I didn't see a stamp but Ibra did toss him to the ground off the ball which was prob violent conduct if the officials had seen it. That prob started the back and forth with Mings.
Tyrone Mings stamp on Zlatan | He’s at it again
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I didn't see a stamp but Ibra did toss him to the ground off the ball which was prob violent conduct if the officials had seen it. That prob started the back and forth with Mings.
Yeah, I saw that. But I don't recall any Ibra stamp on Mings which a load on Bluemoon are claiming happened.
the alleged stamp by Z is immediately before he falls over to get trod on
Get your point but a bite is less severe than a stamp to the head.
I dont even disagree with a lot of people - it's mainly just the cries of it being the worst thing ever seen on a football pitch (it isn't - Keane on Haaland is worse, as was Pepe's meltdown), and this idea that Mings is some kind of cold, calculating psycho who pre-planned and thought this all out. He's not - he just didn't give a shit if he landed on him or not (his lack of reaction actually backs this up - he was intending to land on him). He just didn't actively aim for his head, as that would be insane.
Neville didn't think the penalty was the correct call.
So I'm not sure if his opinion adds any weight to the argument.
Agree. I think you've summed it up pretty well.
Seconds before Mings stamps on Zlatan, Zlatan brushes Mings' thigh with his foot. It's not a stamp but there is contact.
Zlatan's right foot at 0:02.
Zlatan's right foot at 0:02.
On MOTD Keown and Murphy were both in agreement that that was a 'stamp'. Then were sceptical than Mings intentionally stood on his head! Unbelievable conclusions to come to.
Weren't you arguing that there was no intent? Refusing to move your foot away from someone's head as you land from a jump is pretty damn indicting. I agree there is a difference between forcefully stamping a head and refusing to move your foot, but intent is intent.
I couldn't believe that. He was right that there wasn't much distance between the ball being played and the ball hitting the arm, but he literally swatted the ball away with a swinging arm. An undeniable motion of the arm towards the ball. As deliberate of a handball you will see.
He then said a 'handball' later on was 'much worse', when a Bournemouth player turned his back and leapt to block a cross, and it hit an arm that was left outstretched. He has no idea where the ball is, and just does that instinctive turn and jump to make the block. The 'Deliberate' part of the rule doesn't seem to matter anymore to pundits. Analysis seems to focus completely on distance between the ball being struck, and the hand/arm contact.
I don't think anyone knows what is and isn't handball anymore.
From a quick skim of things, it seems because it's so obvious Mings just stamped on Ibra and meant it, that people are trying to engineer a way of still saying overall it was Ibra's fault.
Reminds me of Liverpool fans trying to fin reason Suarez wasn't in the wrong.
Reminds me of Liverpool fans trying to fin reason Suarez wasn't in the wrong.
There was no intent to land on his head. There was intent to land on him (atleast by your definition of intent which I don't 100% agree with).
Again, Mings half-heartedly jumped over Ibrahimovic. From Mings point of view - if there happened to be a part of him underneath his foot when he landed then, well, tough shit for him. That is different to outright selecting and aiming for his head pre-jump, which is what a lot of overly-passionate posters on this thread have been claiming since last night.
No-ones said anything approaching it being Ibrahimovich's fault.
Quite a few referring comments about him first stamping on Mings, which is barmy
Yeah agree. He even said the defender made himself as big as possible. As if he's a keeper. That makes it even more a penalty in my mind but for Neville it's some sort of excuse.
He has some strange opinions does Neville but this is the beauty of football. On matters such as these it doesn't matter if you've played for Man Utd or never kicked a ball in your life. You can be equally wrong or right.
There is a lot of talk on social media about this first 'stamp' attempt from Ibrahimovic, so naturally people will mention it. Don't think there's anything in it, mind.
Not for most of us.
it'll be interesting how the FA proceed.
Can you imagine the outrage if Mings is charged and Ibra isn't? Because it was "seen" by the ref.
However, as the majority of the press seems to be on Ibra not Mings, I wonder if they might just let it drift away. If Mings is as injured as he looks it'd be a pointless ban anyway.
