Transgender rights discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
How do you guys deal with casual transphobia in your families?
I try to push back a bit but people are so entrenched in stances like "men are men, women are women etc". I don't want to really stop talking to people and causing rifts but I don't want to be part of conversations that bash trans people. I'm not even sure where to start, my own views on trans people became for more accepting through watching trans youtubers and meeting trans people as well as deciding I'd prefer not to hate people.
Views on race have largely improved in my family as different people have married and had kids of different ethnicities yet a lot of the family are still stuck in a transphobic and to a lesser extent homophobic rutt.
It's far too often that I see transgender people/identity be the butt of jokes. Them existing is often a point of derision for some people.
I try to push back a bit but people are so entrenched in stances like "men are men, women are women etc". I don't want to really stop talking to people and causing rifts but I don't want to be part of conversations that bash trans people. I'm not even sure where to start, my own views on trans people became for more accepting through watching trans youtubers and meeting trans people as well as deciding I'd prefer not to hate people.
Views on race have largely improved in my family as different people have married and had kids of different ethnicities yet a lot of the family are still stuck in a transphobic and to a lesser extent homophobic rutt.
It's far too often that I see transgender people/identity be the butt of jokes. Them existing is often a point of derision for some people.
It’s hard. Not family but my very best and oldest, most loved and trusted mate really struggles with it. And as a result I struggle with him. We’ve just reached a point where we can’t / don’t talk about it because we just wind each other up.
He used to be, a long time ago now, a bit homophonic too, not to the point of hating it but very comfortable joking about it.
Thankfully that has softened which is a good thing seeing as my own son is gay. I hope that over time I can help him realise it’s just people being people.
I don’t really think you can. I’ve had this with my own family, and my partners family and as you say they’re so entrenched in their views that it’s basically a big waste of time. I usually just change the subject because it’s easier just to avoid the whole process.
My parents dont really have views on these topics (people are people they dont care) but i have heard people in their circles sat some outlandish things.
Youd be better changing the subject but what I actually find they say and do if they meet a gay/trans/diff race person are entirely different. Usually, they judge the person on their own merits.
Youd be better changing the subject but what I actually find they say and do if they meet a gay/trans/diff race person are entirely different. Usually, they judge the person on their own merits.
Generally when I encounter someone who making negative comments I ask them why they care so much about other people's business?
They don't usually have a compelling answer.
They don't usually have a compelling answer.
Murdered for flying a rainbow flag. Excellent.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ia-shop-owner-shot-dead-over-lgbtq-pride-flag
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ia-shop-owner-shot-dead-over-lgbtq-pride-flag
Because of course...
TERF island
People are feckin idiots and so easily manipulated
Edit - From The Guardian
Seems to be another generational divide in the UK.
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Scott Moe, from Saskatchewan, has to be the dumbest cnut of a premier in Canada if there was no Danielle Smith around.
Saskatchewan premier vows to veto ruling on school pronoun policy (BBC)
Moe pushed forward a policy that bars teachers from using the preferred pronouns and genders of students under 16 without their parental consent. That was before the highest court in the province blocked that policy.
Saskatchewan premier vows to veto ruling on school pronoun policy (BBC)
Moe pushed forward a policy that bars teachers from using the preferred pronouns and genders of students under 16 without their parental consent. That was before the highest court in the province blocked that policy.
How long does it take for a proposal to become a law?
Moe has been a very good premier for Saskatchewan. He's had a rather positive approval rating for his entire tenure.
That's only because Saskatchewan is full of racists, bigots and homophobes/transphobes. He's a shitty Premier from a stupid party and Saskatchewan is a dump these days. He's no Roy fecking Romanow, that's for sure.
Sorry, I just spent six weeks there.
My deepest condolences
But fair enough, and I won't try to convince you that your experience wasn't what you describe. I will say that I lived in Saskatoon from age 3 - 30 (excepting an exchange year, and one year in Edmonton) and it's become about 1000x more multicultural and cosmopolitan over my time. I was the only non-white kid in most of my classes growing up. A couple years ago I did some work in elementary schools and we were playing cricket at recess with the massive South Asian population that exists now. Schools had the equipment and everything.
You won't find that in BC, where I'm at now, despite there being a huge Punjabi population here. I'd consider moving back to SK if it wasn't so damn boring and ugly.
I'll give you the multicultural aspect. I grew up there as well (age 1 - 25) and there are definitely many more south Asian, Filipino and African residents these days but as a person with some indigenous ancestry, I'm confident in saying that a majority of the white residents hold archaic beliefs about race and sexuality and the Saskatchewan party holds those, too. Hopefully some of these new residents will stick around there and foster change through participation in government.
Yeah, I won't put up much fight on Harper's "old stock Canadians" in Saskatchewan being behind the times. But I will say that I find anti-Indigenous sentiment in the Okanagan worse than it is in Saskatchewan. Some of the shit people say here
Yeah, I won't put up much fight on Harper's "old stock Canadians" in Saskatchewan being behind the times. But I will say that I find anti-Indigenous sentiment in the Okanagan worse than it is in Saskatchewan. Some of the shit people say here
To be fair, it's pretty bad everywhere. At least the new immigrants tend to have respect and admiration for the indigenous people and culture.
People who are against trans rights or are busy trying to get laws passed concerning trans people, how many trans people have they actually talked with?
