UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fosu-Mens said:
As a non-British person, can someone please explain how the Tories are doing so well?
Click to expand...

Their core voting base largely wants to see Brexit and they've bought into Boris as someone who can deliver it for them. While they've been in power for close to a decade the change in leadership from pro-EU to pro-Brexit leaders has also perhaps helped revive them: we've got a weird situation where an incumbent government is trying to compete with the opposition to take up the mantle as the party for change even though they've had a decade to change things.

There's also just the fact that Corbyn is really unpopular: in personal approval ratings Boris doesn't even do that well, he just scores better than Corbyn.
 
Cheesy said:
I think this is partially true but also a simplistic analysis in certain respects - the Tories were just completely done by 1997 and were incredibly scandal-ridden; I reckon any half-decent Labour leader would have won, even if Blair did have his own appeal to swathes of the population.

Corbyn and McDonnell themselves have incredibly problematic pasts in certain respects and it's clear Corbyn just isn't liked by a lot of the country, but at the same time a lot of the left-wing policies they propose are broadly popular and could be vote winners. It'd be a mistake for Labour not to try and harness that moving forward, especially because genuine economic change is needed to help those who have fecked over in the past decade or so by austerity.
Click to expand...

It’s definitely simplistic, but then I think they need something seismic like than changed to clause 4. At the moment, the Labour Party manifesto has echoes of 1983.
 
Cheesy said:
Traditionally a lot of Tory voters would have argued that they were being pragmatic and voting for a party who were fiscally responsible, even if rather cnutish in many respects. They'd argue that while left-wing Labour governments may be well-intentioned they aren't necessarily good at running the economy and end up indirectly harming lots of people anyway, even if they'd like to help them.

I'd say that's a fairly simplistic analysis anyway, and it's not necessarily one I'd have agreed in, but it was one you could perhaps at least understand to a certain extent.

But I'd say Brexit's flipped all of that. It should reveal to anyone who votes Tory that the party aren't primarily concerned at all with economic security and responsibility - when they find an ideological policy they want to pursue they'll abandon their supposed fiscal realism completely. Similarly, it's brought to the fore the narrow-minded and insular anti-immigration rhetoric which exists among many on the right. Even if you think Corbyn would be disastrous for the country, it's difficult to vote Tory with a straight face and claim you're voting for the sensible, realistic and moderate party who are reluctant and wary to pursue change.
Click to expand...
It's not just the right though. Places like Grimsby and Sunderland turning blue show it's a much broader working class trait.
 
sun_tzu said:
Whilst your in full fact check mode... Wanna tell me if this Guido exclusive is genuine



Can you fact check me what parts of this are not what the shadow health secretary thinks?



Imagine if twat Hancock had said this stuff... But even he's not enough of a twat to get caught
Click to expand...


According to Ashworth it's part of a longer conversation where they were both being heavily critical of their own parties for banter. Guido have then edited it down to only the parts with Ashworth.

Considering I've proven them to be complete and utter liars today, faking images to make completely artificial articles, excuse me while I take their framing of events with a truck load of salt.

Honestly, it's really, really, really embarrassing that you get your information from that website. It looks like it's run by the Sunday Sport and is proven to be a far right wing disinformation factory. Are you really that lacking in critical thinking that you think it's a legitimate news source or is it just that you're happy to indulge it because it says all the things your not at all right wing brain loves to hear?
 
Fosu-Mens said:
As a non-British person, can someone please explain how the Tories are doing so well?
Click to expand...
Boris Johnson is a popular person, Tories now have somebody who wants to leave the EU, Labour were in power in 2008 when we had the credit crunch, also no Labour voters I know like Corbyn
 
altodevil said:
Stupidity and media manipulation
Click to expand...

You are right, most of the electorate are evil or uneducated, and Rupert Murdock is pulling all of the strings - according to supporters like you.

this election is more about the least worst option, and the Labour Party have presented such a poor and incoherent offer that the Tories are the better option. That’s the reality.
 
Honest John said:
Whereas I appreciate the unions place in history I am not sure that they need to regain the degree of power they wielded back then. Most things they campaigned for are now enshrined in legislation and I do not subscribe to the notion that the Tories will scrap the lot once we are out of the EU. That would be a green light for trouble.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you trust them on that level. I agree it would cause trouble, I don't believe that would stop them given the massive greenlight of half the country voting for them. You are literally saying 'yes we agree, go ahead, harder Boris'.

Honest John said:
Big business may be an anathema to some but it does create jobs and wealth. Labeling the rich as pariahs makes no sense to me because as John Cauldwell said to John McDonnell, you are having a go at the very people you want to stay in the UK, and pay extra tax to pay for your policies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...oes-head-to-head-with-labour-s-john-mcdonnell

If you treat the rich like some kind of pinata they will leave and then where do you get your funding from?
Click to expand...

Here speaketh the voice which panders to those with the most money. Better be nice to them, or they'll all leave. For they are the only ones who create jobs.:rolleyes:

We don't really tax wealth in this country. We tax gains. The problem is, once you reach a certain level you qualify for special treatment. This treatment allows more and more riches to be accumulated, normally off the back of hard working people. It allows off shore bank accounts. It buys the best tax avoidance plans. And, typically, it allows for the squeezing of the poorest for the gain of the few. All while often paying a lower percentage of tax than those on an average wage.

