UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[owlo]

I've been pretty busy [this is hectic and unpredictable], so apologies for my lack of posts containing bad insights here and there.

My current prediction for the GE is a possible Labour minority government, and a hung Parliament. I don't want to go too far into the nuts and bolts, but a few indicators regarding Conservative voter complacency and a large demographic change from usual polls leads me to believe the current models are possibly out by a few percentage points. These are still very good predictions, but in our system 2% here or there will swing loads of seats.

There are problems with this position. Corbyn is a walking timebomb, and the Cons are good at weaponising this. However the chief rabbis statement won't hurt him, and if anything is likely to draw him more votes where it matters, given the undercurrent of anti-semitism in the UK, especially in Labour leave heartlands. Both the Lib dems and Brexit party seem to be currently imploding, and this will bear relevance too.

Will be back with a bumper post sooner or later about the US Supreme Court vs Trump.... It's an interesting one, and their court system is taking quite a while for me to fully understand.

Ps. As an unrelated aside. @2cents your posts are excellent and a pleasure to read. I've long maintained that Corbyn, although not seeing himself as an Anti Semite is well accustomed to such tropes and feelings, simply because of his Marxist background growing up in the Soviet Era, when such things (Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism from a Soviet pov) were only natural. He's been around them his whole life.

 

[Rooney1987]

So Tories gain 41 seats and Labour lose 51, based of 2017 and the campaigning so far I just cant see it being that big of win for Boris. I still think Tories are on course for a majority but just imo.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

This poll is fairly accurate as far as the model goes. The only problem is that it is taking polling from couple weeks ago until now. Manifestos have been published since then, we have had debates, latest NHS scandal etc.

Last years MRP model was done one day before the election.

 

[horsechoker]

Stupid question but would the snp ever go into a coalition?

For example, would they form a coalition with Labour?

 

[esmufc07]

I've been pretty busy [this is hectic and unpredictable], so apologies for my lack of posts containing bad insights here and there.

My current prediction for the GE is a possible Labour minority government, and a hung Parliament. I don't want to go too far into the nuts and bolts, but a few indicators regarding Conservative voter complacency and a large demographic change from usual polls leads me to believe the current models are possibly out by a few percentage points. These are still very good predictions, but in our system 2% here or there will swing loads of seats.

There are problems with this position. Corbyn is a walking timebomb, and the Cons are good at weaponising this. However the chief rabbis statement won't hurt him, and if anything is likely to draw him more votes where it matters, given the undercurrent of anti-semitism in the UK, especially in Labour leave heartlands. Both the Lib dems and Brexit party seem to be currently imploding, and this will bear relevance too.

Will be back with a bumper post sooner or later about the US Supreme Court vs Trump.... It's an interesting one, and their court system is taking quite a while for me to fully understand.

Ps. As an unrelated aside. @2cents your posts are excellent and a pleasure to read. I've long maintained that Corbyn, although not seeing himself as an Anti Semite is well accustomed to such tropes and feelings, simply because of his Marxist background growing up in the Soviet Era, when such things (Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism from a Soviet pov) were only natural. He's been around them his whole life.

Good to see you back, hopefully you can find time to post a bit more as you seem in the know and your posts are always interesting.

 

[Kaos]

Stupid question but would the snp ever go into a coalition?

For example, would they form a coalition with Labour?

They've suggested they're happy to go into coalition with Labour on the grounds that agree to a second indy referendum.

 

[Sweet Square]

This poll is fairly accurate as far as the model goes. The only problem is that it is taking polling from couple weeks ago until now. Manifestos have been published since then, we have had debates, latest NHS scandal etc.

Last years MRP model was done one day before the election.

Yeah the timing is really weird. Wonder why they didn't wait until the last week of the election ?

 

[sullydnl]

I've been pretty busy [this is hectic and unpredictable], so apologies for my lack of posts containing bad insights here and there.

My current prediction for the GE is a possible Labour minority government, and a hung Parliament. I don't want to go too far into the nuts and bolts, but a few indicators regarding Conservative voter complacency and a large demographic change from usual polls leads me to believe the current models are possibly out by a few percentage points. These are still very good predictions, but in our system 2% here or there will swing loads of seats.

There are problems with this position. Corbyn is a walking timebomb, and the Cons are good at weaponising this. However the chief rabbis statement won't hurt him, and if anything is likely to draw him more votes where it matters, given the undercurrent of anti-semitism in the UK, especially in Labour leave heartlands. Both the Lib dems and Brexit party seem to be currently imploding, and this will bear relevance too.

