UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%

  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
I've always felt that this was a Brexit election and that would be the big catalyst for a change in voter behaviour.



I think on the quiet the SNP will be happy with a Tory government because it will enable them to build the divide between the UK and Scotland through rhetoric and make independence more likely in 5-10 years time.

There's no way on earth that any UK govt could allow a referendum in 2020 so why are the SNP crying so loudly for it to happen? So when it doesn't they can accuse Westminster of 'thwarting the will of the Scottish people' and so on.

I think this is a very good point, Sturgeon doesn't seem to be helping Corbyn at all, in fact is even making his life more difficult.

I think SNP know they would lose a referendum in the next couple of years, and that probably would be it for 30 years. Whereas another 5 years of the Tories and post Brexit who knows.
 
It looks like Boris's strategy from the end of last parliament, where they framed Labour and parliament as the enemy of the people, and through the election campaign so far has worked as well as they could have expected.

Another interesting thing the Tories have done is sidelined the likes Rees-Mogg and put a lot of minority candidates forward for TV interviews etc in order to change their traditional image. The bloke they're putting forward for the Channel 4 debate is someone I'd never even heard of.

Say what you want about him, Cummings is an electoral genius. I imagine Rees-Mogg is still locked in his basement.
 
But if the national headlines for the next few days are full of Labour talking about how great it will be to Leave the EU under a Labour Government, they could easily lose votes from one group even as they gain from another.

Always a problem when you try to ride two horses at once.

I suppose for someone with the political history of Jeremy, i.e. a lifetime of being opposed to that which everyone else supported, supporting that which everyone else rejected, being a student of Tony Benn the arch anti -EU politician of the left, he's done well to get to the starting post of a GE race, for the second time, as leader of HM's Opposition; this despite the fact that with help from the media he repeatedly shoots himself in the foot. Whatever possessed him to go up against the 'inquisitor in chief'/'Fact tester General' in Andrew Neild, alone and unaided. Indeed "those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad"?

Jeremy just loves to campaign and attending rallies are his forte, and just like Trump he loves preaching to the converted. Unfortunately for Jeremy he doesn't have the base numbers that 'the Donald' does, and he frightens the horses with some of his suggestions. Wanting to leave the EU is not the only reason whole swarths of traditional Labour voters are set to desert him and the party, especially in the North and parts of the Midlands, his belief that the 'State should run everything' mantra does not sit well with people who perceive there are still lots of benefit scroungers, as well as the tax dodgers/evaders running amok in this country, but whom Jeremy never mentions.

As the GE finishing post draws near, like or not, Jeremy will have to decide which horse he will choose to carry him over the line, but at the moment it looks like he will fall between the two.
 
I suspect he’s not as unpopular as we think. The leavers seem to adore him for one. I suspect those with strong views on immigration (an increasingly large number) will also harbour favourable opinions.

Agreed, I think it's a bit of a myth he's unpopular in the UK. Probably 20% of the population absolutely hate him but the other 80 would be interested in what he has to say.
 
Say what you want about him, Cummings is an electoral genius. I imagine Rees-Mogg is still locked in his basement.
It’s just annoying that championing a strategy that focuses on lies, smears, hyperbolic fear-mongering and cowardly ducking debates/interviews is seen as being super effective. Says a lot about the current state of our democracy and it frightens me to imagine how it’ll be in the future too.
 
Apparently they are now going to run 2 campaigns
pushing remain credentials in remain areas (lost track of how many people on here say remainers must vote labour)
and leave credentials in leave areas
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50580699
brexit-news-tv-debate-cancelled-itv-bbc-theresa-may-jerremy-corbyn-2-1633492.jpg

Dangerous for Labour I think, could let Lib Dems back in the game in the south. They could've done it at the beginning of the campaign but not now.
 
Dangerous for Labour I think, could let Lib Dems back in the game in the south. They could've done it at the beginning of the campaign but not now.
just looks like a last roll of the dice after they saw the yougov mrp forecast and corbyn had a nightmare interview
not sure it will play well but i guess if they believe the polls and they are going to get smashed they might as well try anything - I expect a few more un-costed giveaways as well
 
It’s just annoying that championing a strategy that focuses on lies, smears, hyperbolic fear-mongering and cowardly ducking debates/interviews is seen as being super effective. Says a lot about the current state of our democracy and it frightens me to imagine how it’ll be in the future too.

