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RedSky said:
Well I obviously meant attainable players. :lol:
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Look, let's just accept that you had this silly notion that all the good players in the world are at the World Cup and only the scrubs are left behind, when in reality there are a host of players playing for clubs around the world who won't be at it, who would get games at United. What makes Subotic any less gettable than Hummels, for example (one of our suggested targets)? What makes Arda Turan any less gettable than whatever winger we're linked with today? He'd get in our side too. What makes Mkhitaryan any less gettable than Kroos or Reus or whoever? He'd improve us as well.

You get the point.
 
The Neviller said:
I didn't say any of them were possible signings, I suggested you were wrong for "questioning the quality" of players not at the World Cup.
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It's not that hard to know what he meant, is it? The point was that from all the World Cup nations, every single player who could improve us significantly is in Brazil. From the nations not at the World Cup, there's usually one or two good players at the most who could improve us. The field is very much narrowed down, that was his point. That's not a "silly notion" at all. Stop being pedantic.
 
RedSky said:
It's not a normal summer though. The World Cup puts a lot of pressure on the club to do business early, unless of course we're after players that aren't involved in the World Cup. Then you have to question the quality of said players in the first place.

The other issue being that Woody, Moyes had bigged up the moves we were going to be making this Summer. So naturally everyones excited and now highly deflated with recent developments. I've been here 8 years and this was the first Window that I really believed we were going to spend big. We have to spend big to plug the gaps in our squad, buying cheap alternatives isn't what we need, we have to go for quality over quantity.

I'm starting to think that the only signing we'll make pre World Cup will be Shaw and that will be it.
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Why? I'm sure all the player's Van Gaal want's will be aware of our interest, it doesn't matter to the club or the manager if we sign them before or after the World Cup, as long as we sign them. Regarding the quality of the player's, I'm going to trust Van Gaal on that one.

Put it this way, I would rather go into the new season with LVG in charge with the team he want's, than Moyes in charge with the signings we want.
 
The Neviller said:
Look, let's just accept that you had this silly notion that all the good players in the world are at the World Cup and only the scrubs are left behind, when in reality there are a host of players playing for clubs around the world who won't be at it, who would get games at United. What makes Subotic any less gettable than Hummels, for example (one of our suggested targets)? What makes Arda Turan any less gettable than whatever winger we're linked with today? He'd get in our side too. What makes Mkhitaryan any less gettable than Kroos or Reus or whoever? He'd improve us as well.

You get the point.
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Well Dortmund won't sell any more of their stars this Summer. They don't need too and with Lewandowski off they can't afford to lose any more of their star players. Yes we could flash a crazy sum of money at one of them and force Dortmunds hands, but will we do that? Atletico won't want to sell half their team that just won La Liga and in the CL Final. Why would Turan even want to leave anyway? :lol:

Some of you need a serious reality check on the situation we're in.
 
RedSky said:
Well Dortmund won't sell any more of their stars this Summer. They don't need too and with Lewandowski off they can't afford to lose any more of their star players. Yes we could flash a crazy sum of money at one of them and force Dortmunds hands, but will we do that? Atletico won't want to sell half their team that just won La Liga and in the CL Final. Why would Turan even want to leave anyway? :lol:

Some of you need a serious reality check on the situation we're in.
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Hold the phone. If Turan or Subotic aren't available to us, then who is? Dortmund won't sell, rule out Reus and Hummels too then. Turan won't want to keave Athletico? Rule out Koke or whatever spanish whizzkid is the next great hope for them.

Players who will significantly improve us are mostly at big clubs already, so if these players at Dortmund and Athletico, who aren't even good enough to be at a World Cup aren't available, then who is? Players at bigger clubs who are good enough to be at a World Cup?
 
Jev said:
It's not that hard to know what he meant, is it? The point was that from all the World Cup nations, every single player who could improve us significantly is in Brazil. From the nations not at the World Cup, there's usually one or two good players at the most who could improve us. The field is very much narrowed down, that was his point. That's not a "silly notion" at all. Stop being pedantic.
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Why don't you go shit in your hat, and read what I actually said?
 
The Neviller said:
Hold the phone. If Turan or Subotic aren't available to us, then who is? Dortmund won't sell, rule out Reus and Hummels too then. Turan won't want to keave Athletico? Rule out Koke or whatever spanish whizzkid is the next great hope for them.

Players who will significantly improve us are mostly at big clubs already, so if these players at Dortmund and Athletico, who aren't even good enough to be at a World Cup aren't available, then who is? Players at bigger clubs who are good enough to be at a World Cup?
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That's my point. None of those players will leave.

