Ahh good stuff, thanks. I’ll watch it later, I thought it was going to be partisan moaning about obstructionism.
Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Ahh good stuff, thanks. I’ll watch it later, I thought it was going to be partisan moaning about obstructionism.
The Christie - Kushner handbags has reemerged.
He doesn't really give any details though about what would actually happen. So, what would happen - what does he mean by "constitutional crisis"?
It means the FBI is by statute required to pursue all potential federal crimes, so if Trump fired Mueller, the investigation itself wouldn't go away; and Trump would be technically overseeing his own investigation which can't happen.
Right, but what would it mean in practice? What could someone like Warner and those who agree with him actually do about it? He didn't go into any details.
He alone can't do anything about it, but the Congress can impeach him - yes, even if its a GOP Congress. And if they don't it would result in a massive wave election in 2018 where the Dems would certainly impeach him.
So nothing really that might convince Trump it's not worth the risk, since allowing the investigation to continue unimpeded will most probably yield far worse consequences for him.
He knows its not worth the risk because there is wide spread sentiment among Republicans that he will be impeached if he tries it. Trump would also effectively flush away any legislative cooperation to advance future legislation if he is viewed as a lame duck who has obstructed justice.
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Aye that’s what I’ve been saying for a while (minus the Trump leading his own investigation bit). In fact I said as much on Reddit last week - that firing Mueller doesn’t mean all his work is suddenly purged and his findings irradiated and that there’s probably enough evidence filed to bring the lot down now - it got up to around 600 upvotes within an hour and when I replied to someone a few hours later I noticed it had about 8 upvotes. Just enough to neutralise it and see that it sat somewhere near the end of the thread, funnily enough
What's your view on this @Raoul? I mean, Americans must now be contemplating some very odd and alien scenarios in which Trump conducts outrageous actions and manages to divert his government away from the consequences? He seems from a distance like a shuffling pantomime villian with some random but effective super powers. How weird should we be expecting?
I think 2018 is going to be the year when the water breaks in all things Trump/Russia and the Mueller investigation. Mueller is just getting too close to the truth and Trump won't be able to tolerate him snooping around on the Trump org's finances or possible indictment of Kushner. At that point, Trump will be forced to pardon Kushner and/or attempt to fire Mueller; after which we will be in complete meltdown as there will be a bipartisan tsunami of support for an impeachment. Basically, if you thought 2017 was interesting, it won't hold a candle to 2018. End state will either be impeachment or some sort of constitutional crisis where Trump and a small cabal of likeminded GOP congressional supporters will attempt to get rid of the investigation - all in the lead up to the mid terms!
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I think you are giving the GOP way too much credit. For them to even consider impeachment let alone agree to a vote, Trump will be need to be charged with some outrageous shit. They have the thickest of skins these fecking GOP reps, nothing get through to them.
In the present that may be true, but the entire playing field of what the GOP are willing to do with be radically altered if Trump fires Rosenstein, then emplaces an agreeable sycophant in his place to fire Mueller. That would be a clear obstruction of justice and would result in impeachment, especially as its a mid term year and the GOP are panicked about getting swept out of office. Also, add to this the probability that Ryan is likely retiring so he wouldn't be held back since impeachment proceedings have to start in the house.
He will come up with distractions as he has done time and time again when it comes time to fire Mueller and the GOP will look the other way when it happens just like how they have done with the rest of the shit he has pulled so far. Come on man, he has literally been accused of every bad thing a person can do and still got voted to the highest office.
Sounds like you have been brainwashed by gradual normalization. That's not reality.
Trump is probably not going to fire Mueller this year. At best, Mueller can snag some higher up people in Trump campaign but will take him time. In the meantime, we'll know the mid term election results which will be the crucial factor here. In my opinion, Paul Ryan's retirement is a nonfactor here, he won't do anything against a sitting Republican president.
