder'. Incidentally, it was the very first thing he has tried to do.
I think midfield is a notoriously difficult position to sign someone with the way we set up. It needs to be someone who can work in tandem with another midfielder, and he'll need to be able to cover a lot of ground as well as be a clever player defensively. Of course, passing ability and creativeness goes without saying.
We don't play as much of a narrow 4-2-3-1 as other teams so the space between our midfielders and our attackers are bigger than most teams, which is a challenge.
Perhaps Moyes will adjust this somewhat?
Fergie did sign Anderson and Hargreaves in 2007, if both of them had worked out it would have been a completely different story. His mistake was in not identifying that both were relative failures.
We don't play as much of a narrow 4-2-3-1 as other teams so the space between our midfielders and our attackers are bigger than most teams, which is a challenge.
Perhaps Moyes will adjust this somewhat?
Fergie did sign Anderson and Hargreaves in 2007, if both of them had worked out it would have been a completely different story. His mistake was in not identifying that both were relative failures.
McCarthy and one of Fellaini/Parker/Barry/Kondogbia please. I'd rub one out!
Easily pleased.
- Semi at best.
- Semi at best.
Are we going to sign anyone ever again?
Yes.
I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out sooner, to be honest.
Phew. That was a nervous few seconds.
You are welcome
It is strange isn't it?
The sceptic in me is saying that it's the club's way of appearing to go for the marquee players (and the ones the fans would like to see at OT) whilst taking comfort from knowing that they are extremely unlikely to get them and so won't have to fork out any transfer money. That way we're reasonably happy because we still think they've got money to spend and they're still appearing a big player in the transfer market. Would explain the Modric and Sneijder failures over the past couple of seasons anyway.
Keep seeing this stupid statement time and time again! Our midfield have won 5 out the last7 leagues we have lost Fletcher and Hargreaves earlier than expected! We don't have a sugar daddy Fergie spent his money on other areas and gas kept us at the top of the league and competitive in Europe! Where is his mistake? I'm sure if he had a bottomless pit he would have addressed a few positions not just midfield but to say it was a mistake is unbelievably arrogant in my opinion.
Parker? Barry? McCarthy?
Cripes man, how lowly do you rate Cleverley out of interest!?
Fellaini is a different type of midfielder to Cleverley, but wouldn't bring any of his crisp and dynamic play
The midfield is a mess, Fergie successfully papered over the cracks but his successor now faces the uphill task of rebuilding it and our only reliable and quality midfielder is 32.
When Scholes retired in 2011, we should have signed a midfielder at the absolute latest. Instead Fergie didn't do anything, recalled Scholes then even gave him a contract extension. Loyalty is admirable but not always prudent.
Also, talking about not having a bottomless pit of money and moaning about sugar daddies sounds a bit stupid when you consider we paid 18M for Ashley Young who had one year left on his contract.
Hardly a mess Carrick Cleverley Anderson Jones Giggs Kagawa 3 English internationalists in it. Carrick being the best English midfielder around just now.
You dont win honours year after year by "papering over the cracks"
Yes you do, Fergie was a master at it. Look at Lawman's posts above, he lists a soon-to-be 40-year old winger and a defender among our midfield options, alongside the perennially unfit and ever so underwhelming Anderson. Fergie, somehow, cruised to the league title with this collection which was a remarkable achievement. We shouldn't expect Moyes to repeat it.
Pretty much just bollocks to all of this transfer nonsense really. This has gone exactly the opposite of what I was hoping so far. Not ruling out that things might get a lot better but I am going to take a self imposed exile from the transfer forum next week. Regain some sanity. Try and get some actually work done.
Parker and Barry are ironwarriors, they will sweat blood for you and Barry was a key player when city won the league.
they add something different to our side and are not in the cleverley mould.
McCarthy is a superb talent and would do big big things for us is my belief.
Fellaini is world class material, he is waiting to burst out of his egg like Cell from Dragonball Z, you watch him transform us if he signs.
I dont think that's "papering over the cracks". Fergie planned everything meticulously - in order to make the squad more "flexible", most players were asked to play in more than one position - some even more. He used to get lot of criticism for this as some experiments failed but most of them were a success. It helped the squad and also the players' personal development.
These statements leave me speechless. How can one be so blind is beyond me.
First at all Jones, Giggs, Kagawa are not cms. Simple as that. I will repeat: they are not central midfielders. the fact that they can have occasional good game doesn't change the fact that you are right- they are not central midfielders.
Anderson get injured or is out of from for at least a third of each season, Cleverley is similar in this regard.
That leaves us with Carrick who is great but his preferred way of playing the game limits us to certain extend.
So we have 1 reliable midfielder, 2 semi-reliable and bunch of people who could do a job there. In emergency situations. So basically its 3 people competing for 2 spots.
Compare it to: Rooney (9,10), Kagawa (10), Giggs (10), Young (10), Januzaj (10), Hernadez (9), Welbeck (9,10), RVP (9,10) competing for two spots in our attack (depending on set-up). That's 6 players who competete for 2 slots and extra 2 who could do the job when needed.
Or to this: Vida, Rio, Smalling, Evans, Jones, Keane- that's 5 class players competing for 2 slots and one extra body.
I want everybody to understand this: playing Rooney, Jones, Giggs in cm position is papering over cracks. This midfield needs at least two specialized midfielders to give the mangers options.
I'd rather pour salt down my jap sign than watch Parker or Barry in a United shirt.
Ridonculous.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/8842372?
Paul Scholes hopes Manchester United can sign Cesc Fabregas
Paul Scholes hopes Manchester United can sign Cesc Fabregas