I find it very odd.
1) Mings would accidentally stand on a head unless he for some inexplicable reason he lost all control of his own legs.
2) Why he wouldn't stop and apologise after doing it.
1) Mings would accidentally stand on a head unless he for some inexplicable reason he lost all control of his own legs.
2) Why he wouldn't stop and apologise after doing it.
Danny Murphy's gut told him it was accidental, the more he looked at it...
The fecking moron then calls out Zlatan for trying to stamp on Mings just before, inadvertently conceding that Mings' stamp on Zlatan was more than likely instant retaliation.
How could anyone even possibly suggest that that's a stamp from Zlatan? He barely grazes him ffs
Mings did take a look to examine what's underneath him when he leaped. In the landing area the only existing obstacle was Ibra's head and I don't believe Mings was on drugs, gassed or half blind yesterday. It wasn't a new version of dizzy penalty challenge either and footballer jumping from static position isn't some sort of Russian roulette.
I think the FA will have to come down hard on both players to make up for the incompetence of their officials. Kevin Friend and the rest of these "top" referees officiating while hungover after their 3 day stag in Marbella, you couldn't make it up. Where's the accountability?
"Manchester United's Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Bournemouth defender Tyrone Mings have been charged with violent conduct by the Football Association. Both players have until 18:00 GMT on Tuesday to reply to the charge."
Ibra trolling the FA with his 'Mings jumped into my elbow' comment was stupid as it attracted even more attention to his act and will force them to react with moral indignation
Ibrahimovic & Mings charged with violent conduct
FA: "The players were involved in two separate incidents in or around the 44th minute which were not seen by the match officials at the time but caught on video. Furthermore, the FA has submitted a claim that the standard punishment that would otherwise apply for the misconduct committed by the Bournemouth defender is 'clearly insufficient'."
"Off-the-ball incidents which are not seen at the time by the match officials are referred to a panel of three former elite referees. Each referee panel member will review the video footage independently of one another to determine whether they consider it a sending-off offence. For retrospective action to be taken, and an FA charge to follow, the decision of the panel must be unanimous."
"Off-the-ball incidents which are not seen at the time by the match officials are referred to a panel of three former elite referees. Each referee panel member will review the video footage independently of one another to determine whether they consider it a sending-off offence. For retrospective action to be taken, and an FA charge to follow, the decision of the panel must be unanimous."
Does this mean Ibra is out of the FA cup match? Or can an appeal skip this?
I agree that they should both be charged and both will get 3 match bans at the minimum. Mings should get double.
BUT If the ref never saw the incidents, what was the talking to Zlatan and Rooney all about, not wanting to say say the ref is lying, but the ref is lying !
BUT If the ref never saw the incidents, what was the talking to Zlatan and Rooney all about, not wanting to say say the ref is lying, but the ref is lying !
why appeal , he deserved what even ban he gets , we just have to take it.
It depends when the appeal is set for, they have until tomorrow so I imagine it will be wrapped up by Friday so he will miss it.
There will not be an appeal.
It would be dismissed as 'frivolous' and his ban would be extended.
Doesn't make sense. If he didn't see the Zlatan incident, why did he speak directly with him and Rooney?
I will say though, if Mings doesn't get at least double the ban Ibra gets then the FA are idiots, the stamp on the had was way worse.
Probably not, don't these things start directly? Only way is maybe if an appeal will take a long time.
Kevin Friend is an incompetent buffoon, he will lie to save his own skin.
So it's official - one of our best players is going to be banned because of a referee giving a dishonest testimony to the FA.
Time for rashford and Martial to step up
Surely the ref saw it because he spoke to the player at length and warned him? If true, then it shouldn't be acted upon as the referee dealt with it at the time.
Great. That's us scoring feck all for the next 3 games 
Incompetent is far too kind.
He might have not seen it but saw the players complaining, etc etc.
Anyway, I think that the rule was changed this summer, and now a player can be charged for inappropriate conduct even if the ref sees the incident. It was a very stupid rule, anyway.
I think that Ibra will get a 3 match ban, while Mings will be banned for 4-6 matches.