United’s next manager

[red thru&thru]

Pochettino is a very good manager. The Tifo video of him and comparing his end with Klopps end at Dortmund is fascinating to watch. People really need to watch it, to understand how things fell off at Spurs.

Ole deserves his chance but the problem is, he will be scrutinised even more with Poch available. I just want my club to be winning again, so with Ole or Poch, I don't care. But if Ole doesn't get us top 4 at the end of the season and there's no real sign of progress, he needs to go. But in the meantime, incompetent Ed needs to have sounded out Poch and tapped up Marco Rose. So if Ole needs replacing, it would be one of these two, hopefully Rose.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Poch or Rogers will be next United manager, we will finish 8-10 and Ole will get sacked its as simple as that. If not now, (which should be) then at the end of the season.

And by then Poch will be in Madrid, Rodgers will be playing CL football with a more exciting project, Allegri will be at Arsenal, leaving us Emery but the club will decide to go with Steve Bruce because he's a club legend.

 

[Buster15]

Why are we so unlucky? We always seem a step behind. Why did Spurs sack Poch right now? What if they waited until end of March? He may well have been our next manager. Now we will stick with Ole and probably end up midtable and Poch will get hired by another club before the end of the season and we will be stuck as usual.

Highly likely. We missed out on Jose when Sir Alex Ferguson retired and unless we move quickly we will miss out on Pochettino as well.
The most successful organisations are those who are agile and move quickly.
The least stressful are those who dither and shy away from making tough decisions.

 

[RedRover]

I hear what you're saying and this seems to be the common narrative but Spurs only achieved what they achieved in a time when United, Arsenal and Chelsea have been going through major transition. All things considered, Spurs would have still been the 5th or 6th best team in the league if the other clubs hadn't dropped the ball.

Also, all the players Pochettino 'brought through' were there when he joined. He had a slight clear out and didn't have the money to spend so he had no option to trust the likes of Kane, Ali and Dier. He's got lucky with a couple of them but the rest aren't much to shout about.

The only reason I think Rodgers is a better fit than Pochettino is because of the experience he has in a title run-in. Moyes had a similar profile to Pochettino (most people are forgetting this) and he was handed a title winning side that were certainly not on the decline. We all know how that turned out.

If you've won titles you know what it takes to win titles and you know how to deal with key situations that happen throughout the season. I'd even be happy to bet that Rodgers wins the PL, or equivalent before Pochettino does. I have a feeling he's going to really struggle in his next role if it's at a big club with big expectations.

Regarding the first point, you can’t criticise him for others failings. Plenty of managers have been better resourced and achieved less. The bulk of United’s success in the PL has been at a time before there were 4 or 5 teams potentially capable of winning the league (and often it was one, or at best two). I wouldn’t use that to criticise Fergie. You can only compete against what’s in front of you.

The second point is a plus for me. He used what he had and improved those players. But he also largely bought well, when needed. There are (or have been) numerous players over his tenure who would have been regulars at top 4 clubs and few who did come in did so for big money.

I don’t get the Rodgers love in. Celtic is irrelevant - Martin O’Neill and Neill Lennon won titles up there. He’s doing very well with Leicester, under very little pressure and with a good squad he’s had little impact in building so far. He may go on to do very well but he hasn’t performed as consistently in the PL as Pochettino, in my opinion.

Pochettino took an average side and made them an established top 4 side, developing young players and investing wisely. He’s the reason a Jose Mourinho now sees them as viable. There is no guarantee he’ll make the step up but he’s as likely as any manager to do so.

 

[Adnan]

 

[Bobcat]

Who they are and what they did in the past is exactly what makes them the manager they are now. It’s naive to ignore this especially when it’s the reason Jose currently just got a job. End of the day Ole is just basics and I doubt your not even impressed about hard work squad harmony.

Its not completely irrelevant, but Poch doing what he did at Spurs is no guarantee he would do well here. Apples and oranges really. Regarding Jose, i am pretty confident that will not end well at Spurs. Not for him and not for the club.

