Turning on Rangnick

[RUCK4444]

Player power is absolute it seems. What a sad state of affairs.

It most certainly is.

At this point I'm questioning if it would have been simpler to just trudge along with Ole until appointing a full time manager. The players have clearly not bought into this temporary manager role and are happy to coast through games, it also seems to have made them entirely miserable (pathetic bunch tbh so I have no sympathy for them) - I've never seen a bunch of players so miserable as well as inept on the pitch.

I've claimed for a long time that the squad is missing real character and on field leadership it's really showing now and the players have more or less downed tools on this season based on these performances.

 

[KingCavani]

I swear we have the god damn dumbest fans.

We didn't hire Rangnick because he was a first rate coach. We hired to him to make preparations for the first rate coach that wasn't available. I wanted Conte and I'm pissed the club didn't act on him but it's obvious they have other candidates in mind - Most likely Poch or ten Hag who were unavailable now. The priority this season isn't winning the Champions League, or getting top four - It's about the interim guy making things easier for the permanent manager who he'll be working with after this season. Any manager walking into this club would inherit a disjointed mess that has came about through years of horrible management from the top down.

Ralf Rangnick's strength has always been directing a club more than managing a team. He's been brought in to sign the right profile of player and piece together a squad that will work long term. I know our reactionary fans and media want instant results but that was never ever happening with this group of players. They have let down multiple managers and I have no doubt Ralf has already alienated some of them with his demands. Good - This season should be about rooting out those who aren't going to buy into the direction the club is going.

We've committed to Ralf. We can't bail on another manager months after doing so. I said when he signed that it might get worse before it got better. Overhauls are rarely pretty.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I swear we have the god damn dumbest fans.

We didn't hire Rangnick because he was a first rate coach. We hired to him to make preparations for the first rate coach that wasn't available. I wanted Conte and I'm pissed the club didn't act on him but it's obvious they have other candidates in mind - Most likely Poch or ten Hag who were unavailable now. The priority this season isn't winning the Champions League, or getting top four - It's about the interim guy making things easier for the permanent manager who he'll be working with after this season. Any manager walking into this club would inherit a disjointed mess that has came about through years of horrible management from the top down.

Ralf Rangnick's strength has always been directing a club more than managing a team. He's been brought in to sign the right profile of player and piece together a squad that will work long term. I know our reactionary fans and media want instant results but that was never ever happening with this group of players. They have let down multiple managers and I have no doubt Ralf has already alienated some of them with his demands. Good - This season should be about rooting out those who aren't going to buy into the direction the club is going.

We've committed to Ralf. We can't bail on another manager months after doing so. I said when he signed that it might get worse before it got better. Overhauls are rarely pretty.

Well said. The last sentence not at lot of people understand, especially with this severely undertrained group.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Last season (Covid season) was an complete anomaly. Inept performances were masked by either big moments or almost unbelievable occurrences of 'good' luck which rescued results and consequently kept Solskjaer in his job.

In terms of this set of players:

Maguire, AWB, Telles, McTominay, Fred and Rashford all range from painfully average to outright poor.

Bruno hasn't played well in an age.

Sancho looks like a bust.

Pogba is on his way out and quite frankly has never been much good anyway.

Ronaldo is showing his age and that's probably the best thing you can say about him right now.

Yes. So I ask again where is the talent you speak of?

Except those players are not painfully average to outright poor, that is your hyperbolic opinion.

Maguire, Rashford are very good. Telles, McTominay and Fred are good players.

Bruno is a top player, Pogba is still here and if he goes we will buy a replacement.

Ronaldo is still a very good player and a reliable goal scorer.

Sancho is a top talent, some poor form does not change that.

We also have Varane, Shaw, VDB, Greenwood, Cavani, Lindelof who are either top players or good talent.

Again, more than enough to make a good team and play better than the current dross.

 

[bondsname]

Never wanted the guy in the first place. We appoint him and everyone pretends to know who he is, calling him the godfather of gegenpressing, like he is a tactical genius who hasn’t managed in a couple of years. I was optimistic but skeptical at the same time, not having to high expectations.