Will be back with a bumper post sooner or later about the US Supreme Court vs Trump.... It's an interesting one, and their court system is taking quite a while for me to fully understand.

Ps. As an unrelated aside. @2cents your posts are excellent and a pleasure to read. I've long maintained that Corbyn, although not seeing himself as an Anti Semite is well accustomed to such tropes and feelings, simply because of his Marxist background growing up in the Soviet Era, when such things (Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism from a Soviet pov) were only natural. He's been around them his whole life.

It's probably a bad sign that this is the most heartening post I've read on Labour's chances in this election. Things are bad when their ability to gain the support of anti-semites is one of the plus points.

 

[Kaos]

Yeah the timing is really weird. Wonder why they didn't wait until the last week of the election ?

The cynic in me would point to the recent damning revelations on the NHS as well as Boris' cowardly no-show with Andrew Neil, hoping to deflate Labour's momentum.

But again you could also argue this could also fester complacency among the Tory faithful which obviously does them no favours.

Regardless I agree, its bizarre timing tbh.

 

[sun_tzu]

They've suggested they're happy to go into coalition with Labour on the grounds that agree to a second indy referendum.

Think they said confidence and supply more likley
Also suggested trident would be a red line

 

[Kaos]

Think they said confidence and supply more likley
Also suggested trident would be a red line

So essentially a coalition in all but name, for the sake of both sides saving face.

I also don't see Corbyn huffing and puffing too much on trident, he's been pretty much a consistently vehement opponent of it in the UK.

 

[sebsheep]

So essentially a coalition in all but name, for the sake of both sides saving face.

I also don't see Corbyn huffing and puffing too much on trident, he's been pretty much a consistently vehement opponent of it in the UK.

Didn't Corbyn say there would definitely be no coalition when he faced off with Johnson?

 

[sun_tzu]

So essentially a coalition in all but name, for the sake of both sides saving face.

I also don't see Corbyn huffing and puffing too much on trident, he's been pretty much a consistently vehement opponent of it in the UK.

Corbyn yes... He might struggle to keep all his own party in line... And of course libs might also be needed in any coalition and I don't think they would sign up to indy ref 2 or scrapping trident

 

[Ubik]

This poll is fairly accurate as far as the model goes. The only problem is that it is taking polling from couple weeks ago until now. Manifestos have been published since then, we have had debates, latest NHS scandal etc.

Last years MRP model was done one day before the election.

No, they did 2 last election. The one 2 weeks before the election was the one that caused headlines because it made ridiculous predictions like the hung parliament and Labour winning Canterbury. Was actually more accurate than the one published the night before I think.

 

[Kaos]

Didn't Corbyn say there would definitely be no coalition when he faced off with Johnson?

I can't remember the specifics of what he said, but he might have used vague rhetoric along the lines of - 'we have no intention to go into coalition with anyone, we're planning on a majority etc', i.e no plans to enter a formal coalition.

Corbyn yes... He might struggle to keep all his own party in line... And of course libs might also be needed in any coalition and I don't think they would sign up to indy ref 2 or scrapping trident

If the Libs refuse the only coalition option they have that gives them the chance to reverse Brexit, and their inaction leads to the Tories forcing through Brexit, then thats them permanently banished to history. They're still struggling to recover from the perceived betrayal in 2010, this would just seal it. They could just abstain and risk the consequences of a hung parliament, or naively trust a Tory promise of a referendum somewhere down the line, but chances are neither will end favourably for them.

 

[Jippy]

I forgot how derided that hung parliament poll in 2017 was.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/31/yougov-poll-predicting-hung-parliament-brave



YouGov not just at odds with other pollsters but also with their ex top honcho @PeterKellner1 who predicts Con lead 66 seats...brave stuff! https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/869664142562603008 …

 

[owlo]

If the Libs refuse the only coalition option they have that gives them the chance to reverse Brexit, and their inaction leads to the Tories forcing through Brexit, then thats them permanently banished to history. They're still struggling to recover from the perceived betrayal in 2010, this would just seal it. They could just abstain and risk the consequences of a hung parliament, or naively trust a Tory promise of a referendum somewhere down the line, but chances are neither will end favourably for them.

I don't believe BJ could command the confidence of the house in another hung parliament. He's too untrustworthy. With Tories in a hypothetical minority, whipping them would become that much more difficult.