The good news is that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They're going to get a blow back from swing voters and some moderate Republicans if they fail to control Trump but if they impeach him they're going to lose a lot of the far right.
Do we really believe Ryan would step away? Wouldn't retiring be a great way to put distance between himself and the Trump administration if this shitstorm goes down as you predict, and as it looks more and more likely it will go down that way? All so he can be a white hat to ride in to save the day and pick up the pieces of the GOP?
If Ryan intends on retiring (imo) he would no longer be hamstrung to play nice with Trump over future legislation issues and could conceivably not block a house effort to start impeachment proceedings and conversely Trump couldn't do anything to harm Ryan by supporting his congressional opponent (as he did last year) if Ryan speaks out against Trump.
I reckon Trump will end up firing the poisonous little house elf and replacing him with a Trump psychophant.
Plot twist though... true to shambolic form, it will transpire that it’s someone already in Mueller’s crosshairs and a briefing/leak will see him having to recuse himself too
I actually think the whole Moore business was a Bannon play to get Sessions out of that position.
Trump has a few crazy moves to pull yet I think. God knows what he is going to do.
I reckon Trump will end up firing the poisonous little house elf and replacing him with a Trump psychophant.
Plot twist though... true to shambolic form, it will transpire that it’s someone already in Mueller’s crosshairs and a briefing/leak will see him having to recuse himself too
I actually think the whole Moore business was a Bannon play to get Sessions out of that position.
That would be the least dirty of all options, although it would entail the next AG having to go through Senate approval where he/she would no doubt be forced to promise not to interfere with the Mueller investigation.
I mean Trump is just going to pardon everyone Meuller indicts.
Google “state level charges”
I know we had this conversation before. But thats the next step. Meuller is focusing on federal charges cause they are more serious but he will let it play out and just pardon them on the federal level. By the time they get to the state level, it will be another 12-14 months.
Well gee I hope Mueller thinks of that.
Breaking now
Here's a thread breaking that down further.
Expect Mueller is concentrating on making the case against the relevant people as comprehensive as possible. Leaks, speculation and innuendo are inevitable but other than the indictments on record we've had nothing. I suspect that Trump's team were hoping this would be played out in the media where, as shown in the 2016 election, he can use spin, deflection and unfounded accusations to his advantage. He has tried but when he calls the investigation 'phoney' or attacks the FBI he doesn't get a response that he can then escalate and turn it into a public slanging match that he knows he won't lose.
Instead what he's faced with is silence and indictments, leaving Trump himself shouting into the wind at his dwindling support. You can't have a public ruckus by yourself. I think Mueller/FBI observed how team Trump works the media in circumstances where he is under pressure and they've pretty much starved them of that oxygen.
Instead what he's faced with is silence and indictments, leaving Trump himself shouting into the wind at his dwindling support. You can't have a public ruckus by yourself. I think Mueller/FBI observed how team Trump works the media in circumstances where he is under pressure and they've pretty much starved them of that oxygen.
Bang on.
Let's hope so.
Agreed. Trump would've loved more leaks out of the Mueller camp so he could've launched a propaganda campaign to discredit whatever the leaks revealed. But the fact that there have been none have made Trump and his cabal of propagandist charlatans look at other means of discrediting things by way of for instance, Andy McCabe, Strock, the notion that Muelller hired people who supported Hillary etc. The desperation is palpable.
It is, but it's alarming that over the last week or two they finally seem to be getting some political traction towards openly attacking Mueller and the FBI. They've been trying for months of course, but it's starting to feel like it might finally be working. I'm expecting the GOP to go for it full blooded in the new year.
I can't see the fuss
If there is nothing proveable trump will survive
If there is something peoveable that can be traced to trump / Putin then Meuller will end up taking his coffee with an extra shot of polonium... case closed
If there is nothing proveable trump will survive
If there is something peoveable that can be traced to trump / Putin then Meuller will end up taking his coffee with an extra shot of polonium... case closed
Everything is provable.