Going for Kroos was at least somewhat possible as Bayern have a massive squad of amazing players and with Thiago being signed last summer there was a possibility he could be sold. Realistically our chance to find such players will be to go for the cast offs from Bayern/Madrid/Barcelona. Or the Europa League placed teams. It's why Rakitic is so frustrating, he'd be perfect for us.
 
The Neviller said:
Yeah, let's sign a lot of players that our new manager might not rate and might not want. As we all know, Van Gaal is the type of manager to be told what to do so if he's handed players and told to play them then he'll just accept that and all will be merry. Him not rating them doesn't mean shit, as long as the manager we sacked for being incompetent rated them. As we all know, he managed to pick us some real gems last summer and certainly didn't feck up the whole transfer window from start to finish.

Sure, let's sack our manager and sign everyone he wanted and tell the new man to just deal with it. Don't want Carvalho? Tough, we've just signed him for £38mil, play him. Don't rate Kroos? He was £40mil so you'll just have to deal with it. You won't play him you say, Louis? Tough, we'll pick the team, you just coach them.

Yeah, foisting hunreds of millions of pounds worth of footballers on a manager who didn't want them, doesn't rate them and doesn't play players he doesn't want to play (see Riquelme at Barca) isn't at all an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen.

What world do you people live in? This thread is the definition of absolute insanity.
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Foisting players on coaches is exactly what happens at 90% of the top clubs in the world. And the point that I was trying to make was that the top class additions that we are desperately in need of cannot be bought in the space of a couple of months. They take several months to set up. I don't think any of us would think that Kroos is not a quality player that any team would be glad to have. So if the deal is lined up and ready to go I think it's in the best interests of the club to take that option up.

Yes, insanity is growing in the transfer forums... mostly because the fear of a repeat of last summer is hanging over us. Moyes dithered and cancelled deals that were lined up by Fergie for top class additions. Why the feck would we want to do that again.
 
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The Neviller said:
Hold the phone. If Turan or Subotic aren't available to us, then who is? Dortmund won't sell, rule out Reus and Hummels too then. Turan won't want to keave Athletico? Rule out Koke or whatever spanish whizzkid is the next great hope for them.

Players who will significantly improve us are mostly at big clubs already, so if these players at Dortmund and Athletico, who aren't even good enough to be at a World Cup aren't available, then who is? Players at bigger clubs who are good enough to be at a World Cup?
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Thats why we should have been after the likes of Strootman last summer. We went from the likes of Alcantara or Fabregas to Fellaini.
 
RedSky said:
That's my point. None of those players will leave.

Going for Kroos was at least somewhat possible as Bayern have a massive squad of amazing players and with Thiago being signed last summer there was a possibility he could be sold. Realistically our chance to find such players will be to go for the cast offs from Bayern/Madrid/Barcelona. Or the Europa League placed teams. It's why Rakitic is so frustrating, he'd be perfect for us.
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I don't disagree with Rakitic, I like him, he's a class act.

My whole point was that you can't just rule out players not at the world cup because they aren't of great enough quality. There are plenty of players out there who would improve us, particularly in the areas we need improved in.

I'm genuinely not worried about this summer, I trust Van Gaal to pick up the players he needs to suit his system and style of play, and also improve the players we already have here. We'll play better football, and he'll get more out of the players we already at the club.
 
The Neviller said:
I don't disagree with Rakitic, I like him, he's a class act.

My whole point was that you can't just rule out players not at the world cup because they aren't of great enough quality. There are plenty of players out there who would improve us, particularly in the areas we need improved in.

I'm genuinely not worried about this summer, I trust Van Gaal to pick up the players he needs to suit his system and style of play, and also improve the players we already have here. We'll play better football, and he'll get more out of the players we already at the club.
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Well, I disagree there. Attainable players who would improve our first team are pretty rare imo. Unless of course you think that our first team is awful and any old player could come in and improve it. Which some on this forum seem to believe.

This is why Rakitic not wanting to leave Spain is so frustrating. He's one of those rare players that would improve our First Team and is playing at a club that would probably accept a transfer as long as the fee was right.
 
backofthenet said:
Foisting players on coaches is exactly what happens at 90% of the top clubs in the world. And the point that I was trying to make was that the top class additions that we are desperately in need of cannot be bought in the space of a couple of months. They take several months to set up. I don't think any of us would think that Kroos is not a quality player that any team would be glad to have. So if the deal is lined up and ready to go I think it's in the best interests of the club to take that option up.

