Turkey

Shit coup. People thinking the red flag conspiracy is pure fiction are naive. Not saying it's true but Erdogan is desperate.
 
Wonder how much Erdagon will have to pay to everyone who risked their life by taking to the streets?
 
Adisa said:
Shit coup. People thinking the red flag conspiracy is pure fiction are naive. Not saying it's true but Erdogan is desperate.
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This sort of orchestration is too much. Anything that involves a too large number of people is unlikely to be simulated, too many potential whistle blowers. Really don't know how people can believe this stuff.
 
Arruda said:
This sort of orchestration is too much. Anything that involves a too large number of people is unlikely to be simulated, too many potential whistle blowers. Really don't know how people can believe this stuff.
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Yep, don't see why Erdogan would risk literally having to claim asylum in other countries merely to grab more power. If he wanted to become more dictatorial, I suspect he'd just do so anyway.
 
Adisa said:
Shit coup. People thinking the red flag conspiracy is pure fiction are naive. Not saying it's true but Erdogan is desperate.
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Yeah was amateur and weak as coups go. I had all my VDO streams and commentary feeds all set up and was hoping for a real time digital surround sound weekend spectacular!

Which makes me think this was a covert operation... Mid level officers were hoodwinked into believing this was the real deal, only to have the carpet swept away from under thier feet as soon as they got started.
 
sammsky1 said:
Wonder how much Erdagon will have to pay to everyone who risked their life by taking to the streets?
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A lot of brainwashed fanatics out there as well, no need to pay them. His party is very strong in convincing its followers.
 
Arruda said:
This sort of orchestration is too much. Anything that involves a too large number of people is unlikely to be simulated, too many potential whistle blowers. Really don't know how people can believe this stuff.
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Maybe not orchestrated but it seems possible that he knowingly let it happen because he knew it would not succeed.

Cheesy said:
Yep, don't see why Erdogan would risk literally having to claim asylum in other countries merely to grab more power. If he wanted to become more dictatorial, I suspect he'd just do so anyway.
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There is no actual proof that these things even were at risk.
 
Arruda said:
This sort of orchestration is too much. Anything that involves a too large number of people is unlikely to be simulated, too many potential whistle blowers. Really don't know how people can believe this stuff.
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Not everyone involved has to know though, many could just be told it's a genuine coup. It might be hard for you to believe but it's not so hard to believe this could happen in a country like Turkey.
 
Citizens have over taken tanks and are now driving them around the city!!!
Fun night out for Erdagon boys.
 
Arruda said:
This sort of orchestration is too much. Anything that involves a too large number of people is unlikely to be simulated, too many potential whistle blowers. Really don't know how people can believe this stuff.
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I'm not saying he planned it. But he could have let it happen once he saw it as an opportunity.
 
siiting in local and i see this. absolute madness. have to read more when i wake tomorrow. but for now. madness. crazy week so0 far.
 
Gulenist statement:

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Post by Jaerba from reddit


There was zero realistic 'good' outcome of the coup. Erdogan is a corrupt megalomaniac, but he's really good at winning elections and rallying support.

If the coup 'succeeds' and he's not allowed back in, you've got 45+% of the population that still supports him and another 20+% of the population that, as much as they dislike him, don't want a coup.

It also further damages our reputation in the ME, and I'm not even sure how the NATO clusterfeck would unravel itself.

I honestly don't know what the military was planning as their next move. It was a lose-lose for almost everyone but the AKP.

EDIT: And I'm not saying the AKP was behind it. I'm just saying that it was a huge strategic blunder, that also seemed to be poorly planned on a tactical level.
 
What kind of a bullshit coup leaves government ministers going everywhere making statements?
 
Cheesy said:
Yep, don't see why Erdogan would risk literally having to claim asylum in other countries merely to grab more power. If he wanted to become more dictatorial, I suspect he'd just do so anyway.
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Recent polls showed Erdogan's popularity was plummeting. A failed coup allows him to seize more power without much blowback.
 
So after going out with the military having 'taken control' I come back to Erdogan in a stronger position than before?

Worst night out ever.
 