Solskjaer had us playing fast attacking football and got us on a winning streak from theday he arrived, whilst this tactical genius Rangnick has us struggling against bottom tier teams. I hope Rangnick turns it around but won’t really care if he is sacked or something.

 

[Gazautd18]

So we're turning on him now?
Got it!

 

[elnorte]

Except those players are not painfully average to outright poor, that is your hyperbolic opinion.

Maguire, Rashford are very good. Telles, McTominay and Fred are good players.

Bruno is a top player, Pogba is still here and if he goes we will buy a replacement.

Ronaldo is still a very good player and a reliable goal scorer.

Sancho is a top talent, some poor form does not change that.

We also have Varane, Shaw, VDB, Greenwood, Cavani, Lindelof who are either top players or good talent.

Again, more than enough to make a good team and play better than the current dross.

Do you say this kind of thing to people in real life and if so what is their response?

 

[SirScholes]

There is absolutely talent in the team, and The players can be coached to be better. That is the point of a manager.



No, last season was not a freak season. The season before we finished 3rd so that is nonsense.

Varane, DDG, Shaw, Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Lindelof, Maguire probably Fred and VDB could also play.



City were trying to get Fred when we bought him, Matic is past it, but again the manager is the one picking him. If the midfield is lacking then maybe don't play with a two man midfield.



Rashford is a winger, and Greenwood can play there as well. City have played with midfielders as wingers and they keep rotating players around and make it work.

City don't even play with strikers, and Ronaldo was close to joining City before we got him. You think he would be struggling at City, he would certainly get more chances to score the way City play.

Those same players who play brilliantly then go on to struggle for their NT, which shows the difference in coaching for their NT and club teams. We are playing like a shit NT right now, where everyone is a bit clueless and lost, and that is not down to players but the coaching.

You’re blinded by red glasses there is no help for you
Not worth discussing if you think rashford gets in a city team or Fred.

tou can’t compare national teams with club form, too many variables
Rashford is not a winger , he has no natural desire to create, greenwood is not a winger he’s just being shifted out there
How many times when Adama came on did he simply knock it out his feet and cross it?
how many times do city and Liverpool wingers get to the byline and pull it back?
When do our players ever do it? They all get wide then try to cut in and smash it goalwards

Fred matic and Mctom wouldn’t make the wolves midfield, this is the problem.

yes Ronaldo would score shit loads because he’d have unbelievable service from de brunye sterling mahrez foden, players who are far far more intelligent than our bunch. If you can’t see that then your in for a frustrating few seasons until this lot are replaced because there isn’t anyone who can sort them out

 

[NoLogo]

So we're turning on him now?
Got it!

Seems like some players have as well already.

 

[Sheamus]

I understand that Ralf is an interim manager who was brought in to pave the way, but he could quite easily outstay his welcome in that consultancy role, especially if things go from bad to worse, which I’m not ruling out at this point in time. If things turn to shite, I don’t know if I want him hanging around in the background, having an influence over decisions. His foundation might be the wrong one to press forward with, but it’s too early to tell. I’m not going to make any snap judgements, but I was never keen on the terms of his appointment. I mean, if he performs badly as a manager, can they nullify or call it quits on his consultancy? Will they? Will the club do that?

 

[Dominos]

I swear we have the god damn dumbest fans.

We didn't hire Rangnick because he was a first rate coach. We hired to him to make preparations for the first rate coach that wasn't available. I wanted Conte and I'm pissed the club didn't act on him but it's obvious they have other candidates in mind - Most likely Poch or ten Hag who were unavailable now. The priority this season isn't winning the Champions League, or getting top four - It's about the interim guy making things easier for the permanent manager who he'll be working with after this season. Any manager walking into this club would inherit a disjointed mess that has came about through years of horrible management from the top down.