If you can't see that this system is broken, maybe you can at least see that with this system in place, there is no chance of improving inequality levels in this country?

Here's a link for you

It takes until the 4th of Jan for the average CEO of a FTSE 100 company to earn the equivalent pay of an AVERAGE worker on full time hours. These people aren't so special that the economy would grind to a halt without them. Do you honestly believe that they would all flee if they earned half as much? If they were to all up and leave there would be a temporary impact on the tax take for the UK. Not really massive though, as someone else would take their role and be paying more tax. As I pointed out above, we don't really tax wealth that much anyway.

It's really not a case of trying to make outcasts of the super rich. If working a full time job at minimum wage were enough to provide a good lifestyle, then this argument would be far less pressing. When you have the levels of in work poverty that we see now, it simply has to be tackled by real changes.
 
Cheesy said:
Their core voting base largely wants to see Brexit and they've bought into Boris as someone who can deliver it for them. While they've been in power for close to a decade the change in leadership from pro-EU to pro-Brexit leaders has also perhaps helped revive them: we've got a weird situation where an incumbent government is trying to compete with the opposition to take up the mantle as the party for change even though they've had a decade to change things.

There's also just the fact that Corbyn is really unpopular: in personal approval ratings Boris doesn't even do that well, he just scores better than Corbyn.
Click to expand...

So a presumed lesser of two evils situations where a decent portion votes for the Tories not because they necessarily agree with them, but because they dislike Corbyn + gang more?

My general opinion regarding politics that 80% of the people who vote make their decision based on who they dislike the least not who they like/agrees with the most based on media headlines. The rest votes based on tradition.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
You are right, most of the electorate are evil or uneducated, and Rupert Murdock is pulling all of the strings - according to supporters like you.

this election is more about the least worst option, and the Labour Party have presented such a poor and incoherent offer that the Tories are the better option. That’s the reality.
Click to expand...
It's fecking not the reality.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Boris Johnson is a popular person, Tories now have somebody who wants to leave the EU, Labour were in power in 2008 when we had the credit crunch, also no Labour voters I know like Corbyn
Click to expand...

How can Boris be a popular person? And how is Corbyn still in charge of the Labour party if he is one of the main reasons people are not voting for them? Is the average voter in the UK on par with the average American when it comes to the understanding of politics+++?
 
Pexbo said:
Honestly, it's really, really, really embarrassing that you get your information from that website. It looks like it's run by the Sunday Sport and is proven to be a far right wing disinformation factory. Are you really that lacking in critical thinking that you think it's a legitimate news source or is it just that you're happy to indulge it because it says all the things your not at all right wing brain loves to hear?
Click to expand...

Got to agree with this.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
How can Boris be a popular person? And how is Corbyn still in charge of the Labour party if he is one of the main reasons people are not voting for them? Is the average voter in the UK on par with the average American when it comes to the understanding of politics+++?
Click to expand...
The other half of the country asks itself that every day in disbelief.
 
on behalf of
Office PAAA
For immediate release: 10 December 2019

Boris Johnson lies. The Tories can’t be trusted.
Tomorrow the People's Assembly against Austerity will be sending a fleet of Anti Boris/Anti Tory Ad Vans across the UK.

“Boris Johnson can’t even be trusted to look at a picture of an ill child, much less trusted to care for the NHS” said John Rees from The People's Assembly
The vsns will carry an image of Boris Johnson along with the words:

I CAN'T BE TRUSTED - I CLOSE FIRE STATIONS - I PUT KIDS INTO POVERTY - I WILL SELL YOUR NHS - I LOVE TRUMP
DON'T VOTE CONSERVATIVE ON 12TH DECEMBER

The vans will hit the roads from 12 noon - 8pm
 
finneh said:
I wasn't saying that there should have been a £50b surplus 7 years in a row. I'm saying that provided spending to GDP was maintained from 2000 levels we could have achieved close to that level by the end of the period. So for example let's say that we maintained a spend of 34% to GDP throughout that period (as it was in 2000). Over the period 2000 - 2007 we'd have seen a total surplus of around £130b total with a surplus of over £40b in 2007. I don't think maintaining spend to GDP is at all radical or damaging to growth, given that this would mean spending increases of a still huge level of 5% per annum.
Click to expand...

Well, there's your problem, you don't even understand what a surplus is. A surplus is when when the Government takes money out of the economy. By definition, it reduces growth, its not a matter of opinion. No wonder you're chucking these absurd numbers around.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
ok my bad, it’s all a conspiracy.
Click to expand...
It is your bad, yes. I'm not sure, however, that you voting Tory because you've decided that their sterling track record and progressive policies (I see it is only Labour that need to modernise) means they're a better bet is a conspiracy. It's just a bad voting decision. That's the reality.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
How can Boris be a popular person? And how is Corbyn still in charge of the Labour party if he is one of the main reasons people are not voting for them? Is the average voter in the UK on par with the average American when it comes to the understanding of politics+++?
Click to expand...

