Yeah I agree.
Corbyn has one last shot in my opinion and that is the debate on Friday night. But again, I suspect the viewers will mainly comprise of politically interested people and not the working class undecided voters.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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Corbyn has one last shot in my opinion and that is the debate on Friday night. But again, I suspect the viewers will mainly comprise of politically interested people and not the working class undecided voters.
Because i'm the only one saying you have to be stupid to vote for the opposition?
Yeah whilst accusing him of being in his mid 20s etc.
I hold little hope the kind of people that need to watch it will spare time on their Friday night to do so. I will, for the reason you stated - I'm enthused. My friends and family, left and right will watch it for a similar reason.
I think the right thing to do would be for Corbyn to step aside in the event he fails to claim the largest party, as painful as that would be for someone that feels so many are conspiring against him. He is rarely judged fairly on merit, including both the things he does well and the things he gets wrong.
Not sure if I've said this before but my girlfriend registered to vote for the first time this election at the age of 28. Shes degree educated and a sensible person, although she would much rather watch I'm A Celeb than a political debate. I've got every confidence that without me and my Mum driving the message home about the importance that she, like all of her family, would have continued to watch this all pass them by and remain unregistered. I think there are a huge number of people like my girlfriend that aren't being tapped in to but it looks like social media is starting to do a bit of that heavy lifting, especially for Labour. I think this election has come a year or two too early and for that reason we will have to live with a set of shitehawks for a full term.
Half this thread is people calling Tory supporters thick, nasty, evil etc.
You're not really helping your case with that evil genius laugh.
I didn't vote Tory at the last two elections.
That's exactly what a Tory would say.
The difference is, unlike the Tories, Labour aren’t pretending that Brexit is the silver bullet to all the issues that currently plague the country, nor are they focusing exclusively on Brexit since there are other pressing issues that warrant attention. And regardless of whether you think they can do a better job than the Johnson with negotiating a better deal, they’re also offering something the Tories aren’t - an additional choice to remain.
You’re also making the sweeping conclusion that every ‘economic expert’ has derided their spending plans - they haven’t, plenty have voiced their support over it.
I think you’re drawing false equivalence between the respective strategies of both main parties. One is essentially campaigning on a single issue, with minimal, vague lip service to other pressing matters and occasionally relying on some creative accounting (50,000 ‘more’ nurses), whereas the other is offering a detailed policy roadmap. Also last I checked it wasn’t Corbyn or Labour running away from debates, interviews or hustings.
Agree with you, the reach and influence of these scummy "news" outfits are still underestimated.
However I think this particular piece of news / headline has been an own goal. If I was right-wing I'd suppress pretty much any association of Trump with UK politics for now. Even with a denial it plants the seed that he's involved, which I'd expect subconsciously influence voters in the direction of mistrusting the UK politicians he's associated with, no matter how engaged they are. Not everyone, but enough to swerve reporting it in this way.
Surely even Sun readers aren't thick enough to believe that headline.
This is businessman Donald Trump. 'America First' Donald Trump. "Everything is on the table" Donald Trump. "Leverage: Don't make deals without it" Donald Trump.
The same Donald Trump we'll be looking to for a trade deal with precisely no leverage after we throw ourselves into the abyss next year. Jesus Christ Powell, he's just gonna give us what we want is he at discount prices?
This is businessman Donald Trump. 'America First' Donald Trump. "Everything is on the table" Donald Trump. "Leverage: Don't make deals without it" Donald Trump.
The same Donald Trump we'll be looking to for a trade deal with precisely no leverage after we throw ourselves into the abyss next year. Jesus Christ Powell, he's just gonna give us what we want is he at discount prices?
One area that Corbyn has missed is trying to separate BrExit from electoral matters.
If I was him I’d have found a messaging structure that stated that Cameron had rightly chosen to make BrExit a non party matter, hence initiating the referendum. And that’s why he was doing the same by advocating a neutral position and making his campaign about historical and long term national issues. He should have explained that by conflating BrExit along with party ideology, BJ’s binary choice strategy was making it impossible for left, centrist or right voters to make choices consistent with their belief systems. That’s why Labour was a great choice for many as they could get their views on national governance and BrExit heard.
Corbyn manifesto allows for such, but voters are left having to work this message out for themselves. Especially the reminder on how Cameron started this process.
It’s a complex message to communicate but most decent ad agencies would have nailed it very quickly. As someone with a marketing and advertising background I’m appalled by Labours disparate and inconsistent communications during this election and super impressed by BJ’s consistent and disciplined execution. BJ is following the Trump play book (almost certainly lent to him by Bannon) which is based on the 1960s Chicago school of advertising and which remains the dominant philosophy in global advertising today. Conversely, Hilary made exactly the same mistakes that Corbyn is making now too.
If I was him I’d have found a messaging structure that stated that Cameron had rightly chosen to make BrExit a non party matter, hence initiating the referendum. And that’s why he was doing the same by advocating a neutral position and making his campaign about historical and long term national issues. He should have explained that by conflating BrExit along with party ideology, BJ’s binary choice strategy was making it impossible for left, centrist or right voters to make choices consistent with their belief systems. That’s why Labour was a great choice for many as they could get their views on national governance and BrExit heard.
Corbyn manifesto allows for such, but voters are left having to work this message out for themselves. Especially the reminder on how Cameron started this process.
It’s a complex message to communicate but most decent ad agencies would have nailed it very quickly. As someone with a marketing and advertising background I’m appalled by Labours disparate and inconsistent communications during this election and super impressed by BJ’s consistent and disciplined execution. BJ is following the Trump play book (almost certainly lent to him by Bannon) which is based on the 1960s Chicago school of advertising and which remains the dominant philosophy in global advertising today. Conversely, Hilary made exactly the same mistakes that Corbyn is making now too.