Ralf Rangnick's strength has always been directing a club more than managing a team. He's been brought in to sign the right profile of player and piece together a squad that will work long term. I know our reactionary fans and media want instant results but that was never ever happening with this group of players. They have let down multiple managers and I have no doubt Ralf has already alienated some of them with his demands. Good - This season should be about rooting out those who aren't going to buy into the direction the club is going.

We've committed to Ralf. We can't bail on another manager months after doing so. I said when he signed that it might get worse before it got better. Overhauls are rarely pretty.

The priority was getting top 4. Missing out on top 4 sets us back years and has huge financial consequences. The board obviously took the position that Ralf was as likely to get us top 4 as any other interim who was available and he had the bonus of being experienced in other roles.

If you'd have offered the board guaranteed top 4 under (for example) Valverde or guaranteed 7th place under Rangnick who do you think they'd have appointed?

If Ten Hag comes in the summer, do you think he wants to take over a team who finished 4th or 7th?

I'm not shitting on Rangnick but clearly he was brought in to turn our season around in terms of results and performances so we meet the bare minimum targets i.e. top 4. That objective applied to all 5 candidates on our shortlist who we interviewed.

 

[dinostar77]

Anyone blaming RR, hasnt got a clue about football. He's just arrived. Yes on paper we have a talented squad, but its plainly obvious that some just dont want to listen or put in the hard graft required. If they dont want to do the basics then they get rid of them, no matter who it is.

Whether it is complacency, lack of hunger, desire, drive or psychological who knows, but RR needs to root it out and fix it.

 

[DizeeGorilla20]

We have the worst fanbase in sport.

No league title in 8 years. No trophy in 3 years. Highest paid squad in the league. Forced to hope that City or Chelsea win the league every year so that Liverpool don't win it because we're always out of contention by January. Knocked out of the league cup at home by West Ham in the first round. Losing 5-0 to Liverpool at Old Trafford. Outclassed by City at Old Trafford and outplayed by nearly every team we've played this season. Competing for 4th place against a resurgant Arsenal side and Totenham.

But yes, the fans are ungrateful for not worshiping the ground these superstars walk on. There are so many positives to take joy from and we have a great Champions League tie against one of the most organised teams in the world coming up. I can't understand why there is so much doom and gloom around.

 

[Gehrman]

Where is all this pressing?

 

[MeddlLoide]

You can perhaps educate me, where and when did he underperform with a club in Bundasliga compared to when he over performed? I agree with you on the system by the way. Think he will change that soon.

Beginning of 18/19 looked exactly like this. Creating nothing, no idea what to do with the ball, conceding dumb goals.
Smashed by Dortmund, Draw against Dusseldorf, lucked through in Europa Playoffs with 90th Minute Penalty against Zorya, only after the embarrassing loss against Salzburg he started to ditched his fetish for 4222 playing a Diamond and back-three as well when suitable. But he never was great against these teams just sitting back and even when winning everything against them for the 2nd half of the season a big % of goals was set pieces or just scoring with the first chance so the other team never got to defending.

 

[KingCavani]

The priority was getting top 4. Missing out on top 4 sets us back years and has huge financial consequences. The board obviously took the position that Ralf was as likely to get us top 4 as any other interim who was available and he had the bonus of being experienced in other roles.

If you'd have offered the board guaranteed top 4 under (for example) Valverde or guaranteed 7th place under Rangnick who do you think they'd have appointed?

If Ten Hag comes in the summer, do you think he wants to take over a team who finished 4th or 7th?

I'm not shitting on Rangnick but clearly he was brought in to turn our season around in terms of results and performances so we meet the bare minimum targets i.e. top 4. The longer term planning was just a bonus.

Bullshit.

If top four was the priority then the consultancy role wouldn't exist - To dismiss that as "just a bonus" is laughable. That wouldn't have existed with any other interim choice and was specific to Ralf precisely because we have plans beyond this season. Literally nothing about Ralf's history would suggest he's the best guy for an instant turnaround - The squad is antithetical to how his teams play ffs. If it was win at all costs then they just would have hired Conte.