I also don't believe Sturgeon wants Trident gone. Simply political horse trading for what she does want.

 

[sammsky1]

I've been pretty busy [this is hectic and unpredictable], so apologies for my lack of posts containing bad insights here and there.

My current prediction for the GE is a possible Labour minority government, and a hung Parliament. I don't want to go too far into the nuts and bolts, but a few indicators regarding Conservative voter complacency and a large demographic change from usual polls leads me to believe the current models are possibly out by a few percentage points. These are still very good predictions, but in our system 2% here or there will swing loads of seats.

There are problems with this position. Corbyn is a walking timebomb, and the Cons are good at weaponising this. However the chief rabbis statement won't hurt him, and if anything is likely to draw him more votes where it matters, given the undercurrent of anti-semitism in the UK, especially in Labour leave heartlands. Both the Lib dems and Brexit party seem to be currently imploding, and this will bear relevance too.

Will be back with a bumper post sooner or later about the US Supreme Court vs Trump.... It's an interesting one, and their court system is taking quite a while for me to fully understand.

Ps. As an unrelated aside. @2cents your posts are excellent and a pleasure to read. I've long maintained that Corbyn, although not seeing himself as an Anti Semite is well accustomed to such tropes and feelings, simply because of his Marxist background growing up in the Soviet Era, when such things (Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism from a Soviet pov) were only natural. He's been around them his whole life.

Hello sir. Was thinking of tagging you in a post just now and saw this post!

Wanted to ask your legal opinion on what constitutes electoral purdah. If BJ refuses a BBC Neil interview, can BBC be held in contempt of Purdah, and if so, what is the process, timeline and ramifications of such?

Could the election be cancelled because of lack of impartiality from the state broadcaster? Is this a likely path Labour world pursue?

 

[Kaos]

I don't believe BJ could command the confidence of the house in another hung parliament. He's too untrustworthy. With Tories in a hypothetical minority, whipping them would become that much more difficult.

I also don't believe Sturgeon wants Trident gone. Simply political horse trading for what she does want.

You seem to be a revered analyst round these parts so forgive me for indulgently picking your brains on this one - what do you see happening in the case of a hung parliament with no party garnering a majority, and no coalition agreements formalised. How do you see that particular deadlock being broken? Do we just persist with electoral hell until we get a decisive result, or do you eventually see a smaller party holding their nose and begrudgingly forming a coalition, if so who are the likely coalition partners in that scenario?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Five years (at least!) of Prime Minister Johnson. Where’s the vomit smiley?

the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn. That man is unelectable - most rational labour supporters can see this

you would have thought that after 9 years of Tory leadership something would change.
Polls have been wrong before, but this should still be regarded as a wake up call

Clearly is doesn’t mean anything, and could be very wrong. Whilst this Govt has sleep-walked through the last 3 years, the potential of a Labour or SNP-Labour Govt is a a far worse alternative

Spot on.

England's shifted too much to the right for Corbyn to ever be a realistic winner. I would say the media propaganda against him doesn't help but that would be true for any Labour leader tbf.

disagree. It actually leaves far more room for the Labour Party on the middle ground. If labour had a progressive, moderate leader and a cohesive shadow cabinet, there would be a massive opportunity for labour to win. It would be at the very least competitive and provide a far better choice for the electorate.

 

[owlo]

Hello sir. Was thinking of tagging you in a post just now and saw this post!

Wanted to ask your legal opinion on what constitutes electoral purdah. If BJ refuses a BBC Neil interview, can BBC be held in contempt of Purdah, and if so, what are the ramifications of such?

Could the election be cancelled because of lack of impartiality from the state broadcaster? Is this a likely path Labour world pursue?

Hi! Short answer to the both questions is no.

Long answer is I don't know enough about it to give a definitive no, but I can't see it being pursued in any case.

 

[owlo]

You seem to be a revered analyst round these parts so forgive me for indulgently picking your brains on this one - what do you see happening in the case of a hung parliament with no party garnering a majority, and no coalition agreements formalised. How do you see that particular deadlock being broken? Do we just persist with electoral hell until we get a decisive result, or do you eventually see a smaller party holding their nose and begrudgingly forming a coalition, if so who are the likely coalition partners in that scenario?

I have absolutely no idea. (Betrays my revered analyst niche but I don't!) I believe if there is no way to find the confidence of the house, we head for another general election.