This is obviously a very negative interpretation. What the polls are suggesting is that he's managed to use Brexit to build a new coalition that squeezes Labour, which is excellent political positioning.

I think both sides have been guilty of lies and smears and I actually don't think it's helped the Tories or Labour. But surely the biggest example of hyperbolic fear mongering in this election has been the NHS for sale schtick? The documents yesterday showed that was a ridiculous accusation.
 
I think the other thing that could haunt Labour is that they didn't support May's deal. We're likely now looking at a the annihilation of Labour and a much harder Brexit. If they'd passed May's deal the US trade deal would have been impossible in the shape of their worst fears. Labour would have also been able to focus fully on a domestic agenda for an election in 2022.
 
There are a couple of people in the office who are only voting Conservative because they think Boris is the only one who’ll “get it done”, and it depresses me.
 
This is obviously a very negative interpretation. What the polls are suggesting is that he's managed to use Brexit to build a new coalition that squeezes Labour, which is excellent political positioning.

I think both sides have been guilty of lies and smears and I actually don't think it's helped the Tories or Labour. But surely the biggest example of hyperbolic fear mongering in this election has been the NHS for sale schtick? The documents yesterday showed that was a ridiculous accusation.

The NHS is for sale but it won't be done in a single transaction. It'll be cut, strangled and sold off bit by bit until it's no longer fit for purpose. This is already happening unfortunately and Tony Blair's new Labour are as at fault as anyone for inviting privatisation into the NHS in the first instance.
 
The NHS is for sale but it won't be done in a single transaction. It'll be cut, strangled and sold off bit by bit until it's no longer fit for purpose. This is already happening unfortunately and Tony Blair's new Labour are as at fault as anyone for inviting privatisation into the NHS in the first instance.

Ok, I understand what you are saying. However the way it is being framed by Labour/Corbyn is that its going to be sold off next year to Donald Trump or already has been in some kind of underhand deal. This is hyperbolic in the extreme.
 
Ok, I understand what you are saying. However the way it is being framed by Labour/Corbyn is that its going to be sold off next year to Donald Trump or already has been in some kind of underhand deal. This is hyperbolic in the extreme.

Its the actions of a drowning man clutching at straws, shameful position for a party such as Labour has been in the past. No one believes the NHS is to be sold off, some parts had been privatised, but that was Labours PFI doing.

The NHS is seen as a national treasure, but ultimately it is how it performs which is what people really worry about. As long as the NHS remains free at the point of delivery and it offers, and is perceived to offer, a good service, no one will worry about who owns it.

Social care is more of a problem, but after previous attempts under Labour and then May's 'dementia tax' to get funding without raising taxes, neither of the main parties want to touch it in terms of how it should be paid for, because the truth is they still have to decided just what the complete remit of Social Care actually covers and how it overlaps with the NHS.

This whole area of NHS/Social Care will cost more and more, even as its becomes defined more clearly, Billions more are needed at a guess, but until we as a nation stop guessing and get down to first to deciding what it covers and then evaluating and costing what it contains to deliver at the levels we believe are correct, then it will continue to be a political football, simply because of the costs.
 
There are a couple of people in the office who are only voting Conservative because they think Boris is the only one who’ll “get it done”, and it depresses me.

Indeed. I think Labour need to ask themselves why they've lost a huge chunk of the working class vote to the Tories. I'm in a marginal Labour swing seat that they won by about 800 votes (back from the Tories) in 2017. I would be very surprised if it doesn't swing back the other way this time and in all honesty the Tories have really had to do nothing to win it back. The guy they've parachuted in doesn't even live here. In the 5/6 years I've been here I've seen homelessness increase tenfold, shops close down on a weekly basis and the local councils cut to the bear bones. So you'd think why aren't they blaming the Tories? Well they aren't because of the other significant issue that is the elephant in the room, immigration. It's massive, complex but incredibly difficult to have an adult conversation about without mud slinging and accusations of racism.