The club is clearly mindful about changing direction. They're aware the previous structure failed at just about every level. They're aware they're paying more for less than just about any club in world football. They obviously don't want to take the hit but they would definitely take not qualifying this year if it means stabilising the club as a consistent qualifier down the line. They've entrusted Ralf beyond this year. They're not giving up if he doesn't produce top four. Thankfully.

 

[KingCavani]

No league title in 8 years. No trophy in 3 years. Highest paid squad in the league. Forced to hope that City or Chelsea win the league every year so that Liverpool don't win it because we're always out of contention by January. Knocked out of the league cup at home by West Ham in the first round. Losing 5-0 to Liverpool at Old Trafford. Outclassed by City at Old Trafford and outplayed by nearly every team we've played this season. Competing for 4th place against a resurgant Arsenal side and Totenham.

But yes, the fans are ungrateful for not worshiping the ground these superstars walk on. There are so many positives to take joy from and we have a great Champions League tie against one of the most organised teams in the world coming up. I can't understand why there is so much doom and gloom around.

Haha what?

I'm not criticising the doom and gloom at all. I'm criticising the singling out of the manager who's been here for one covid ridden month. No one is more desperate to see this squad purged than I am.

 

[Dominos]

Bullshit.

If top four was the priority then the consultancy role wouldn't exist - To dismiss that as "just a bonus" is laughable. That wouldn't have existed with any other interim choice and was specific to Ralf precisely because we have plans beyond this season. Literally nothing about Ralf's history would suggest he's the best guy for an instant turnaround - The squad is antithetical to how his teams play ffs. If it was win at all costs then they just would have hired Conte.

The club is clearly mindful about changing direction. They're aware the previous structure failed at just about every level. They're aware they're paying more for less than just about any club in world football. They obviously don't want to take the hit but they would definitely take not qualifying this year if it means stabilising the club as a consistent qualifier down the line. They've entrusted Ralf beyond this year. They're not giving up if he doesn't produce top four. Thankfully.

Again. If the board were offered top 4 under Valverde or 7th under Rangnick, who would they have appointed?

They thought Ralf had the credentials to get us top 4, and he was worth keeping around longer term due to his experience. It's really not that complicated. The idea they're not arsed about top 4 is bizarre.

This is not an either/or. The board were not choosing between top 4 vs long term success. They wanted someone to rescue our season and if Ralf can do that and bring us longer term success then he's the best candidate. Whether they made the right choice remains to be seen, it's not like we were turning down elite managers left and right, we had a few decent options who were available and we picked one.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Do you say this kind of thing to people in real life and if so what is their response?

Do you always fail at having a conversation and if so why are you even here wasting people' time.

 

[UnitedSofa]

I'd love to come back to this thread at the end of the season and see where this moaning has/hasn't got us.

 

[VidaRed]

Where is all this pressing?

Rangnick said the players did not press.

Now if the players dont follow instructions then what should he do ? He cant tie them up and hand out 20 lashes.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I am confused what his role is. Maybe not the presence at the touchline we thought he could be. That’s fine.
But where is the revolution, the reset? Still the same players, no transfers in sight, playing a shit formation to accommodate the must-play players.

 

[Sheamus]

Bullshit.

If top four was the priority then the consultancy role wouldn't exist - To dismiss that as "just a bonus" is laughable. That wouldn't have existed with any other interim choice and was specific to Ralf precisely because we have plans beyond this season. Literally nothing about Ralf's history would suggest he's the best guy for an instant turnaround - The squad is antithetical to how his teams play ffs. If it was win at all costs then they just would have hired Conte.

The club is clearly mindful about changing direction. They're aware the previous structure failed at just about every level. They're aware they're paying more for less than just about any club in world football. They obviously don't want to take the hit but they would definitely take not qualifying this year if it means stabilising the club as a consistent qualifier down the line. They've entrusted Ralf beyond this year. They're not giving up if he doesn't produce top four. Thankfully.