And hard work and squad harmony is really fecking important. Lack of those is the reason Jose lost his job here and its also the reason Poch is currently unemployed. You can have the most talented players in the world, but if they are not willing to put in some effort and if they are unhappy you wont do well

 

[peridigm]

Pochettino is a very good manager. The Tifo video of him and comparing his end with Klopps end at Dortmund is fascinating to watch. People really need to watch it, to understand how things fell off at Spurs.

Ole deserves his chance but the problem is, he will be scrutinised even more with Poch available. I just want my club to be winning again, so with Ole or Poch, I don't care. But if Ole doesn't get us top 4 at the end of the season and there's no real sign of progress, he needs to go. But in the meantime, incompetent Ed needs to have sounded out Poch and tapped up Marco Rose. So if Ole needs replacing, it would be one of these two, hopefully Rose.

According to the internet, Woodward tapped up Poch last year but snubbed him and here we are with Ole. I want Ole to succeed too and think we'd be foolish to sack him at this time unless structural changes are made as well.
My guess is we'll keep Ole until the end of the season or we get close to relegation, whichever comes first. Poch will go to PSG or RM, and we'll either stick with Ole or hire whoever wants the job.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

According to the internet, Woodward tapped up Poch last year but snubbed him and here we are with Ole. I want Ole to succeed too and think we'd be foolish to sack him at this time unless structural changes are made as well.
My guess is we'll keep Ole until the end of the season or we get close to relegation, whichever comes first. Poch will go to PSG or RM, and we'll either stick with Ole or hire whoever wants the job.

The internet eh? That source of all truth.

Fact is, we never approached Poch as we were on that great run which ended in the PSG win.By that time Poch signed a contract extension,the board went with Ole as permanent which in turn culminated in the cluster feck of a season's end

 

[Paxi]

But that's the problem, you're talking about a manager being in a 'different stratosphere' of ability yet you've got barely any real comparison.

Points wise Solskjaer has us 4th over his time in charge which is seen as some kind of miracle with Poch at Spurs.

There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.

You don't know that he wasn't offered a post, you're basing that on pure conjecture. Fact is Cardiff was a mess. He tried to play football there when they were crying out for a Warnock or Dyche. We can use that experience to knock him forever it seems.

 

[peridigm]

The internet eh? That source of all truth.

Fact is, we never approached Poch as we were on that great run which ended in the PSG win.By that time Poch signed a contract extension,the board went with Ole as permanent which in turn culminated in the cluster feck of a season's end

That was the year before.

Anyway, we have no way of knowing whether Woodward did or didn't talk with Poch's agents.

 

[crossy1686]

So winning a league title with Celtic is a bigger achievement than consistently finishing top 4,in the most competitive league in the world,competing against teams that are outspending you season after season??Wow....As for his struggles this season,Jurgen Klopp finished 13th in his final season at Dortmund.Unfortunately Liverpool didn’t come to the conclusion that he’s rubbish because he finished 13th....

No. Consistently winning the league season on season with that expectation to do so and every team playing you is a cup final means you have more experience at what it takes to win than someone who gets a medal for finishing in the top 4.

 

[reddevil80]

If we had a straight up choice between Pochettino and Rodgers who would people choose ?

For me, I am just on the cusp of saying stick with OGS, but if I HAD to, Rodgers all day every day. He is a good manager, with a good tactical sense and he always seems to get the fans on his side too.

 

[Paxi]

You don't know that he wasn't offered a post, you're basing that on pure conjecture. Fact is Cardiff was a mess. He tried to play football there when they were crying out for a Warnock or Dyche. We can use that experience to knock him forever it seems.

He was given free reigns at Cardiff. He signed a bunch a shite players, had them playing shit football with shit tactics that subsequently got them relegated. Instead of sacking him like any other relegated club would have, they let him have a go in the championship, which was a total flecking disaster. It might be conjecture but I'd wager it's very close to the truth.

 

[Fletchageddon]

No Poch got sacked and rightly so. The thing is Poch had 6 successful years in England. How many has Ole got. Id struggling to call Ole's tenures in England as underwhelming - that's being polite, in fact.

You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.

This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.