I think in practice, if the SNP and Lib Dems managed to turn a hung parliament into another GE, and then the Tories went on to win and hard exit, that would spell major trouble for them. Therefore it would be in their mutual interest to form at least some sort of short term agreement that could last as long as another referendum. I think even the DUP could be brought on board in these circumstances.

I know that Swinson and Lib Dem central is saying their policy is revoke, but I've heard their local candidates claim that their real position is a referendum as they would never get their own majority. This seems to suggest they are prepared for some sort of deal. That said, I have no confidence in either Swinson or Corbyn to get things done. Sturgeon wouldn't be a problem; she's pragmatic enough to take her indyref2 and a bit more cash and devolution and support it.

 

[Honest John]

Spot on.

England's shifted too much to the right for Corbyn to ever be a realistic winner. I would say the media propaganda against him doesn't help but that would be true for any Labour leader tbf.

I would not say it was a case of England slipping too much to the right - it just hasn’t slipped to the left as much a some on here think.

 

[Sweet Square]

With the IHRA and Williamson, massive resistance was put up by the Corbynite wing of the party. Here’s what Corbyn was saying about Williamson in February, not long after Williamson had posted a petition in support of Gilad Atzmon:

"Chris Williamson is a very good, very effective Labour MP. He’s a very strong anti-racist campaigner. He is not antisemitic in any way.”

We all know that Corbyn would have the likes of Williamson, Livingston and even Galloway back in the party in a heartbeat if they weren’t so poisonous.

Labour accepted the IHRA and the people you mentioned aren't in the party, its as simply as that. We can have debate on this topic but I'm really not that interested in debating your fantasy football politics.

As for new procedures/process and all that, I’m sure you recall this image (described as “benign” by a Cafe Corbynite):

A guy called Thomas Gardiner, who is variously described as Labour's Head of Compliance/Head of Governance and Legal, and is charged with overseeing complaints, judged at the time that there was no problem with it. He saw it as an example of criticism of Israel, not anti-semitism. Instead of being moved to an entirely different role when the story broke, as he should have been, Gardiner has remained in this position, and doesn't seem to have publicly acknowledged that he has no idea when explicit, neo-Nazi-type antisemitism in staring him right in the face. So it's not really surprising that Andrew Neil was able to catch Corbyn out so easily with those two examples of blatant anti-semitism going unpunished, or that many people generally have no faith that the complaints process is being run as it should. The guy should have nothing to do with any of this process, and his continued presence there undermines any claims that Corbyn's Labour has somehow seen the light in recent months.

Well firstly I've talked to @Silva (Also I'm guessing he would be insulted to be called a Cafe Corbynite)and I ended up taken 10 socialist points away from him(He can only posts West Wing quotes until the end of the month)! But yes the Labour party is shite, now join the very long queue, right next to trans people, anyone who faced violence from the police or the British army, sex workers, any person of colour and so on. This incident while clearly awful doesn't make the Labour Party institutional anti semitic, let alone(As I think Silva pointed out at the time)a threat to lives of British Jews.

Which is the argument. It isn't the Labour Party bureaucracy is shite and the process alienates british jews(Which it clearly does), its that the party is rife with antisemitism and a danger to jews. This critique of Labour being full of anti semites and danger to jews, isn't base on any evidence, when the Rabi Ephraim Mirvis says Jews have justified anxiety over prospect of Jeremy Corbyn election win and that Labour has let poison of antisemitism take root, there is no evidence of this, he is lying. Thats rather important, right ? Again many British Jews of course feel differently about this but its not backed up with evidence.

I praised the Rothschilds video the Momentum people made a while back. Which is why I was genuinely surprised to see Corbyn so reluctant last night to concede (in the very first question he faced) that the Rothschild conspiracy is antisemitic (I think it took him four responses to grudgingly admit it is an "antisemitic trope"). I doubt if Corbyn really understands the problem at all. Again, this was pretty good, although parts of it could be seen as critiquing Corbyn himself (especially the opening paragraph on conspiracy theories and the opening two paragraphs of the section on Zionism), and of course it makes no mention of the Islamist antisemitism which Corbyn has dismissed or explained away throughout his career. And by the time the video and statement above came out, it was probably seen as too little too late by many. Certainly a section of the party gets some credit from me for those efforts, but the leadership doesn't.