It might not be a good thing keeping this guy on for 2 years in a consultancy role if he and his philosophy fails. A long term plan won’t bring success necessarily. Things could go from bad to worse. A set of short term solutions could actually bring success in the long run. It all seems like a gamble either way. I don’t like it one bit. Everything just seems so directionless at the moment. Throwing the chips in with Ralf for 2 and a half years doesn’t sit right with me, but I guess that could be scrapped if they really wanted to do so.

 

[arthurka]

Anyone turning on him now is a bit silly to be honest.

You think? These cnuts have gotten all the managers shipped out before him it's never their fault.

 

[Fooza]

If he doesn't dip in the market asap and improve this midfield by a lot, he is going to a deadman walking. Forget philosophy with this bunch of players, they are not going to change soon.

 

[Coops73]

This isn’t Rangnicks fault, though when I Look at spurs and what Conte has done it’s obviously questionable, but this is and will always be down to the miss management and ownership of our club.

The Glazers have turned the job at Manchester United into a poisoned chalice. If Conte, Guardiola, klopp or the good lord himself took it on now we’d still be struggling.

If Rangnick can turn the on pitch performances around or the actual running and culture of this club around it will not be visible for a long, long time and let’s face it we ain’t got the patience for that.

 

[Firestorm]

its not the manager that’s the problem here …I doubt if even SAF could do anything with this shambles of a squad!

 

[KingCavani]

Again. If the board were offered top 4 under Valverde or 7th under Rangnick, who would they have appointed?

They thought Ralf had the credentials to get us top 4, and he was worth keeping around longer term due to his experience. It's really not that complicated. The idea they're not arsed about top 4 is bizarre.

This is not an either/or. The board were not choosing between top 4 vs long term success. They wanted someone to rescue our season and if Ralf can do that and bring us longer term success then he's the best candidate.

Obviously they want both, I just said that. But your hypothetical question is short sighted. If they felt 7th under Rangnick was better for long term success than 4th under Valverde then I think they'd choose the former.

We need to stop the bleeding at this club. The problems far extend what's happening on the pitch and everyone is aware of it. It will not get better with short term success. We've done that already.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The Glazers have turned the job at Manchester United into a poisoned chalice. If Conte, Guardiola, klopp or the good lord himself took it on now we’d still be struggling.

I think we've got the squad for a 433, maybe replace one or two players here and there. I have no idea where he is going with this 4222

 

[KingCavani]

It might not be a good thing keeping this guy on for 2 years in a consultancy role if he and his philosophy fails. A long term plan won’t bring success necessarily. Things could go from bad to worse. A short term solution could actually bring success in the long run. It all seems like a gamble either way. I don’t like it one bit. Everything just seems so directionless at the moment.

Any plan could go from bad to worse. This is mindless.

The whole point of sticking with him is to get a direction. Whether it turns us around or sinks us further we have to commit. We can't half ass it again like we did with Mourinho.

 

[bond19821982]

This isn’t Rangnicks fault, though when I Look at spurs and what Conte has done it’s obviously questionable, but this is and will always be down to the miss management and ownership of our club.

The Glazers have turned the job at Manchester United into a poisoned chalice. If Conte, Guardiola, klopp or the good lord himself took it on now we’d still be struggling.

If Rangnick can turn the on pitch performances around or the actual running and culture of this club around is not going to be visible for a long, long time and let’s face it we ain’t got the patience for that.

Conte has done feck all. Yes, they are winning but they are no different than us, atleast in the games until now. Well, atleast they don't have the team to perform which can't be said for us.

 

[pocco]

It most certainly is.

At this point I'm questioning if it would have been simpler to just trudge along with Ole until appointing a full time manager. The players have clearly not bought into this temporary manager role and are happy to coast through games, it also seems to have made them entirely miserable (pathetic bunch tbh so I have no sympathy for them) - I've never seen a bunch of players so miserable as well as inept on the pitch.

I've claimed for a long time that the squad is missing real character and on field leadership it's really showing now and the players have more or less downed tools on this season based on these performances.

No that would have been worse. I can stomach this, just about. Watching us get thumped by everyone under Ole was the absolute pits. Add in him smiling after games and the fact this is the result of his 'cultural reboot', it all just got too much. Ole is largely culpable for this team of losers that he's assembled.