To be blunt there's an issue with a section of the Romanian community in this town and I say this as a Labour lefty who grew up in one of the most multicultural diverse cities in the UK and think it's all the better for it. Last week there was huge gang fight in this community that led to a major road being shut down for most of the day, multiple arrests and stop and search throughout the weekend. People will always claim it's hyperbole and although I've never felt unsafe personally there is no way I would let my step daughter go through certain parts of town on her own. I've walked behind young girls and heard groups of lads shout "pussy, pussy. hey sexy" etc... as girls walk by and that's just the verbal stuff. It's intimidating and worrying.

Personally though I can separate that, leave the (criminally underfunded) police to deal with it and look at the bigger picture. Many can't. It's easy and simplistic to say "we want these scumbags off the streets" and then everything will be rosy again but that's how this campaign and Brexit has been won. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, there are a chunk of racist, xenophobic working class voters that Labour have lost but that doesn't mean some of the concerns they have aren't legitimate and when one of their flagstone policies is to expand immigration, well, they're not going to win those voters back.
 
Its the actions of a drowning man clutching at straws, shameful position for a party such as Labour has been in the past. No one believes the NHS is to be sold off, some parts had been privatised, but that was Labours PFI doing.

The NHS is seen as a national treasure, but ultimately it is how it performs which is what people really worry about. As long as the NHS remains free at the point of delivery and it offers, and is perceived to offer, a good service, no one will worry about who owns it.

Social care is more of a problem, but after previous attempts under Labour and then May's 'dementia tax' to get funding without raising taxes, neither of the main parties want to touch it in terms of how it should be paid for, because the truth is they still have to decided just what the complete remit of Social Care actually covers and how it overlaps with the NHS.

This whole area of NHS/Social Care will cost more and more, even as its becomes defined more clearly, Billions more are needed at a guess, but until we as a nation stop guessing and get down to first to deciding what it covers and then evaluating and costing what it contains to deliver at the levels we believe are correct, then it will continue to be a political football, simply because of the costs.

Completely agree. I actually thought May's policy was a very good and fair one, but then as I've said before I don't really get why people in this country are so addicted to the idea of getting inheritance.
 
Indeed. I think Labour need to ask themselves why they've lost a huge chunk of the working class vote to the Tories. I'm in a marginal Labour swing seat that they won by about 800 votes (back from the Tories) in 2017. I would be very surprised if it doesn't swing back the other way this time and in all honesty the Tories have really had to do nothing to win it back. The guy they've parachuted in doesn't even live here. In the 5/6 years I've been here I've seen homelessness increase tenfold, shops close down on a weekly basis and the local councils cut to the bear bones. So you'd think why aren't they blaming the Tories? Well they aren't because of the other significant issue that is the elephant in the room, immigration. It's massive, complex but incredibly difficult to have an adult conversation about without mud slinging and accusations of racism.

To be blunt there's an issue with a section of the Romanian community in this town and I say this as a Labour lefty who grew up in one of the most multicultural diverse cities in the UK and think it's all the better for it. Last week there was huge gang fight in this community that led to a major road being shut down for most of the day, multiple arrests and stop and search throughout the weekend. People will always claim it's hyperbole and although I've never felt unsafe personally there is no way I would let my step daughter go through certain parts of town on her own. I've walked behind young girls and heard groups of lads shout "pussy, pussy. hey sexy" etc... as girls walk by and that's just the verbal stuff. It's intimidating and worrying.

Personally though I can separate that, leave the (criminally underfunded) police to deal with it and look at the bigger picture. Many can't. It's easy and simplistic to say "we want these scumbags off the streets" and then everything will be rosy again but that's how this campaign and Brexit has been won. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, there are a chunk of racist, xenophobic working class voters that Labour have lost but that doesn't mean some of the concerns they have aren't legitimate and when one of their flagstone policies is to expand immigration, well, they're not going to win those voters back.

Excellent post, thanks for sharing.
 
Ok, I understand what you are saying. However the way it is being framed by Labour/Corbyn is that its going to be sold off next year to Donald Trump or already has been in some kind of underhand deal. This is hyperbolic in the extreme.
And anyone who thinks your "typical" Conservative voter would be happy if the NHS is drastically changed (and didn't retain its basic principle of being there for everyone) is naive.

