UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%

  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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I agree but I think a deeper reason why the story has gained traction is that anti-semitism is no longer virulent among the broader population and therefore these accusations grab people’s attention. Anti-semitism all seems very pre-War and exotic. On the other hand, there is a large amount of anti-muslim sentiment.at large and I suspect a lot of people are at best indifferent to these stories and in many cases think “good old Boris” when he compares muslim women to letterboxes.
Yes, and the element of hypocrisy when it comes from a party that is supposedly anti-racist. Everyone expects the Tory Party to have racist elements in their mix so it's less newsworthy. I mean, the leader of the conservative party has made obviously racist comments on numerous occasions.

Dog bites man vs man bites dog.
 
I agree but I think a deeper reason why the story has gained traction is that anti-semitism is no longer virulent among the broader population and therefore these accusations grab people’s attention. Anti-semitism all seems very pre-War and exotic. On the other hand, there is a large amount of anti-muslim sentiment.at large and I suspect a lot of people are at best indifferent to these stories and in many cases think “good old Boris” when he compares muslim women to letterboxes.
You may be right. Unfortunately a side effect of Brexit has been the enabling of all kinds of overt racism that I thought we'd put to bed in this country. I think everyone expects the Tories to be - putting it kindly - ambivalent about racism. I think the appearance that Labour might also be ambivalent, given its history but also its self image, has been the real surprise and is possibly another reason why it's been more newsworthy.

Edit: MikeUpNorth just said that way better and in less words.
 
Possible breach of civil service code.

Is Cummings. Civil servant... He's not employed by the civil service to the best of my knowledge he is a freelance spad (special adviser) to Boris Johnson so I don't think the civil service code would apply to him would it?

the employment of special advisers adds a political dimension to the advice and assistance available to Ministers while reinforcing the political impartiality of the permanent Civil Service by distinguishing the source of political advice and support [...] Special advisers are employed to help Ministers on matters where the work of Government and the work of the Government Party overlap and where it would be inappropriate for permanent civil servants to become involved. They are an additional resource for the Minister providing assistance from a standpoint that is more politically committed and politically aware than would be available to a Minister from the permanent Civil Service
 
Yes, and the element of hypocrisy when it comes from a party that is supposedly anti-racist. Everyone expects the Tory Party to have racist elements in their mix so it's less newsworthy. I mean, the leader of the conservative party has made obviously racist comments on numerous occasions.

The soft bigotry of low expectations ;)
 
I’ve heard from a very reliable source that today’s YouGov MRP poll (that correctly predicted 2017), is going to show a very wide Tory victory. Grim.
 
You do know who Clive James was right?
Yeah, he's that guy who wasn't as famous as Peter Sissons - a guy who managed at best to be the second headline on the day his death was announced.

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But maybe I'm just being paranoid in thinking that the Beeb have an interest in controlling what the important stories should be. Fair enough, it's not like they're funded by taxpayers.
 
I’ve heard from a very reliable source that today’s YouGov MRP poll (that correctly predicted 2017), is going to show a very wide Tory victory. Grim.
They don't count the opinions of anyone under 93.
 
Yes, and the element of hypocrisy when it comes from a party that is supposedly anti-racist. Everyone expects the Tory Party to have racist elements in their mix so it's less newsworthy. I mean, the leader of the conservative party has made obviously racist comments on numerous occasions.

Dog bites man vs man bites dog.

Yes, no doubt. But, in the interests of balance, if you think about the old received wisdom that “Tories are heartless but competent” while “Labour have their heart in the right place but will crash the economy”, it’s telling that Johnson’s “F*ck business” remark is largely ignored. Man bites dog doesn’t always get coverage when most of the old print media is pro-Conservative.
 
I agree but I think a deeper reason why the story has gained traction is that anti-semitism is no longer virulent among the broader population and therefore these accusations grab people’s attention. Anti-semitism all seems very pre-War and exotic. On the other hand, there is a large amount of anti-muslim sentiment.at large and I suspect a lot of people are at best indifferent to these stories and in many cases think “good old Boris” when he compares muslim women to letterboxes.