But then these people should say there's nothing Labour can do to improve the situation. If its too little too late why the constant asking of the party to do more ? People keep saying more needs to be done and then when the party does move, there is no acknowledgement of this. All happens is more calls for higher standards(Although the reality is these standards are unreachable and down right bizarre - disowning certain social media accounts ) and extreme meltdowns by people who think their lives are endanger if Labour slags off bankers, Corbyn incorrectly pronounces someone name or actually the real danger is the thought process of Labour and not actual views of the party(Something impossible to prove). What is the difference between someone thinking Labour pose a threat to British Jews and US republicans thinking Bernie Sanders is going to put them in forced soviet work camps ?

The goal posts in this debate around Labour and anti semtisism have moved quicker than a Palestinian family from the West Bank. Vulgar joke, I know

Also I have to mentioned this, we hear all the time that Corbyn is just a puppet controlled by Momentum(Oddly no one points out the anti semitic trope here) or that Momentum is a Corbyn ''cult' but as soon as they produce something people agree with, its well of course leadership had nothing to do with it. Not giving the labour leadership credit for content made by Momentum is bizarre and a pointless way to argue(Corbyn would have clearly signed off on it).

I understand this is all very irritating for those who have placed all their hopes for the future in Corbyn's hands. For those of us who just see Corbyn as another politician, however, it's all absolutely fair game.

Yeah sadly not, it would be nice if life was this easy. But the reality is, its pretty depressing knowing how far away socialism is, in terms of changing the world. Also no one said Corbyn can't be criticised or isn't fair game but that if people are going to makes claims of large scale anti semitism then it should be based on evidence.

I have little doubt in my mind that if a politician whose politics you vehemently opposed invited a far-right proponent of the Blood Libel to Westminster for tea, described him as an "honored citizen", and claimed that criticism of him was a product of the "Zionist Lobby", you would have no hesitation in describing him as an anti-semite, and you probably wouldn't think too highly of anyone who defended him on the matter.

Also you might want to add in Corbyn voting for Britain to take in Jewish refugees and the campaign he was part of to save a Jewish cemetery, just for a bit of balance.

God this really was pointless.

 

[Kinsella]

Have they provided the respective vote shares?

 

[Sweet Square]

The cynic in me would point to the recent damning revelations on the NHS as well as Boris' cowardly no-show with Andrew Neil, hoping to deflate Labour's momentum.

But again you could also argue this could also fester complacency among the Tory faithful which obviously does them no favours.

Regardless I agree, its bizarre timing tbh.

It seem odd for the polling company. With two weeks to go there is still the chance their prediction could be wrong(Who know what could happen), if they get this one right that will be two election in a row, why even take the risk.

 

[Kinsella]

Have they provided the respective vote shares?

Here they are -

If this projection turns out to be accurate, then it's even more gutting for those who wish to remain in the EU.

 

[berbatrick]

disagree. It actually leaves far more room for the Labour Party on the middle ground. If labour had a progressive, moderate leader and a cohesive shadow cabinet, there would be a massive opportunity for labour to win. It would be at the very least competitive and provide a far better choice for the electorate.

Does anyone remember this at all?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Kingdom_general_election
Right now is still the natural them if the comfortable majority Tory government that was elected against a sensible moderate progressive (whatever that combination means)

 

[BarcaSpurs]

That model has completely assumed the youth increase in 2017 was actually a myth based on this paper

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...1076067101118005068067066078070078031&EXT=pdf

Which with a sample size of 109 18-24 year olds polled just seems... pretty meaningless?

The Youthquake in 2017 was just completely obviously going to happen after Brexit the year before, I can't even believe there's any sort of controversy about it, it's just common sense that we had a more politically stimulated youth after an election and brexit in the space of 2 years, when compared to 2015 where literally nothing happened for 5 years.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

No, they did 2 last election. The one 2 weeks before the election was the one that caused headlines because it made ridiculous predictions like the hung parliament and Labour winning Canterbury. Was actually more accurate than the one published the night before I think.

The science was only applied with the data collected up until that time. And thints didn’t change much in the last two weeks. There’s no way to predict what would happen in the next two weeks and I’m sure they’ll do one before election night which will be closer to what might happen.

According to the poll the Conservatives are set to gain 43 seats from Labour however the swing required in some of them is as much as 20%.That’s a tad far fetched in my opinion.

 

[Ubik]

The science was only applied with the data collected up until that time. And thints didn’t change much in the last two weeks. There’s no way to predict what would happen in the next two weeks and I’m sure they’ll do one before election night which will be closer to what might happen.

According to the poll the Conservatives are set to gain 43 seats from Labour however the swing required in some of them is as much as 20%.That’s a tad far fetched in my opinion.

