UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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It's one thing Riley attacking Corbyn and Labour for anti-semitism, especially given a Labour councillor has previously been suspended for sharing an anti-semetic article about her and she has recieved piles of pretty nasty abuse from Labour supporters in the past. I believe she had also taken a libel case against a different Labour official too? So hardly a surprising position for her to still hold.

There are about a billion less stupid and obsessive ways to make that point than photoshopping a racist accusation over a picture of someone arguing against racism though.
 
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Mogget said:
Her Twitter account is something else. She genuinely comes across unhinged
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Surely Corbyn could take legal action against some of things she's accusing him of?
 
DavelinaJolie said:


Trumpification of British politics complete.
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From a political perspective Gove absolutely nailed that. Interviewer really pushing him, Gove neutralised all the attack lines and got his points across. He's definitely the best performer in the Tory party.
 
Fiskey said:
From a political perspective Gove absolutely nailed that. Interviewer really pushing him, Gove neutralised all the attack lines and got his points across. He's definitely the best performer in the Tory party.
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He answered none of the questions and squirmed like a weasel.

You're right. He's right on message.
 
Abizzz said:
He answered none of the questions and squirmed like a weasel.

You're right. He's right on message.
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He didn't answer any of the questions, but he's right in that the interviewer was asking them in a polemical way and by pointing that out helped to undermine the interviewers credibility. It didn't come across to me like he was squirming, he actually seemed to be quite enjoying himself.

A lot of politics is, for better or worse, a game of rhetoric. I don't think interviewers should bother with this type of questioning to Gove as he handles it really well. He's got enough in his background to question him on, just ask neutrally "how do you think Mr. Johnson is doing as Prime Minister?" and follow that track.
 
Labour's manifesto today. I'm very interested to see what they say about homelessness. In 2017 I genuinely think they forgot about homelessness for the manifesto and just made something up last minute to stick in there - it was really poor. But perhaps understandable with it being a snap election. Having had a bit more time I'm keen to know what direction they'll take.

I'm also hoping there'll be something about privacy in there. I think this is a hugely underrated topic among the left, and not just from a personal privacy perspective. Data is becoming as important as capital for businesses in the modern era, and I don't think Labour has had much to say on it so far. The power and influence of Google, Facebook et al flows from data, not capital. Granted its not likely to become a hot topic in the midst of a general election, but I'd be interested to see if there are any hints of Labour's thinking.
 
Fiskey said:
He didn't answer any of the questions, but he's right in that the interviewer was asking them in a polemical way and by pointing that out helped to undermine the interviewers credibility. It didn't come across to me like he was squirming, he actually seemed to be quite enjoying himself.

A lot of politics is, for better or worse, a game of rhetoric. I don't think interviewers should bother with this type of questioning to Gove as he handles it really well. He's got enough in his background to question him on, just ask neutrally "how do you think Mr. Johnson is doing as Prime Minister?" and follow that track.
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Sorry that's not how I see it all. The Tories are facing serious questions about their integrity, and interviews like this just further those questions. This isn't usual politics. Not even Viktor Orban or Salvini impersonates factcheckers. This is Putin level stuff and the fact tories are trying to paint Putin level stuff as normal politics is telling.
 
Abizzz said:
Sorry that's not how I see it all. The Tories are facing serious questions about their integrity, and interviews like this just further those questions. This isn't usual politics. Not even Viktor Orban or Salvini impersonates factcheckers. This is Putin level stuff and the fact tories are trying to paint Putin level stuff as normal politics is telling.
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I don't think the fact some idiot in the social media team felt like changing a twitter handle is as big a deal as you are suggesting. Its rightly been called out as being wrong, but it would be impossible for the conservatives to back down on it as it would play badly and make the story bigger. The Tory leaders are taking the line they need to take, and I'm sure it won't happen again (Twitter won't let it happen again anyhow).
 
Fiskey said:
I don't think the fact some idiot in the social media team felt like changing a twitter handle is as big a deal as you are suggesting. Its rightly been called out as being wrong, but it would be impossible for the conservatives to back down on it as it would play badly and make the story bigger. The Tory leaders are taking the line they need to take, and I'm sure it won't happen again (Twitter won't let it happen again anyhow).
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They had 12 million views in a nation of 63 million. This isn't small stuff and I'd like to see the staffer who does this sort of stuff on his own :wenger:. No this was planned and calculated and it fits right into the picture of all their other activities.

To be honest I find it hard to understand how anyone could not find it anything other than disgusting, and I've drawn my conclusions about those that don't.
 
Fiskey said:
I don't think the fact some idiot in the social media team felt like changing a twitter handle is as big a deal as you are suggesting. Its rightly been called out as being wrong, but it would be impossible for the conservatives to back down on it as it would play badly and make the story bigger. The Tory leaders are taking the line they need to take, and I'm sure it won't happen again (Twitter won't let it happen again anyhow).
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Was reading an article on the FT about their social media guys, two guys from NZ who are really close to Levido. They’ve drawn loads of praise internally for their abrasive style, this definitely was not a case of one guy going rogue
 
T00lsh3d said:
Was reading an article on the FT about their social media guys, two guys from NZ who are really close to Levido. They’ve drawn loads of praise internally for their abrasive style, this definitely was not a case of one guy going rogue
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I don't know, it just looked quite amateur, and I can't imagine it would have been signed off if the idea had gone further up the food chain. How was it every going to benefit the conservative party?