So you're saying we have two levels of racism? It's all the same to me.
 
So you're saying we have two levels of racism? It's all the same to me.
I am not seeking to justify either - I am just saying that there is currently more anti-Muslim sentiment around than anti-Jewish, certainly in those battlegrounds in the Midlands and the North.
 
I am not seeking to justify either - I am just saying that there is currently more anti-Muslim sentiment around than anti-Jewish, certainly in those battlegrounds in the Midlands and the North.

There is plenty of anti-jewish sentiment in the North, this isn't a geography issue. They're both a problem, and both parties are failing at tackling the problems head on.
 
There is plenty of anti-jewish sentiment in the North, this isn't a geography issue. They're both a problem, and both parties are failing at tackling the problems head on.

We’ll agree to disagree on that point. Anti-muslim immigation sentiment drove the Brexit vote over the line. Farage’s poster, 80m Turks. Those points hit home. Anti-Jewish (even anti-Israel) is more of a niche interest. Your average white voter in somewhere like Bolton could not give two fecks about Jews. Get him started about “Bangladeane” however (it’s an area called Deane), and it’s a vote for Farage/Johnson.
 
Labour have accept the IHRA, ban members...Chris Williams is literally standing against the party because it got rid of him on anti semitic grounds.

With the IHRA and Williamson, massive resistance was put up by the Corbynite wing of the party. Here’s what Corbyn was saying about Williamson in February, not long after Williamson had posted a petition in support of Gilad Atzmon:

"Chris Williamson is a very good, very effective Labour MP. He’s a very strong anti-racist campaigner. He is not antisemitic in any way.”

We all know that Corbyn would have the likes of Williamson, Livingston and even Galloway back in the party in a heartbeat if they weren’t so poisonous. They’re his buddies, his comrades, and I’ve seen nothing coming from Corbyn himself to suggest he has any major disagreements with them on this issue. So you'll have to forgive people hesitant to credit Corbyn with those moves - they were purely the result of the type of pressure which Corbyn's more steadfast supporters have been complaining about all along.

As for new procedures/process and all that, I’m sure you recall this image (described as “benign” by a Cafe Corbynite):

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A guy called Thomas Gardiner, who is variously described as Labour's Head of Compliance/Head of Governance and Legal, and is charged with overseeing complaints, judged at the time that there was no problem with it. He saw it as an example of criticism of Israel, not anti-semitism. Instead of being moved to an entirely different role when the story broke, as he should have been, Gardiner has remained in this position, and doesn't seem to have publicly acknowledged that he has no idea when explicit, neo-Nazi-type antisemitism in staring him right in the face. So it's not really surprising that Andrew Neil was able to catch Corbyn out so easily with those two examples of blatant anti-semitism going unpunished, or that many people generally have no faith that the complaints process is being run as it should. The guy should have nothing to do with any of this process, and his continued presence there undermines any claims that Corbyn's Labour has somehow seen the light in recent months.

...made political educational video on fighting back against crank conspiracy theories.

I praised the Rothschilds video the Momentum people made a while back. Which is why I was genuinely surprised to see Corbyn so reluctant last night to concede (in the very first question he faced) that the Rothschild conspiracy is antisemitic (I think it took him four responses to grudgingly admit it is an "antisemitic trope"). I doubt if Corbyn really understands the problem at all. Again, this was pretty good, although parts of it could be seen as critiquing Corbyn himself (especially the opening paragraph on conspiracy theories and the opening two paragraphs of the section on Zionism), and of course it makes no mention of the Islamist antisemitism which Corbyn has dismissed or explained away throughout his career. And by the time the video and statement above came out, it was probably seen as too little too late by many. Certainly a section of the party gets some credit from me for those efforts, but the leadership doesn't.

Not to mention the labour party at its best could be a educational tool for working class people, simply kicking anyone out the party for crank conspiracy theories does feck all in helping change the country.

Labour is trying to create socialism in Britain, it isn't trying to get someone on twitter fired.