Corbyn Labout got 12.8m votes in 2017, May Tories 13.6m. So some people like him.

Demographics have shifted further away from the Conservatives in the last 2 years and will continue to.

See comparisons with the 80s....

The UK has changed totally since then. Most obviously if you check house price to earnings ratio, the cost of uni education and the general opportunities for young wannabe capitalist Tory's. Which is why Labour won all age groups under 45 by some distance. If someone can find the demographic breakdown for 1980s UK elections, I would bet the Tories held a lot of the youth vote. Not anymore...

Corbyn is like a UK combination of Sanders and a bit of Trump as well, in terms of being hated by the "liberal establishment" anyway.

I don't think this election is a forgone conclusion, as polls would suggest, though very difficult to see Labour winning a majority. Possible shocks include a much bigger than expected Lib Dem surge in London and SE remain areas, the Brexit party vote and probably quite a few other things.

Will reserve judgement of it till hindsight available on Friday.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
To me, it smells fishy. Just like Clinton winning over Sanders fishy and Trump winning the election fishy.
Click to expand...
Both Johnson and Corbyn are highly divisive and seem to provoke strong sentiment in people either way.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
It is your bad, yes. I'm not sure, however, that you voting Tory because you've decided that their sterling track record and progressive policies (I see it is only Labour that need to modernise) means they're a better bet is a conspiracy. It's just a bad voting decision. That's the reality.
Click to expand...

At no point have I ever said the Tories don’t need to modernise. My hope is that they bring the party together and shift to the centre ground, which will be significantly easier with a majority.

just because I disagree with you, doesn’t make it a bad voting decision.
 
Mb194dc said:
The UK has changed totally since then. Most obviously if you check house price to earnings ratio, the cost of uni education and the general opportunities for young wannabe capitalist Tory's. Which is why Labour won all age groups under 45 by some distance. If someone can find the demographic breakdown for 1980s UK elections, I would bet the Tories held a lot of the youth vote. Not anymore...
Click to expand...

Thanks. This coincide with my superficial understanding of the "non-media" elements in this election.
 
Shamwow said:
He's a troll.
Click to expand...
Yeah I figured as much.
Am I correct in thinking he's supposed to be a Labour supporter who is just against momentum and Corbyn? But then seems to get his news from a right wing disinformation website? Or maybe I have him confused with someone else.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
You are right, most of the electorate are evil or uneducated, and Rupert Murdock is pulling all of the strings - according to supporters like you.

this election is more about the least worst option, and the Labour Party have presented such a poor and incoherent offer that the Tories are the better option. That’s the reality.
Click to expand...
Supporters like me? What am I meant to be a supporter of?

Most of the electorate are uneducated, yes. Evil? No. I didn't say that at all.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
At no point have I ever said the Tories don’t need to modernise. My hope is that they bring the party together and shift to the centre ground, which will be significantly easier with a majority.

just because I disagree with you, doesn’t make it a bad voting decision.
Click to expand...

By voting for them now, you are giving them the signal that the very right wing party they have become, is the way to go.

I voted green in 2015 because Labour weren't radical enough.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
At no point have I ever said the Tories don’t need to modernise. My hope is that they bring the party together and shift to the centre ground, which will be significantly easier with a majority.

just because I disagree with you, doesn’t make it a bad voting decision.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's annoying when someone says something is "reality" when it's an opinion.

You haven't said the Tories need don't need to modernise, no. You have said Labour do though and have cited that as one of the main reasons you'll vote Tory despite their cruel and dangerous social policies which you have stated you dislike.

It's your decision and it doesn't make you a bad person for making it but clearly I will see it as a bad voting decision for the reasons which you well understand and I don't expect you to care about or agree with.

I have no idea why you think a majority Tory government will move to the centre. It is, at least, just as likely that they will push through everything that they can whilst under the control of the current shower of Dickensian villains whilst unopposed. In time, perhaps, some aspects will soften but then we'll have let so much and moved so far right that these mild concessions will not compensate. It's already happened in the 80s. It's part of the reason Corbyn is seen as far left by many despite his policies not being remotely so based on the last hundred years of the UK nor against the rest of our continent. Take a lot and give a little back.

I hope, against all precedent and indications, that you are somehow miraculously correct. If you're not, I hope you reflect on what you helped enable.
 
sebsheep said:
Yeah I figured as much.
Am I correct in thinking he's supposed to be a Labour supporter who is just against momentum and Corbyn? But then seems to get his news from a right wing disinformation website? Or maybe I have him confused with someone else.
Click to expand...

That's the one.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
ok my bad, it’s all a conspiracy.
Click to expand...
Remember when all those people wearing tin foil hats ran about saying that the CIA were listening in to everyone's phone calls and reading their emails, and we all laughed and called them nutjobs. And then it turned out that they were. And then the media threw a dead cat on the table and suddenly the narrative got muddled up? Yeah, those were the good old days.
 


Labour are definitely winning the social media campaign.
 
I hope Labour wins so Rachel Riley spontaneously combusts, she’s gone full on weirdo on twitter
 
Status
Not open for further replies.