I actually think from what you say makes it more likely it was rogue. If the guys have been getting praise for being abrasive they might have thought let's push it further and went too far.

Edit: This is what James Cleverly said: "Asked if he knew about the change, Mr Cleverly said: "The digital team have got a remit, I set that remit, they work within the remit and I'm absolutely comfortable with them calling out when the Labour Party puts what they know to be complete fabrications in the public domain - and we will call that out every time they do it."
 
Abizzz said:
They had 12 million views in a nation of 63 million. This isn't small stuff and I'd like to see the staffer who does this sort of stuff on his own :wenger:. No this was planned and calculated and it fits right into the picture of all their other activities.

To be honest I find it hard to understand how anyone could not find it anything other than disgusting, and I've drawn my conclusions about those that don't.
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Tbf the majority of those views would've been after they'd been called out for it. I can't see how it's done anything but backfire on them because their core voter base won't be on twitter anyway and this stunt certainly won't have swayed anyone sitting on the fence to their side.

But absolutely it's disgraceful. Doubly so as whilst it was happening Johnson was shaking hands with Corbyn and promising to clean up the state of British politics.
 
Fiskey said:
I don't know, it just looked quite amateur, and I can't imagine it would have been signed off if the idea had gone further up the food chain. How was it every going to benefit the conservative party?

I actually think from what you say makes it more likely it was rogue. If the guys have been getting praise for being abrasive they might have thought let's push it further and went too far.
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If it was rogue don't you think Pritti Patel, Michael Gove, James Cleverly and the rest of them would condemn it? Wouldn't they be fired? In a public way to save face for the tories? No, they are fine with it...
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Tbf the majority of those views would've been after they'd been called out for it. I can't see how it's done anything but backfire on them because their core voter base won't be on twitter anyway and this stunt certainly won't have swayed anyone sitting on the fence to their side.

But absolutely it's disgraceful. Doubly so as whilst it was happening Johnson was shaking hands with Corbyn and promising to clean up the state of British politics.
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There is no way of knowing that.
 
Abizzz said:
If it was rogue don't you think Pritti Patel, Michael Gove, James Cleverly and the rest of them would condemn it? Wouldn't they be fired? In a public way to save face for the tories? No, they are fine with it...
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They can't admit it was wrong or else it would be a bigger story. I imagine all those guys would be furious behind the scenes, this isn't what they want to be fielding questions about as its a lose lose scenario.
 
Raulduke said:
BBC really don't do themselves any favors sometimes. Deleting embarrassing Tory gaff after it's gone viral.
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It's gone now but I assume this was Priti Patel saying that you can't blame the goverment for poverty? Interesting angle. I've only read the banner headline but interested to hear how she qualified that statement...
 
Fiskey said:
I don't know, it just looked quite amateur, and I can't imagine it would have been signed off if the idea had gone further up the food chain. How was it every going to benefit the conservative party?

I actually think from what you say makes it more likely it was rogue. If the guys have been getting praise for being abrasive they might have thought let's push it further and went too far.

Edit: This is what James Cleverly said: "Asked if he knew about the change, Mr Cleverly said: "The digital team have got a remit, I set that remit, they work within the remit and I'm absolutely comfortable with them calling out when the Labour Party puts what they know to be complete fabrications in the public domain - and we will call that out every time they do it."
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FT article:
Despite the backlash over factcheckUK, the Tory campaign is happy with the New Zealanders and said the pair had in effect become the party’s in-house advertising agency. “These guys are the best digital people I’ve ever worked with,” said one senior Conservative. “They are full of ideas, always up for trying new things and working collaboratively. They enjoy stimulating debate and knockabout politics.”

While opposition politicians continue to call on the party to apologise for both the factcheckUK rebranding and Sir Keir’s doctored video, the outrage is likely to continue, with further controversial tactics lined up for the rest of the election campaign. “Just watch this space,” said one senior Tory.
 
Fiskey said:
They can't admit it was wrong or else it would be a bigger story. I imagine all those guys would be furious behind the scenes, this isn't what they want to be fielding questions about as its a lose lose scenario.
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How does this matter? At what point do Tories find the least bit of dignity inside of them? In todays age this goes around the globe. This is the worst image campaign for Britain PLC since hooliganism. And it's the governing party ffs.
CassiusClaymore said:
Very likely though. It was called out incredibly quickly and parodied by a fair few celebs (Ralph Little, Armando Ianucci, Charlie Brooker...) whilst the debate was still on.
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That is what I would be saying if I were a Tory spin doctor. There is no way of verifying it either way.
 
Abizzz said:
How does this matter? At what point do Tories find the least bit of dignity inside of them? In todays age this goes around the globe. This is the worst image campaign for Britain PLC since hooliganism. And it's the governing party ffs.