No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.

 

[Leftback99]

There is no comparison to behave. One is one of the best managers in the country the other is not. If Ole was so good, wouldn't at least a Championship club picked him up after Cardiff or even a league one Club? Instead he went back to obscurity, whereas Poch managed a top club for 5 seasons and basically made them into a solid top 4 side. Night and day difference.

He made a very poor decision to go to Cardiff and that has tarnished him. Clubs will obviously always go for the 'proven' record. If his first job in the PL was at an up and coming Southampton side like Poch his career might have taken a completely different path, equally if Poch had started at a terrible Cardiff side we might never have heard of him again.

Over the last year with both at similar level clubs (although Spurs nearly everyone would agree have a better squad), same level of competition, Solskjaer has outperformed Poch so to say he's in 'a different stratosphere' doesn't add up.

 

[Paxi]

You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.

This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.

No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.

One the cusp of what exactly? 5 wins out of 6 mostly against minnows?

It doesn't take a year to sort a team out. It's arguable that were worse off than we were.

 

[Member 58925]

But that's the problem, you're talking about a manager being in a 'different stratosphere' of ability yet you've got barely any real comparison.

Points wise Solskjaer has us 4th over his time in charge which is seen as some kind of miracle with Poch at Spurs.

Shall we make a side by side comparison between the two clubs in regards to expectation and status, as well as resources? By the time he was let go, it was expected that Spurs at the very least finish top 4 on a yearly basis, and at the very least qualify from the CL group stage. Now look back at the expectations at that club when he took over, and there's your miracle.

 

[Paxi]

He made a very poor decision to go to Cardiff and that has tarnished him. Clubs will obviously always go for the 'proven' record. If his first job in the PL was at an up and coming Southampton side like Poch his career might have taken a completely different path, equally if Poch had started at a terrible Cardiff side we might never have heard of him again.

Over the last year with both at similar level clubs (although Spurs nearly everyone would agree have a better squad), same level of competition, Solskjaer has outperformed Poch so to say he's in 'a different stratosphere' doesn't add up.

Over the last year Ole out performed Poch? Did Ole reach any of the cup finals let alone a CL final or am I missing something?

 

[Leftback99]

Over the last year Ole out performed Poch? Did Ole reach any of the cup finals let alone a CL final or am I missing something?

No you're not missing anything you're just ignoring the PL (10 point difference) and trying to be clever with the CL results (2 lucky results vs Ole's 1 against PSG). Let's forget the waste of time final.

 

[Paxi]

No you're not missing anything you're just ignoring the PL (10 point difference) and trying to be clever with the CL results (2 lucky results vs Ole's 1 against PSG). Let's forget the waste of time final.

Yeah and you're just ignoring 5 previous season Poch had.

 

[Leftback99]

Yeah and you're just ignoring 5 previous season Poch had.

No i'm comparing the two over the same period as per the post you replied to .

You forgot to add only 4th round of FA cup, 3rd round league cup exit to the mighty Colchester and a defeat to Solskjaer himself at home (no real surprise with Poch's top 6 record). This is a manager in 'another stratosphere' .

 

[AneRu]

You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.

This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.

No matter who takes over will need 2 to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.

I don't agree with this unless you mean it will take two years to challenge for the title. To get this team to finish 3rd or 4th it shouldn't take that long even with Ole. After this summer's business we are now in a position whereby just two inspired signings plus a veteran back up striker would see us becoming the best of the rest after City and Pool.

I think we are deceived by the fall out from Jose's meltdown into thinking that we have a very poor squad. What we have right now is an unbalanced squad due to losing Herrera, Lukaku and effectively Mata and Matic. Losing Herrera made us feel Matic's decline more so if we sign a DM and another creative midfielder or forward (Maddison if we lose Pogba or Sancho if we keep Pogba) then Dzeko/Mandzukic we will have a very competitive squad. It doesn't take three years to construct, its bemusing to think why the club didn't sign another player in the summer.