You're obviously entitled to think that, and it was the exact reasoning I used to assume the 2017 one was wrong. But big changes in voter behaviour can and do happen. We'll have to see. I think it'll narrow a bit more.

 

[berbatrick]

You're obviously entitled to think that, and it was the exact reasoning I used to assume the 2017 one was wrong. But big changes in voter behaviour can and do happen. We'll have to see. I think it'll narrow a bit more.

I think it's a good approximation of the final result given the polling so far. Obviously it can change, but it seems that Labour's trump card about the NHS is going to sink without a trace, so Boris can probably coast through the last week on his promise of Brexit against the antisemitic ditherer.

 

[berbatrick]

The science was only applied with the data collected up until that time. And thints didn’t change much in the last two weeks. There’s no way to predict what would happen in the next two weeks and I’m sure they’ll do one before election night which will be closer to what might happen.

According to the poll the Conservatives are set to gain 43 seats from Labour however the swing required in some of them is as much as 20%.That’s a tad far fetched in my opinion.

It's not just the turnout that's different. Here, the Tories overtake Labour at age 42 while in 217 it happened at 47.

 

[berbatrick]

That model has completely assumed the youth increase in 2017 was actually a myth based on this paper

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...1076067101118005068067066078070078031&EXT=pdf

Which with a sample size of 109 18-24 year olds polled just seems... pretty meaningless?

The Youthquake in 2017 was just completely obviously going to happen after Brexit the year before, I can't even believe there's any sort of controversy about it, it's just common sense that we had a more politically stimulated youth after an election and brexit in the space of 2 years, when compared to 2015 where literally nothing happened for 5 years.

It's not just the turnout that's different. Here, the Tories overtake Labour at age 42 while in 217 it happened at 47.

 

[berbatrick]

God this really was pointless.

This was about the coup in Bolivia, but especially the part from 1:10 to 1:40 clarified a lot of things for me:

 

[P-Nut]

I'm nowhere near as clued up as the rest of you it seems, however what are the chances of SNP forming a coalition with the tories on the promise of indy ref 2? That would leave the tories with a massive majority in the remaining seats

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I'm nowhere near as clued up as the rest of you it seems, however what are the chances of SNP forming a coalition with the tories on the promise of indy ref 2? That would leave the tories with a massive majority in the remaining seats

None whatsoever.

 

[Sweet Square]

This was about the coup in Bolivia, but especially the part from 1:10 to 1:40 clarified a lot of things for me:

Yep

This debate could go on until the end of time. Someone could point out a certain Corbyn quote and we would debate the context it was used in, we could debate the data on labour members and someone will say its actually not about their views on anti-Semitism but how they think about anti-semitism, we could even debate what was going through Corbyn mind when he said Jeffrey Epstein name and so on and so on. In the meantime Britain will move further to the right, privates its healthcare system, continue to help the Saudi Royal family cause a famine in Yemen, continue what can only be describe as state murder on disabled citizens and do absolutely feck all in tackling climate change. Oh and the next time Israel decides to murder peaceful Palestinian protesters, Britain will remain completely silent.

So really brilliant work by liberals here, battering to death with their big brain horse shoe takes the only political party that has both a plan to massively improve Britain but also the bare minimum of human decency to view Palestinians as human beings. By hey at least the lady from Countdown and the comedian who blacked up in the 90's feel comfortable.

 

[P-Nut]

None whatsoever.

Any idea as to why? To a simple mind, SNP want Scottish independence and the tories want a large majority, wouldn't a coalition between the 2 guarantee them both just that?

 

[Stanley Road]

Yep

This debate could go on until the end of time. Someone could point out a certain Corbyn quote and we would debate the context it was used in, we could debate the data on labour members and someone will say its actually not about their views on anti-Semitism but how they think about anti-semitism, we could even debate what was going through Corbyn mind when he said Jeffrey Epstein name and so on and so on. In the meantime Britain will move further to the right, privates its healthcare system, continue to help the Saudi Royal family cause a famine in Yemen, continue what can only be describe as state murder on disabled citizens and do absolutely feck all in tackling climate change. Oh and the next time Israel decides to murder peaceful Palestinian protesters, Britain will remain completely silent.

So really brilliant work by liberals here, battering to death with their big brain horse shoe takes the only political party that has both a plan to massively improve Britain but also the bare minimum of human decency to view Palestinians are human beings. By hey at least the lady from Countdown and the comedian who blacked up in the 90's feel comfortable.

Well said