Major changes to the NHS would be political suicide. Increased privatisation is likely, partly because we haven't got the staff numbers and occasionally, it's cheaper/more effective (like the outsourcing of some of the IT work).

Do I like it... no. Will it happen.... a little. Are we "selling" the NHS... no.
 
The NHS is for sale but it won't be done in a single transaction. It'll be cut, strangled and sold off bit by bit until it's no longer fit for purpose. This is already happening unfortunately and Tony Blair's new Labour are as at fault as anyone for inviting privatisation into the NHS in the first instance.
Labour have been saying the Tories have been selling the NHS since I started watching Question Time in the 70's with Robin Day presenting. That is over 40 years ago, so if the 'piecemeal' argument was true it ought to be well gone by now. It hasn't happened and it won't. It is a sacred cow that no party dares mess with, lest they want to be wiped out.

At the moment private companies provide between 7% and 25% of services, depending on what way you want to slant the stats. Both Labour and Conservatives have presided over this and some of the Companies are American owned. However, the basic model is still the same.

What is needed is for it to cease being a political football and for a cross-party review or a Royal Commission to be conducted to establish whether the current funding model and the way it is run is fit for purpose in 21st century Britain. It should be impartial, honest and take account of other models worldwide.

It is a bottomless pit for money as parties of both colours have found out. So simply throwing billions and billions at it will not on it's own solve the issues.

We all use it and we all want it to work properly. We all pay for it so we want value for money too.

There are no sides in this argument as I see it.
 
I think the other thing that could haunt Labour is that they didn't support May's deal. We're likely now looking at a the annihilation of Labour and a much harder Brexit. If they'd passed May's deal the US trade deal would have been impossible in the shape of their worst fears. Labour would have also been able to focus fully on a domestic agenda for an election in 2022.
This.
 
Labour have been saying the Tories have been selling the NHS since I started watching Question Time in the 70's with Robin Day presenting. That is over 40 years ago, so if the 'piecemeal' argument was true it ought to be well gone by now. It hasn't happened and it won't. It is a sacred cow that no party dares mess with, lest they want to be wiped out.

At the moment private companies provide between 7% and 25% of services, depending on what way you want to slant the stats. Both Labour and Conservatives have presided over this and some of the Companies are American owned. However, the basic model is still the same.

What is needed is for it to cease being a political football and for a cross-party review or a Royal Commission to be conducted to establish whether the current funding model and the way it is run is fit for purpose in 21st century Britain. It should be impartial, honest and take account of other models worldwide.

It is a bottomless pit for money as parties of both colours have found out. So simply throwing billions and billions at it will not on it's own solve the issues.

We all use it and we all want it to work properly. We all pay for it so we want value for money too.

There are no sides in this argument as I see it.

Yeah I can agree with that. I think from a personal point of view what concerns me most about these leaks yesterday is the idea that medicine costs could skyrocket. As a partner of someone who suffers from Type 1 diabetes that worries me a lot.

It's easy to say that people have been saying the NHS is up for sale for god knows how long but with a hard Brexit all but inevitable there is now a perfect storm for it to be dismantled. We are going to be so vulnerable in the coming years and it's pretty bleak to think of a Tory majority with the most duplicitous bunch of politicians I've ever known in charge of the UK at the worst possible time. They will do nothing for the people that will suffer the most.
 
And anyone who thinks your "typical" Conservative voter would be happy if the NHS is drastically changed (and didn't retain its basic principle of being there for everyone) is naive.

Major changes to the NHS would be political suicide. Increased privatisation is likely, partly because we haven't got the staff numbers and occasionally, it's cheaper/more effective (like the outsourcing of some of the IT work).

Do I like it... no. Will it happen.... a little. Are we "selling" the NHS... no.

Selling it down the river certainly. The documents are quite clear that the US want what they see as fairer access in selling us drugs at their hiked up prices and the Tories seem relaxed in removing the existing protections preventing this. Off label prescriptions and longer patents another area within the documents.

It seems to me that the Daily Mail crowd can't think beyond the simplistic notion of the entire NHS being up for sale. Open the door to these firms and remove the protections and the costs will make the NHS untenable.