I have a friend who was born male and transitioned to female a decade ago, so she's female, not trans. According to her this isn't something that someone wakes up one day and decides to do, it's something that is clear and apparent to the person from their earliest memories. So people who know they are in the wrong body can't act to change anything until well into adulthood, according to many states laws now.
It's a strange topic if it doesn't affect you, or your family, or people you know, but once you do know someone in that community, it's really not that complicated. Those kids are suffering and they are telling their parents what they need - why not listen to them? Does anyone think any of those parents are intentionally pushing their kids into this? It's terrifying. A couple friends of mine had this very thing happen, and in addition to trying to help their kids not feel suicidal, and trying to get their peers to accept them, they are also now fighting with people who feel compelled to tell them what to do for their kids' health and sanity.
I just wish people would let the people it affects make the decisions they need to make without harassment and judgment.
I have a friend who was born male and transitioned to female a decade ago, so she's female, not trans. According to her this isn't something that someone wakes up one day and decides to do, it's something that is clear and apparent to the person from their earliest memories. So people who know they are in the wrong body can't act to change anything until well into adulthood, according to many states laws now.
It's a strange topic if it doesn't affect you, or your family, or people you know, but once you do know someone in that community, it's really not that complicated. Those kids are suffering and they are telling their parents what they need - why not listen to them? Does anyone think any of those parents are intentionally pushing their kids into this? It's terrifying. A couple friends of mine had this very thing happen, and in addition to trying to help their kids not feel suicidal, and trying to get their peers to accept them, they are also now fighting with people who feel compelled to tell them what to do for their kids' health and sanity.
I just wish people would let the people it affects make the decisions they need to make without harassment and judgment.
I feel like I agree with half of what you say and disagree with the other. I wouldn't say I am pro or anti trans rights, in so much that I agree that a person should be able to live how they wish within the rules of society. But I perhaps don't extend that to them having the right to tell others how to think.
I would never be rude to a trans person intentionally and would do my best to address them how they wish. I wouldn't however accept the demand that they are treated as the opposite sex in situations where biology matters (medical, sport, changing rooms, prisons etc). It's sad that in having what I would call a balanced opinion, would actually be seen as offensive by many.
Probably my most 'controversial' opinion in the context of your post is that I think it should be illegal for anyone who isn't an adult to have any kind of medical intervention to change gender, be is surgical or via medication.
It might make it clearer if I define terms. A trans person (in my definition) is switching from whatever their original gender was, to the other gender. It's not being a transvestite, and it's not someone who is gay and acting butch or femme or whatever. The person is taking steps (medication, surgery) to become the other gender.
When it comes to sport (I might say high school is exempt), they should do an X-Y chromosome test. It doesn't matter what gender you are or were, it only matters if you have the X or Y signifier. This is for sport at elite level (college, Olympics, pro).
Changing rooms if done correctly are private, so it shouldn't matter. Maybe a rethink on how changing rooms are done is in order.
Prison is a different animal. If you put a biological female in a general pop of men, even if they identified as male, they are not going to be safe (is my guess). I don't know how they figure this one out.
For the last point, why should young people give up their entire childhood and young years, living in the wrong body? Especially if they can begin the transition to the other gender in time to experience the joys of being a teenager in the right body.
Remember, I have several friends whose kids are going through this right now, and because they waited until they were 18 (in two of the cases) it has been a real nightmare. Another is only 13 and is doing better. Anyone who is interested should try and find some examples of people who have transitioned talking about how it would have changed their lives if they could have done it as a teen. (I don't have any links).
But I will admit that before I personally knew these kids and their parents, I didn't understand it. I thought it was a mental health problem. Once you talk with these people and realize how much happier they are now, and how miserable they were, because (in their view) they were imprisoned in the wrong body their entire lives. Imagine what that must be like. One of my friends who fully transitioned (male to female) still only dates girls. It's not even a sex thing, it's an identity thing.
They weren’t born a man; they were born a baby boy. It all depends on when they went through the transition. If it was after puberty, yes, they would enjoy extra muscle mass, larger frames, etc. if they transitioned before puberty, the advantages would probably disappear. That swimmer who did it after already competing at collegiate level is probably an outlier. The point is, if people were given the therapy and surgeries they needed as youth, instead of fighting and having to wait until their adult years, this would be rare.
i really don’t know what specific things or laws you’re referring to, but the laws in the US are definitely transphobic and anti-trans.
You can't let children transition! That's lunacy. They're children. They don't know anything! There's a couple of years at most between kids stopping believing in Santa, and kids starting puberty....and they should be exposed to concepts like picking gender?! Come on, this is just daft. That's bad parenting.
I’m talking teenage years.
Advocating for surgery pre-puberty? That’s crazy!! Offer counselling and support sure, but a child should not be given that responsibility when they lack the emotional maturity to make the decision.
Even in mid teens - high school age is too young!
The hormone replacement starts at 14, early puberty. Surgeries are a bit later, 16 or 17. I think you need to find some first hand accounts, because it will surprise you. They are as sure of their gender as you are. It’s not like experimenting with being gay or whatever.
https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb
But teenagers are going through puberty already... And teenagers are still immature children. They can't make decisions either.
I’m guessing you don’t have kids? Puberty can start anywhere between 9 and like 15, but 13-14 is most common. You should listen to them Instead of telling them what you think they should do. If it’s not you, your family, or your friends, be grateful because it’s rough. If you do meet someone who it affects directly, just listen.