I understand this is all very irritating for those who have placed all their hopes for the future in Corbyn's hands. For those of us who just see Corbyn as another politician, however, it's all absolutely fair game. I have little doubt in my mind that if a politician whose politics you vehemently opposed invited a far-right proponent of the Blood Libel to Westminster for tea, described him as an "honored citizen", and claimed that criticism of him was a product of the "Zionist Lobby", you would have no hesitation in describing him as an anti-semite, and you probably wouldn't think too highly of anyone who defended him on the matter.
 
BBC churning out this guff while Johnson is still holding out on the Andrew Neil interview is just peak GE19

 
That makes it three successive Prime Ministers who were (or are) desperate to avoid scrutiny.
Prorogued Parliament
Demanding BrExit bill be scrutinised in 3 days.
Refusing to publish Treasury assessment of his BrExit deal
Refusing to publish BrExit foreign interfence report.
Am sure there are a few more instances.

BJ is certainly consistent in ducking scrutiny. Labour have to win votes by making this stick, else they only have themselves to blame.
 
Do you have a document where they reference the examples .... As I say last I can see they have not updated things to reflect it as evidenced in the post.... Do you have a link to something that shows it?

Updated what exactly? When it reads anti-semtism it now reads the IHRA definition.

Just to anticipate your facetiousness, it doesn't define Islamophobia either despite again agreeing the standard. If you want to go take a perusal at the Lib Dem code of conduct likewise it doesn't define it as far as i can see.
 
Tory win fecks the DUP. Theyll forever be tarnished with the sea border, theres just no getting around it
 
BBC churning out this guff while Johnson is still holding out on the Andrew Neil interview is just peak GE19



Do you really think the BBC calling him out whilst they’re negotiating with him is going to get him to come on the show? He’d just claim it as obvious bias and use it as a reason not to go on.
 
Yes, and the element of hypocrisy when it comes from a party that is supposedly anti-racist. Everyone expects the Tory Party to have racist elements in their mix so it's less newsworthy. I mean, the leader of the conservative party has made obviously racist comments on numerous occasions.

Dog bites man vs man bites dog.
That’s so shit but it’s undeniably true. I think the same applies to Johnson himself...people just expect him to come out with all kinds of airy bullshit, whereas when it’s Corbyn, it’s different
 
Do you really think the BBC calling him out whilst they’re negotiating with him is going to get him to come on the show? He’d just claim it as obvious bias and use it as a reason not to go on.

Not suggesting they explicitly call him out but certainly refrain from putting out this sort of puff piece. There's an argument that they shouldn't be engaging in this sort of "journalism" at all let alone while he's still not agreed to do an interview.
 
Well then.

On the plus side, every time I've used the measure that managed to predict the last election to confidently predict the coming one, it's been wrong :lol:
 
you would have thought that after 9 years of Tory leadership something would change.
Polls have been wrong before, but this should still be regarded as a wake up call
 
Doesn't surprise me with the tories so far ahead. Despite lots of people on my social media highlighting the problems with Johnson / tories, it just gets laughed off with terrorist sympathiser Corbyn blah blah. I actually expect the young vote to be a lot closer than people are imaging.
 
Doesn't surprise me with the tories so far ahead. Despite lots of people on my social media highlighting the problems with Johnson / tories, it just gets laughed off with terrorist sympathiser Corbyn blah blah. I actually expect the young vote to be a lot closer than people are imaging.
It's been said for years: Corbyn is unelectable. Labour have missed an open-goal by sticking with him.

The people who like him, really like him. The people who hate him, really hate him. The people in the middle think he's too much of an idealist. And undecided voters are switched off by his lack of charisma. He offers nothing as a leader.
 
It's been said for years: Corbyn is unelectable. Labour have missed an open-goal by sticking with him.

The people who like him, really like him. The people who hate him, really hate him. The people in the middle think he's too much of an idealist. And undecided voters are switched off by his lack of charisma. He offers nothing as a leader.

Spot on.

England's shifted too much to the right for Corbyn to ever be a realistic winner. I would say the media propaganda against him doesn't help but that would be true for any Labour leader tbf.
 
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