Soon it'll be "Oh the NHS doesn't work, we need a mixed model". That's not even guesswork we've seen many Tory MPs already pushing this so the idea they won't include this to win a trade deal is just fanciful.
 
Yeah I can agree with that. I think from a personal point of view what concerns me most about these leaks yesterday is the idea that medicine costs could skyrocket. As a partner of someone who suffers from Type 1 diabetes that worries me a lot.

It's easy to say that people have been saying the NHS is up for sale for god knows how long but with a hard Brexit all but inevitable there is now a perfect storm for it to be dismantled. We are going to be so vulnerable in the coming years and it's pretty bleak to think of a Tory majority with the most duplicitous bunch of politicians I've ever known in charge of the UK at the worst possible time. They will do nothing for the people that will suffer the most.

Given your situation I can completely understand why it would be really worrying. I just don't see why it would be in any UK governments interest to allow that to happen. You can understand why the US would ask for it (I'm sure pharmaceutical lobbyists will make sure this issue comes up regularly) but I can't see why the UK would ever acquiesce, indeed just imagine how politically damaging it would be.

I think the farming/food standards and labelling is much more worrying in terms of a trade deal with the US. I imagine this will be much more core to the negotiations.
 
Selling it down the river certainly. The documents are quite clear that the US want what they see as fairer access in selling us drugs at their hiked up prices and the Tories seem relaxed in removing the existing protections preventing this. Off label prescriptions and longer patents another area within the documents.

It seems to me that the Daily Mail crowd can't think beyond the simplistic notion of the entire NHS being up for sale. Open the door to these firms and remove the protections and the costs will make the NHS untenable.

Soon it'll be "Oh the NHS doesn't work, we need a mixed model". That's not even guesswork we've seen many Tory MPs already pushing this so the idea they won't include this to win a trade deal is just fanciful.

Why does it seem the Tories are relaxed about this? They have said in their manifesto and multiple times in interviews that their policy is for drug prices not to rise. You may not believe them, but that's a personal trust issue. In terms of the official communication there is nothing to suggest the Conservatives are relaxed about it.

Edit: This is what the Conservative manifesto says: “The price the NHS pays for drugs will not be on the table. The services the NHS provides will not be on the table.”
 
Given your situation I can completely understand why it would be really worrying. I just don't see why it would be in any UK governments interest to allow that to happen. You can understand why the US would ask for it (I'm sure pharmaceutical lobbyists will make sure this issue comes up regularly) but I can't see why the UK would ever acquiesce, indeed just imagine how politically damaging it would be.

I think the farming/food standards and labelling is much more worrying in terms of a trade deal with the US. I imagine this will be much more core to the negotiations.
The UK will acquiesce because it will be done carefully and stealthily and, through slow erosion, it will occur. This has been the pattern for quite some time.
 
Yeah I can agree with that. I think from a personal point of view what concerns me most about these leaks yesterday is the idea that medicine costs could skyrocket. As a partner of someone who suffers from Type 1 diabetes that worries me a lot.

I suspect what would happen is if the US Pharma companies have their way is they can sell their drugs at a higher cost to us. The NHS will remain free at the point of use similar to now, and so the Tories can keep their pledge that people themselves won't be directly paying for it, but then the overall costs of the NHS will increase YoY.

We will then see renewed calls about whether or not the NHS is functional in this day and age given how much it costs. It might be offset in other ways such as increasing prescription costs or attaching prices to certain services.
 
The UK will acquiesce because it will be done carefully and stealthily and, through slow erosion, it will occur. This has been the pattern for quite some time.

Why will it happen? The political argument seems to be that the Conservatives will go against their public pronouncements and manifesto promises to allow American pharmaceutical companies make more profit.

What is the motivation for them to do this? I think you have to believe that senior members of the Conservative party are in hoc to American pharmaceutical companies in order to believe that this will happen. I don't believe this is the case, I think that UK parliamentarians have what they believe to be UK interests at heart.
 
I wonder what the result of the Referendum if it had been:

- Deliver Brexit at the expense of the NHS which becomes privatised
- Stay in the EU, NHS remains untouched

That is ultimately what is going to happen. Sigh.
 
Has the condition of the NHS ever been as bad as it is now? For whatever reason, be it stress on resources due to a great population through longer life spans or immigration, or any other reason?