Javi said:
Maybe not orchestrated but it seems possible that he knowingly let it happen because he knew it would not succeed.
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)_( said:
Not everyone involved has to know though, many could just be told it's a genuine coup. It might be hard for you to believe but it's not so hard to believe this could happen in a country like Turkey.
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Adisa said:
I'm not saying he planned it. But he could have let it happen once he saw it as an opportunity.
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I suppose, I obviously don't know enough about this issue to make very definitive claims, but it still sounds a bit non-sensical to me. A staged coup is a logistical nightmare with plenty of ways to go wrong or cause major problems.

For someone with his position supposedly bordering on dictatorial it sounds like a weird move in terms of potential risks vs benefits, when he could just keep on going on his way of slowly tearing down any threats to his power.
 
Coup 1 - Erdagon 3

Coup started with a blistering start and got the crowd on their feet with some exhilarating wing play and they dominated early possession including some airports and town squares. After sustained pressure, Coup scored and celebrated by sending helicopters into the sky.

However against the run of play, Erdagon inspired his side via a facetime Time Out, sponsored by Apple, and they sneaked an equalizer just before half time.

Erdagon reorganized at half time and convinced the ref to let him have 1000 of his supporters from the stands join him on the pitch. With these extra numbers, he stormed forwards and scored the second goal and landed himself in Istanbul. With a few minutes to go, Coup scored an own goal as their generals bottled it.

It was a damp squib defeat for Coup at the final whistle, some of them claiming the game itself was a red flag. Meanwhile Erdagon players were spotted in the city centre driving tanks in celebration. Erdagon's power has never been stronger.

:nervous::nervous: time for bed I think!
 
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Here's a good piece from December 2013 on the background to the AKP-Gulen conflict:
https://ottomansandzionists.com/2013/12/17/graft-gulen-and-the-future-of-the-akp/

Graft, Gülen, and the Future of the AKP
For months now there has been open war between the AKP and its erstwhile allies in the Gülen movement. The feuding can be traced back to an overzealous Gülenist prosecutor’s attempt to interrogate Turkish intelligence chief Hakan Fidan, and things have spiraled downward from there, with Gülenist media outlets such as Zaman now routinely slamming the prime minister and government officials making shadowy threats about the Gülen movement having to be put down. When the government announced a couple of months ago that it was going to shut down the largely Gülen-run prep schools called dershanes, things began to get really nasty, and despite Tayyip Erdoğan’s eventual partial walk back, in which he announced that nothing would be done about the dershanes until September 2015, this was an effort to strike directly at the Gülenists’ livelihood, which they could not simply ignore. The aftermath of the dershane fight saw all sorts of uncomfortable leaks about the government, including the revelation – that the government did not deny – that back in 2004, the Turkish National Security Council had issued a directive (signed by Erdoğan and Abdullah Gül) that plans should be made to counter and block the Gülen movement. While deputy PM Bülen Arınç and others immediately claimed that the directive was only advisory and was never implemented, the damage was done and the fighting between the top layers of the AKP and the Gülenists was fated to keep on escalating.

That brings us to today, when Turkish police arrested nearly 50 people at Halkbank, including the sons of two cabinet ministers, over corruption allegations in the government tender process. Halkbank has long been reputed to be actively involved in evading U.S. sanction on Iran, and indeed is the bank that processes Turkish payments for Iranian oil and gas, so it is highly likely that this probe is not based on fictitious charges. Nevertheless, it does not escape notice that the Turkish police and judiciary are dominated by Gülenists, and that the Istanbul prosecutor’s office has now arrested a number of people who are prominently connected to the government. Given the timing involved, this does not seem like a mere coincidence. I’ll also note that this fight has been taking place on the margins for awhile (in June 2012 I speculated that a split was coming, and I think that my hunch about who had tapped the PM’s office was likely correct in light of recent events).

Parsing what exactly is going on here is difficult, but I’ll take a stab at it nonetheless. The first big mystery is why Erdoğan decided to take a conflict that had been going along at a barely perceptible simmer and turn it into a huge conflagration with his aborted move against the dershanes. My hunch is that after three national elections in which each subsequent margin of victory was larger than the previous one, Erdoğan decided it was time to flex his muscles and show the Gülenists – who are in many ways natural rivals given their own Islamic, conservative backgrounds and tendencies – who was boss. In doing so, Erdoğan made a mistaken political calculation to rival the mistake he made in his approach to Gezi. If you need proof of this, think about how the conversation a few months ago was about who Erdoğan was going to install as a puppet PM after he assumes the presidency, and now it’s about whether he will be able to control his own party. Because Erdoğan never admits wrongdoing and loathes backing down, this feud was destined to get worse, and my bet is that it will get even worse still. Erdoğan is not going to crawl into a corner and lick his wounds, and I’d bet my last Turkish lira that the fallout from this will get uglier yet. As of this writing, Erdoğan is putting together a board that will have the power to fire prosecutors, which is a direct shot across the bow at the Gülenists.