 

[Suv666]

Poch is a great manager. Jose, Conte, Allegri, Ancelloti, Klopp most top managers have been sacked in their careers. Either you move around every couple of years like Pep or you are sacked. Continued success at a single club is very hard to sustain. Poch made Southampton a great side, Spurs were proper shite before Poch came in. Not hiring him just because there's a miniscule chance Ole might be a top manager is incredibly naive. PL proven, experience in Europe and can coach young talent, where the feck are you going to find a manger like that? If we dont sign him, I'll be fecking pissed.

 

[Suv666]

You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.

This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.

No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.

What are you on about? We have been awful tactically, the squad is shite granted but we should be beating the likes of Newcastle. We are 9 points off top 4 ffs. Two good games and we are on the cusp
Its this sort of short sighted and reactionary BS what landed Ole the job. If the club had waited till the end of the season I'm not so sure he would have got the job.

 

[el3mel]

You need to let him get through his first year at United to find out FFS.

This team and Ole are on the cusp. Stop being a kid and thinking Poch or any manager would be instant success. The club needed rebuilding after years and years (including Fergie) of under/bad investment.

No matter who takes over will need 2 years to turn the team around. Let’s give a club legend a chance. He’s bought well and the team is starting to come together.

Ole is one month away from completing a full year managing United.

Why should he be the one to do the rebuild ? Why shouldn't it be someone else ?

 

[cjj]

Spurs were on the road to ruin when Poch went there. They were not up and coming at all. Far from it. The year before, they had sold Bale for record money and blown it all on duds. They had big earners willing to sit out and collect their paychecks, Adebayor ring any bells? They were full of flops who came on big money. Paulinho, Soldado, Lamela.

He got rid of all the big earners & players who didn't want to fight, brought in potential on a shoestring budget and got to work coaching them day in, day out to fulfill their potential.

Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.

In his first season, he actually ended up with 5 points less than the car-crash season with AVB and Sherwood where we got beaten comprehensively (5 or 6 goals) by most of the top 4 sides.

I get that Man United fans are suddenly going to gloss over stuff if they want to convince everyone that it's a good idea to go for him, but don't try and rewrite history.

 

[ash_86]

What are you on about? We have been awful tactically, the squad is shite granted but we should be beating the likes of Newcastle. We are 9 points off top 4 ffs. Two good games and we are on the cusp
Its this sort of short sighted and reactionary BS what landed Ole the job. If the club had waited till the end of the season I'm not so sure he would have got the job.

Tactical battles usually takes place when we face other top teams with top managers. Our results against big teams is testament that the tactics is spot on. We're anything but technically awful. We just lack quality to open up lower teams which has nothing to do with tactics.

 

[Majima]

Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.

In his first season, he actually ended up with 5 points less than the car-crash season with AVB and Sherwood where we got beaten comprehensively (5 or 6 goals) by most of the top 4 sides.

I get that Man United fans are suddenly going to gloss over stuff if they want to convince everyone that it's a good idea to go for him, but don't try and rewrite history.

I wasn't arguing that he got rid of the squad completely. Lamela & Kane might have been there to begin with, but they weren't main players. The person i was responding to said ''He took an up and coming squad and cemented them in the top 4 at the expense of us and/or Arsenal and Liverpool, but that was about as much about us being shite as them being brilliant.''

At the time when Pochettino first came in, did you think the squad & first team he inherited was up and coming and ready to achieve what they did? Is that statement not downplaying Pochettino's achievements at your club? That was the point i was making.

 

[Greck]

Want to believe but Castles has no credibility since Jose left. He's about as credible as any tinfoil wearing conspiracist to me.

 

[Halftrack]

Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.

In his first season, he actually ended up with 5 points less than the car-crash season with AVB and Sherwood where we got beaten comprehensively (5 or 6 goals) by most of the top 4 sides.

I get that Man United fans are suddenly going to gloss over stuff if they want to convince everyone that it's a good idea to go for him, but don't try and rewrite history.

You'll see that a lot on here. You lot were mid-table nobodies until Poch showed up and lifted you out of that existence, turning you into top four contenders. If you point out that it was actually Redknapp who did that, 5th/6th place quickly becomes mid-table, while his two top 4 finishes are conveniently ignored.