Yes, insanity is growing in the transfer forums... mostly because the fear of a repeat of last summer is hanging over us. Moyes dithered and cancelled deals that were lined up by Fergie for top class additions. Why the feck would we want to do that again.
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He doesn't play players he doesn't rate though. He told Riquelme he didn't want to use him at Barca, so that was money wasted on a player he was never going to play and who he shipped out on loan as soon as he could. If he doesn't want Carvalho or Kroos or whoever else we had "lined up" then signing them is pointless. He won't use them and he's stubborn enough to stick to his convictions. You don't buy players a manager doesn't rate if that same manager has previous for sidelining players he doesn't rate.

I'm baffled as to how this point is seemingly missed by people saying we should just sign players whether Van Gaal wants them or not. He won't play them, so what's the point? Is it not more sensible to sign the players he wants who he feels suit his system and style of play? If not, then what was the bloody point in bringing him in in the first place?

I rate Van Gaal, and I trust him to know what he needs to get us back on track. Whacking huge transfer fees on players he doesn't want isn't exactly showing faith in him to do the job he's here to do. It would be a complete waste of money and resources.
 
RedSky said:
Well, I disagree there. Attainable players who would improve our first team are pretty rare imo. Unless of course you think that our first team is awful and any old player could come in and improve it. Which some on this forum seem to believe.
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There are a few areas that aren't difficult to improve us in, to be honest. A semi competent midfielder who hasn't got a microphone head would walk into our first team.
 
The Neviller said:
There are a few areas that aren't difficult to improve us in, to be honest. A semi competent midfielder who hasn't got a microphone head would walk into our first team.
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Yeah, see, I don't buy that argument. Our midfield isn't that terrible. We simply had a terrible manager last season that made our midfielders look like incompetent drones with the pass sideways rule. It does need serious investment in first team players mind you, none of our CM's should be starters next season for me. But all are more than good enough to fill in as Squad players.
 
RedSky said:
Yeah, see, I don't buy that argument. Our midfield isn't that terrible. We simply had a terrible manager last season that made our midfielders look like incompetent drones with the pass sideways rule. It does need serious investment in first team players mind you, none of our CM's should be starters next season for me. But all are more than good enough to fill in as Squad players.
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Hard to argue with that point.
 
At some point we can feel lucky to hear all the linking with so many players when it's just May and not even close to window and all it's official deals & statements. As Wooden Ed said: There may be signings before World Cup, but it doesn't necessarily mean that United will have to show all the cards on the table.

World Cup will reveal a lot more prospects and talents and that may also influence Louie's decision who will fit into the system.
 
With all these "broken" deals from last two days, I just got that feeling that we send an enquiry a week ago, and checked the mailbox yesterday.

Not that I believed we’re getting any World Class players this summer.
 
Borys said:
With all these "broken" deals from last two days, I just got that feeling that we send an enquiry a week ago, and checked the mailbox yesterday.

Not that I believed we’re getting any World Class players this summer.
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Give me strength!
 
Glad the McCathy stuff was removed, average player. Now they can pass on the Ukrainian as well and get to Sanchez.
 
Pjanic, Rakitic, L. Bender, even Moutinho - why aren't we looking at any of these players?
 
RDCR07 said:
That has got be bullshit. No way they offered Schweni and no way we rejected it.
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Pretty sure Ducker(?) said it was after the Bayern tie a few months back. So it's not like we were told in an actual transfer window and then rejected him...
 
TooBias said:
Pjanic, Rakitic, L. Bender, even Moutinho - why aren't we looking at any of these players?
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We might be, no one knows, the journos are just flapping their fingers, it started with mass Muppet options and now they are into the mediocre doom and gloom phase, waiting for something real to actually emerge.
 
TooBias said:
Pjanic, Rakitic, L. Bender, even Moutinho - why aren't we looking at any of these players?
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Pjanic signed a contract literally 10 days ago extending his contract for another 4 years.
Rakitic imo is probably Barcelona bound to replace Cesc.
Bender is a decent shout, I'd have him here, but has said he wants to stay in Germany.
Moutinho I'd be surprised if he left Monaco so soon. Would need a very large bid to take him away considering they spent 22m on him.
 
Transfer window is already grinding on me. Too much on/offs/on/offs/on/offs already. The World Cup won't help as well because I seriously doubt we'll make any signings while it's on.

Thank God we'll have football to watch.
 
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