To put it simply no, I've had numerous discussions already with people that have stated, "But Trump has said he's not interested in the NHS"
Makes it so much easier to understand how we've got into this mess
Well that Channel 4 video on the other page is actually a focus group of how the Tories can win over the working class vote and it's surprisingly simple. Lambast Corbyn in any way possible and continually drum home the message that the Tories are the only ones who can deliver Brexit.
I don't think if Labour had played it like you said it would have made a shred of difference to that lot. They don't want their views on Brexit heard any more, they want the referendum result to be delivered.
he also said he didn't know Prince Andrew yesterday despite their being numerous photo's of them together. These people might as well be lobotomised. Pointless engaging that level of myopia.
That's the majority of the public I'd say, there is a reason the sun and other bullshit like that are the best selling papers in the UK
Jess Phillips has reached peak-Jess Phillips by speaking at an event honouring that Nazi Tory they're pretending was the first female MP.
A great demonstration of how to over use the word "everything" in one clear post.
As opposed to the Labour campaign to promise free everything because they know their target voters don't care/don't understand/dont know that it all has to be paid for somehow.
I wait to hear the qualifications you possess that allow you to see what nobody else can. Or are you just another 20 something who thinks they know everything?
I'm not entirely blaming them, obviously the media are a major beast, but I think they are doing a poor job of fighting it. Just like the last election.
They knew what was coming and still it happens with little fightback. It's exactly the same all over again, it's like nothing has been learned and that's frustrating.
I'm just going to roll my eyes and give up on here now. There's absolutely no point in questioning anything.
See that’s what I’m curious about, not the daft unicorn stuff, but if the serious questions on financing are ever asked on the doorstep and how the canvasser answers them
The online traffic stats are more telling these days and remember the DM was at least for a while the biggest news website in the year on certain metrics earlier this year.
Or, you know, Labour could actually build a team and agenda that might actually get the electorate on side. How about trying that, maybe?
Total traffic doesn’t exactly tell the full story.
I can tell you for certain the Suns website sees most of its traffic in the football/love-island/gossip sections (politics is ranked considerably lower), and much of it is redirected from third parties like Facebook and Twitter.
The Daily Mail on the other hand were doing some sneaky SEO fiddling to keep them near the top, once Google caught them out their numbers dramatically dropped.
Both sites also have low session retention rates - most users read 1-2 articles at best before navigating away.
So what do you want re: brexit?
The Labour policy is a confirmatory referendum on brexit.
Now that we know the only options are;
(1) Leave with no deal,
(2) Leave with a pretty bad deal or
(3) Remain.
Labour will re negotiate the best leave (with deal) that they can then put it to a vote. It seems to me the only way to bring people together over this issue.
The initial brexit vote was remain or leave. But people imagined leave to be whatever beautiful sugar coated unicorn they wanted. The Leave campaign actively encouraged this. Now the reality is as stated in my paragraph above. We have a decision to make.
Unless you think there would be a majority who want to leave with no deal? Which was totally ruled out during the 2016 Leave campaign and also by parliament.
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But Labour gifted the Tories that narrative the moment they put Corbyn into the leadership! Everyone who knew Corbyn's record, knew it was open to these kinds of attacks. Labour was warned by so many people including a ton on the Labour side! Labour activists didn't want to hear. This is on you too.
A Labour die hard would not simply push Corbyn as the lesser of two evils. It is an expression of the need for Corbyn sceptics to demonstrate pragmatism in our (flawed) FPTP system. If you don't like it you should campaign for proportional representation?
Re: online campaigning.
Actually the demographics of Labour voters are in proportion to the age groups which spend more time online. That looks reasonably good for Labour. It is the older generation who use more traditional media which are more likely to vote Conservative.
So the Labour supporters and activitists should have put their values aside and picked someone the Sun and Mail would approve of?
They gave Milliband and Brown a brutal time too in case you’ve forgotten.
What was it about Ed Millibands leadership that "gifted" the Tories very similar narratives?
Was it "red ED"?
Or the (slightly anti semitic) criticism that he couldn't eat a bacon sandwich properly? That photo was used in a mocking front page of The Sun on the day before the 2015 general election by the way.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...t-page-antisemitic-save-our-bacon-ed-miliband
I'm blaming Labour for choosing a leader who is not media friendly. This isn't anything new. Everyone has known since Kennedy beat Nixon that having someone who was good with the media was a critical factor in winning elections. Labour's naivety and arrogance, that they think they are somehow above base calculations about what it takes to win electoral advantage, is the problem here.
You are only proving my point. Brown was also thoroughly untelegenic, beaten by the more telegenic David Cameron. Milliband came across as well as Teresa May.
I dunno, the last time Labour thought seriously about how to win elections, they chose Blair, the sharpest media operator perhaps ever.
Also, IMO Labour activists keep confusing passion and romance for values.
The media constantly lying is on me? You're beyond parody.
No, it's alright now, because she's a Labourer, so it doesn't count.
People cry out for a principled, genuine politician who isn't only about soundbites and smiles for the camera.
When one comes along he is a threat to the status quo so the media smear him and sell the "unelectable" line till people believe it.
Don't you see how, if this continues, we will never end up with a genuine and principled politicians or leaders, from any party. Just more soundbites and media smiles?
Yeah, but if they have similar advertising models to my company's websites, it's ultimately all about pageviews. Obviously higher uniques and more articles per user are desirable/helpful, but most advertisers struggle to get beyond that headline pageviews figure.
In a war, you're going to be shot at. You can therefore choose to present a big target, or a small one. Labour's fanbase decided to present the biggest, fattest target they could have found in 50 years of electioneering warfare. Well done!
It's weird that he did better than the previous 2, smaller targets.
lovely touch.
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