That is what I would be saying if I were a Tory spin doctor. There is no way of verifying it either way.
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Agreed, I would love it if a Tory leader could come out and say that was very wrong, sorry guys, won't happen again. Unfortunately its just not going to happen in the middle of a general election.
 
You don't have an action taken like that based on some low level staff. It's coordinated at head office, obviously Boris isn't in the loop but the people running their campaign certainly are.

Pathetic to see any defence of it to be honest but certain Torys are becoming Trumpers.
 
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Cant wait to hear what the Lib Dem supporters on here have to say about this.
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Yeah, they're losing any pretence that they're not moving right of centre pretty much permanently if they are going to do that. It's a shame from my point of view, I think we're missing a proper central party which puts human rights and the environment top of the agenda whilst being moderately decent with the economy. Surely that's why they're there in the first place....

Still, I have no choice but to vote for them in the GE, it's either them or the Tories in my constituency (which may not make much difference anyway if they get together for a majority).
 
Balljy said:
Yeah, they're losing any pretence that they're not moving right of centre pretty much permanently if they are going to do that. It's a shame from my point of view, I think we're missing a proper central party which puts human rights and the environment top of the agenda whilst being moderately decent with the economy. Surely that's why they're there in the first place....

Still, I have no choice but to vote for them in the GE, it's either them or the Tories in my constituency (which may not make much difference anyway if they get together for a majority).
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I'm in the same boat, as much as i criticise the Lib dems and defend Labour I think I'll need to lend my vote to them this time.

I don't think either will beat Mark Francois unfortunately. Somehow there's people who think it's a good idea to vote for him.
 
Raulduke said:


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I don't see anything about a 3-day weekend for home-made jam, the Tories said to expect jam :mad:

Nah in all honesty there are some good stuff here from the very brief glance I gave it. UBI pilot, rent increases in line with inflation, expand & upgrade hostels for the homeless, banning zero-hour contracts

Will read in detail when I have more time.
 
Balljy said:
Yeah, they're losing any pretence that they're not moving right of centre pretty much permanently if they are going to do that. It's a shame from my point of view, I think we're missing a proper central party which puts human rights and the environment top of the agenda whilst being moderately decent with the economy. Surely that's why they're there in the first place....

Still, I have no choice but to vote for them in the GE, it's either them or the Tories in my constituency (which may not make much difference anyway if they get together for a majority).
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Fair enough. Voting tactically is the pragmatic thing to do.

Please just double check you're not using Lib Dem bar charts as your guide on how to tactically vote!
 
Maternity leave up to 12 months, paternity leave up to 4 weeks, 30 hours free childcare, cancelling retirement age increases. That's the sort of stuff that regularly comes up in conversations among my peer group, likely to be very popular.
 
Raulduke said:
Maternity leave up to 12 months, paternity leave up to 4 weeks, 30 hours free childcare, cancelling retirement age increases. That's the sort of stuff that regularly comes up in conversations among my peer group, likely to be very popular.
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But but but corbyn
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Calling it a 'liberation struggle' is hyperbolic too, it's a union they joined voluntarily and voted to stay in democratically in 2014. I don't know if you're implying that Corbyn will somehow clandestinely help to 'liberate' Scotland by using the ideas in your video to strategically plan for it behind the scenes with the SNP? I don't think that would make much sense for Corbyn because wouldn't Sexit make right wing governments in the UK much more likely than not going forward?
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No I'm saying because Scottish Independence isn't a liberation struggle and is in fact a voluntarily union, it's one of the reason why Scottish Independence won't happen(I think the SNP know this as well, hence why I think they would be happy working with Labour government). Maybe we've got our wires crossed, I'm not for Scottish Independence.
 
Just had a quick look through the Labour Manifesto, and it would seem really bad for me as a small business owner. Say I want take out £50,000 net/year* and keep £80,000 in my business for the next year so that I can hire two members of staff every year. At the moment to take out roughly £50,000 net I would take £12,500 in salary (on which I pay £464.16 personal NI and £447.53) and £42,000 dividends (on which I pay £3,000 in personal tax and £7,980 on corporation tax. If I wanted to keep £80,000 for next year to hire extra staff I would need to make a further £98,765 in profit, because of the corporation tax at 19%. When you include business costs which (I'm estimating here at £5,000) my company basically needs to be making roughly £161,000/year to keep me happy and enable me to grow.

If that goes to 28%, I will be paying £11,760 rather than £7,980 on the for the personal component and £31,111 rather than £18,765 on the money I'm putting aside for investment. So my company (just me at the moment) will need to generate £178,000 to stand still, an extra £17,000.

I don't consider myself particularly wealthy or successful. People always say this country needs more small business, and I don't think that this manifesto would help at all. These are slightly back of the fag packet calculations, but is correct from my current understanding.

*(I know a fair amount of money, but it is more difficult to get a mortgage when you are self employed, so I need to save for a deposit and also have a greater rainy day fund than most people in case things go tits up.)
 
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