Poch is a good manager, and if Ole fails here, he'd be my first choice, but some have a tendency to credit him with a lot of things he didn't do, while absolving him of any blame for things that went wrong (these same people will then turn around and blame Ole for anything that goes wrong at United because "the buck stops with the manager!")

 

[croadyman]

One the cusp of what exactly? 5 wins out of 6 mostly against minnows?

It doesn't take a year to sort a team out. It's arguable that were worse off than we were.

Yeah and none of those victories have shown an ability to break down a packed defence, we also haven't proved we can take points from a losing position either.

 

[croadyman]

Ole is one month away from completing a full year managing United.

Why should he be the one to do the rebuild ? Why shouldn't it be someone else ?

Because our board are mesmerised by his Utd legend status and cannot see past someone with a connection to the club.

 

[Sky1981]

The caf is tiring lately.

You really cant appreciate another manager without having to fight tooth over nails over it.

Saying basic things like "i think poch is a good manager" would always followed by pages and pages of argument

 

[Icemav]

The caf is tiring lately.

You really cant appreciate another manager without having to fight tooth over nails over it.

Saying basic things like "i think poch is a good manager" would always followed by pages and pages of argument

He is a good Manager. Problem is many fans don't think he is either a) a great manager, and/or b) the right fit for United. And there there are many who do think he is both those things.

 

[roonster09]

Just to clarify, some of his more favoured squad members are (were) Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen and Kane - all of which were first team players when he arrived.

In his first season, he actually ended up with 5 points less than the car-crash season with AVB and Sherwood where we got beaten comprehensively (5 or 6 goals) by most of the top 4 sides.

I get that Man United fans are suddenly going to gloss over stuff if they want to convince everyone that it's a good idea to go for him, but don't try and rewrite history.

And looked like bunch of average players, with players like Rose loaned out to Sunderland and players like Kane who had failed loans at multiple lower league clubs.

Regarding the second bold part, Spurs fans, especially you is doing exactly the same thing, completely ignoring all the good work he did and then trying to rewrite history.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

And looked like bunch of average players, with players like Rose loaned out to Sunderland and players like Kane who had failed loans at multiple lower league clubs.

Regarding the second bold part, Spurs fans, especially you is doing exactly the same thing, completely ignoring all the good work he did and then trying to rewrite history.

It's typical when a manager leaves who has actually brought progress to an underachieving side though. The revisionists come out in force.
The same thing happened to a lesser extent when Ranieri got fired at Leicester.

Poch did brilliantly to get a team of entitled footballers to start believing in themselves but when he's not backed in the transfer market;he's suddenly average

 

[roonster09]

It's typical when a manager leaves who has actually brought progress to an underachieving side though. The revisionists come out in force.
The same thing happened to a lesser extent when Ranieri got fired at Leicester.

Poch did brilliantly to get a team of entitled footballers to start believing in themselves but when he's not backed in the transfer market;he's suddenly average

Exactly. The fact that people expect Spurs to win trophies after the low investment shows how good his work was.

 

[Sky1981]

He is a good Manager. Problem is many fans don't think he is either a) a great manager, and/or b) the right fit for United. And there there are many who do think he is both those things.

I can deal with those 2. It's the other 2 extremes that's tiring. The one where he's actually shit and it's all down to levy or the one where he's greater than pep

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Exactly. The fact that people expect Spurs to win trophies after the low investment shows how good his work was.

Indeed, I'm not suggesting he's the messiah that some proclaim, nor is he just a naughty boy!

I think he could be a great fit here but he needs a break to recharge his batteries. It didn't do Klopp and Pep any harm, let's be honest.
A hasty sacking of Ole and an even hastier appointment when Poch is at a bit of a low right now would be disastrous. A fresh and enthusiastic Poch as he was at the beginning would be great. But he needs a break.

The one thing that concerns me about Jose is the renewed enthusiasm he's showing. It could be a false dawn, or it could be he's coming back a changed coach having learned from the mistakes at Utd...who knows. The point is he looks refreshed and happy. The same will apply to Poch. Look at it in summer