Isn't the concern that by continuing to under invest, or invest at maintenance levels, that confidence in the NHS denegrates over a period of time which paves the way to privatisation?

My sister had to go private due to waiting times. We don't have insurance and it cost us a fortune. Of course, when you're paying at point of use, the service is fantastic. She shouldn't have had to go private because the investment should have been there from the Conservative government.

I don't believe that there is going to be a hard stop on enormous chunks of our NHS, and I don't think Labour really mean that either, it's just difficult to articulate the message to the general public whilst Bori's screams 'Get Brexit Done' in response to everything. A lot of bad can be done gradually over a governments lifespan and I think it's heading that way. With regards to what you've said, @Honest John, about Labour saying this since the 70's, I think we live in a very different world today, even to that of the Balir era, and we live in an environment where things can accelerate quickly if the blockers aren't put on it.
 
Selling it down the river certainly. The documents are quite clear that the US want what they see as fairer access in selling us drugs at their hiked up prices and the Tories seem relaxed in removing the existing protections preventing this. Off label prescriptions and longer patents another area within the documents.

It seems to me that the Daily Mail crowd can't think beyond the simplistic notion of the entire NHS being up for sale. Open the door to these firms and remove the protections and the costs will make the NHS untenable.

Soon it'll be "Oh the NHS doesn't work, we need a mixed model". That's not even guesswork we've seen many Tory MPs already pushing this so the idea they won't include this to win a trade deal is just fanciful.

That's far different to 'selling it down the river'. Pretty much all the world's best healthcare systems have some kind of mixed model or co-pay element to them. Only the NHS is totally free and the level of care is some way below those others, not because they get more money (many of them dont), but because the NHS a gigantic black hole for money. The model desperately needs updating.
 
I think that UK parliamentarians have what they believe to be UK interests at heart.

Then why are they for a Brexit deal which by the government's own expectations shrink the economy by 5-6% a year.
 
Labour going treetacular
Labour has announced a plan to plant 2 billion trees over the next 20 years. The BBC describes this as “ambitious”. Guido has been doing some sums.
  • This would mean more than 270,000 trees being planted every day for 20 years.
  • Assuming a 7-hour working day that is over 600 trees a minute.
  • That would require 20,000 people planting trees.
  • If each tree requires a planting density of say 10 square metres per tree, that is 10,000 trees per square kilometre, so 27 square kilometres-a-day, that is foresting an area the size of Exeter every day for 20 years.
  • After 20 years some 9.5% of the UK land surface would have to been forested.
 
Why will it happen? The political argument seems to be that the Conservatives will go against their public pronouncements and manifesto promises to allow American pharmaceutical companies make more profit.

What is the motivation for them to do this? I think you have to believe that senior members of the Conservative party are in hoc to American pharmaceutical companies in order to believe that this will happen. I don't believe this is the case, I think that UK parliamentarians have what they believe to be UK interests at heart.
The bolded word in your post is reason alone. The long term support of increasing involvement of private health care companies and service contractors that is long established. The general Conservative ideological dislike of state.
 
Labour going treetacular

Well I can tell you now, living in Shropshire where the forests are getting chopped down at an alarming rate. I will call Tories 'plan' as absolute horse shit.

The maths for their tree requiring 10metres is wrong though. The areas that have been replanted (not many here) tend to have trees planted every 2 metres. They then thin them out once they get a bit older. Thats how the industry works over here. You plant them initially very close together and gradually thin out as they get older. Removing the unhealthy, diseased or damaged along the way.
 
Then why are they for a Brexit deal which by the government's own expectations shrink the economy by 5-6% a year.

I voted for Brexit as I think it is best for the future of the UK, I'm certainly not being paid by any American companies for my belief. Some members of parliament are also voting for Brexit as they believe that the result of the referendum should be implemented, whether or not they would have preferred the vote go the other way.
 
If you gave Joe Bloggs a pen, paper, 5 minutes and that statement they would surely arrive at the picture painted by those figures. So, how the hell is it that Labour have come up with that? Where have they said it, btw, as I've not seen it with my own eyes.

They probably left Richard Burgon in a room on his own for 5 minutes tbf.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.