 

[Gehrman]

Rangnick said the players did not press.

Now if the players dont follow instructions then what should he do ? He cant tie them up and hand out 20 lashes.

There is no "He can't" in "Winning!"

 

[Oranges038]

It was all Ole and never the players. A lot of these players just are up to playing where Utd want to be, mostly in terms of ability and mentality.

Turns out Jose was right about a lot of them, RR will have to dump up to half the team to get a functioning unit together.

 

[thegregster]

Anyone blaming RR, hasnt got a clue about football. He's just arrived. Yes on paper we have a talented squad, but its plainly obvious that some just dont want to listen or put in the hard graft required. If they dont want to do the basics then they get rid of them, no matter who it is.

Whether it is complacency, lack of hunger, desire, drive or psychological who knows, but RR needs to root it out and fix it.

But when Ole was here all we heard was "it's the managers job to motivate the players".

Hopefully our fanbase will wake up now and see what a rotten squad we have.

 

[Coops73]

Conte has done feck all. Yes, they are winning but they are no different than us, atleast in the games until now. Well, atleast they don't have the team to perform which can't be said for us.

And there’s the crux of the matter

 

[TrueRed79]

Only Manchester Utd could sign Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho and go backwards. In no way turning against Rangnick but we've been absolute gash since he was appointed. These players are some shower of w*nkers.

 

[VidaRed]

But when Ole was here all we heard was "it's the managers job to motivate the players".

Hopefully our fanbase will wake up now and see what a rotten squad we have.

Don't hold your breath, most of the fans will continue to blame the managers while the ignoring the one constant ie players.

 

[RUCK4444]

No that would have been worse. I can stomach this, just about. Watching us get thumped by everyone under Ole was the absolute pits. Add in him smiling after games and the fact this is the result of his 'cultural reboot', it all just got too much. Ole is largely culpable for this team of losers that he's assembled.

I was fully on board with the change of manager this season with those results, I just think that (at this stage) it's done nothing to improve things within the squad.

If anything we've absolutely guaranteed we finish outside of the top 4 because the players seem to hate Ralf and know he's leaving the managers position at the end of the season anyway.

It's a complete mess. So depressing.

 

[Pronewbie]

I swear we have the god damn dumbest fans.

We didn't hire Rangnick because he was a first rate coach. We hired to him to make preparations for the first rate coach that wasn't available. I wanted Conte and I'm pissed the club didn't act on him but it's obvious they have other candidates in mind - Most likely Poch or ten Hag who were unavailable now. The priority this season isn't winning the Champions League, or getting top four - It's about the interim guy making things easier for the permanent manager who he'll be working with after this season. Any manager walking into this club would inherit a disjointed mess that has came about through years of horrible management from the top down.

Ralf Rangnick's strength has always been directing a club more than managing a team. He's been brought in to sign the right profile of player and piece together a squad that will work long term. I know our reactionary fans and media want instant results but that was never ever happening with this group of players. They have let down multiple managers and I have no doubt Ralf has already alienated some of them with his demands. Good - This season should be about rooting out those who aren't going to buy into the direction the club is going.

We've committed to Ralf. We can't bail on another manager months after doing so. I said when he signed that it might get worse before it got better. Overhauls are rarely pretty.

You are right to say that overhauls are rarely pretty. But when you want to enhance and improve the train service, for example, you don’t simply shut everything down for 6 months and give up on your SLAs/KPIs. Customers/Fans have every right to feel aggrieved when that happens and I still expect top 4 from this side.

If what you say is true, alienating a large group of staff so early on without any replacements in or lined up isn’t good management. In football, you have the luxury of doing so during the off-season to minimise disruption. In the meantime, it’s important to keep morale up.

It’s a tough juggling act and that’s where strong leadership and management is vital to mitigate and navigate around the pitfalls of an overhaul.

Rangnick has been appointed as Interim Manager so it’s fair to judge his short term record and play style, otherwise we should have just appointed him as a DOF or consultant instead.