The second big mystery is what the Gülenists hope to get out of this. There are some who think that the electoral alliance between the AKP and the Gülen movement is now over, but I’m not so quick to declare this marriage completely spent. I don’t see that the Gülenists have anywhere else to go; are socially conservative, religiously pious, pro-growth voters suddenly going to abandon the socially conservative, religiously pious, pro-growth party and vote for CHP? The same CHP that in public and in private denigrates religious voters, or that is so closely associated with the institution – the military – that is the Gülen movement’s biggest foe? I find it very difficult to see a situation in which that is a long term or even sustainable short term political solution for Gülen adherents. I think what is going on here is a struggle to take over the AKP rather than cast it aside now that the Gülenists are feeling personally threatened by past and present government decisions. Based on what I observe, the calculation seems to be to weaken the party ahead of municipal elections in March to the point where some important posts, such as the Istanbul mayoralty, are lost, and make the AKP higher ups realize that they risk losing a great deal if they so blithely cast the Gülenists aside. At the same time, the Gülenists seem to want to do whatever they can to destroy AKP officials or keep them under their thumb, which explains the rumors flying around now about AKP ministers on tape accepting 7 figure bribes and the Halkbank prosecutions. I don’t think the intention here is to break away from the AKP, but to more thoroughly control the AKP.

The great danger in all of this, of course, is that once things get too far out of hand, there is no going back. The Gülen movement may want to show how valuable/powerful they are in an effort to control the party, but the law of unintended consequences always rears its head and may end up blowing up the party instead. Similarly, Erdoğan may want to put the Gülen movement in what he views as its proper place while keeping them in the fold, and instead could prompt his own downfall. There is just no telling where all of this will lead, and neither party seems to want to back down or deescalate in any way. Both the AKP and the Cemaat may have a final aim in mind and think they know how to get there, but the environment right now is amazingly combustible and volatile. Each side is playing a very dangerous game of chicken, and anyone who claims to know precisely how this will end is much wiser than I. But stay tuned, because this is a battle of epic proportions whose chaos has the potential to overwhelm everything else taking place in Turkey.
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Erdogan and followers are MB. It's a creed and a clique. He doesn't need to pay them.
 
Arruda said:
I suppose, I obviously don't know enough about this issue to make very definitive claims, but it still sounds a bit non-sensical to me. A staged coup is a logistical nightmare with plenty of ways to go wrong or cause major problems.

For someone with his position supposedly bordering on dictatorial it sounds like a weird move in terms of potential risks vs benefits, when he could just keep on going on his way of slowly tearing down any threats to his power.
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that's where the problem lies, there is no sense here. This is a man that threw away a peace that had been years in the making because he wanted to gain a majority and is now murdering his own citizens and destroying cities...his ultimate goal is complete power and people like that can and will do crazy things. I'm not saying that he 100% was behind it or that i believe this to be the case but either way if he knew or not if he was behind it or not, if he wins this, which is looking likely at the moment, he will use this to accelerate his power grab and who knows what that will lead to..nothing good I can tell you that!
 
It seems Erdogan is trying to use the media to push the idea that the coup is over and dissuade more military from joining.
 
Raoul said:
Sounds like this is far from over. Conflicting reports flying all over the place.
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Rumours and conflicting reports everywhere.

Senior military officials have allegedly been taken hostage and the president is officially back on tv now.
 
I'm fairly sure that the BBC reported the win of each sides in the last 15mn.
 
barros said:
So it's over? AP said was a failed coup
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yep. it is over. Erdogan already gave a speech back in the City. He blamed Gülen and a few guys in the military. He´ll clamp down on any opposition with full force and he´ll have the mandate to do so. Anyone who´ll dare to criticise him in the future will live a very dangerous life. If the past is any indication, it is time to leave turkey, if you disagree with him.

edit: He also said, that his hotel, where he stayed was bombed soon after he left it. Maybe that part went wrong? I somehow doubt it, but it could be an explanation why this coup was so weak.
 
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