Racist.
Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
Let me tell you what is transphobic, I'm nowhere near the liberal end of trans people, I prefer to be more stealth than anything else. I reached out to the TERFs such as Maya Forstater, I even publicly backed Rowling and you want to know how they repaid me?
They told me that my boyfriend must love fecking a gaping oozing wound, they told me that I had mental health issues, they called me a Man knowing how much it would kill me inside and asked if I'd considered conversion therapy.
The left and right of this debate are as bad as each other but don't for a minute think that the people Rowling follows aren't extremely transphobic, they want nothing more than trans people to be subjected to labotomies. They are driven by misandry, they hate trans Women because they were born Male and they hate trans Men because they see them as traitors.
This is the crux of the thread, not bullshit about calling them TERFs or some other shite, the more offensive they find it the more I'll call it them. I saw the light, I'm quite good friends with trans Women who were in the same boat, reached out once only to be grossly attacked.
They can get fecked and anyone who comes in here touting their TERFy bollocks can get fecked too.
They told me that my boyfriend must love fecking a gaping oozing wound, they told me that I had mental health issues, they called me a Man knowing how much it would kill me inside and asked if I'd considered conversion therapy.
The left and right of this debate are as bad as each other but don't for a minute think that the people Rowling follows aren't extremely transphobic, they want nothing more than trans people to be subjected to labotomies. They are driven by misandry, they hate trans Women because they were born Male and they hate trans Men because they see them as traitors.
This is the crux of the thread, not bullshit about calling them TERFs or some other shite, the more offensive they find it the more I'll call it them. I saw the light, I'm quite good friends with trans Women who were in the same boat, reached out once only to be grossly attacked.
They can get fecked and anyone who comes in here touting their TERFy bollocks can get fecked too.
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That's horrible, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Unfortunately, some people can't be reasoned with because they are so blinded by hate.
It's remarkable and sad that some people can't just live and let others try to find happiness and comfort in their own skin.
...I know.
I actually have two posters, one of Linehan and one of Hitler. I spent most days staring at them.
What odd post.
Maya Forstater said that too you?
No she didn't, mutuals of hers and Rowlings did.
No more odd than you claiming sexuality is a choice.
So you literally came in to troll then, thought so.
Right, so J.K Rowling and Maya Forstater didn't say those things as you intimated but some other people did? OK.
I'm sorry people on the internet said horrible things to you, I hope you reported anyone who was discriminatory or threatened you or made you feel upset. I certainly don't think you should be subjected to such horrible things online.
I wish you well.
I didn't. You can't read. I believe parts of this debate on cis men, not dating the, ends up with people trying to justify sexuality is a choice, which of course, it is not.
Feck off with that bullshit. Troll in your mind is ANYONE who disagrees with you. That's it.
Looks like a troll, smells like a troll, says sexuality is a choice but doesn't really believe that just to flame like a troll.
Text book troll.
Hard to see any other purpose for rocking up here to blanket label all (male) posters in this thread as sexist for criticising Rowling. You certainly weren't looking to have a debate.
Show me where I said sexuality is a choice. Show me.
I didn't label all male posters sexist. I echoed the sentiment of women and feminists that when they speak up, they're usually shouted down by......men.
This is what happens in echo chambers, you lose the ability to read and think.
No you used a classic TERF trope which attempts to shut down men from speaking up for trans Women, yet yourself not being a woman, trans or otherwise, gets to have a say? Nah, if you believe that trope then get out.
Okay, but how is that relevant to Rowling being criticised for peddling in harmful stereotypes, misinformation and scaremongering against trans women?
What trope? That sometimes women are shut down by a patriarchal society? Is that a trope? Or is that an observation?
And in what way does that stop men speaking up for transwomen?
Hateful Women are quite rightly shutdown. The use of misogyny against guys speaking out against clear wrong doings, it's a way to shut them down and not give them a chance to speak up because, misogyny! ad nauseam...
Do you not think trans Women gave misogyny too? Do you think you're not being a misogynist now?
Because the conversation and topic is about a woman who, when she raised some concerns rooted in her lived experience that she believes that women's spaces should be protected.
I'd be interested to hear what misinformation or scaremongering she is peddling?
That all transwomen are predators? I haven't seen her say that, perhaps I missed that, do you have a link?
I'm sorry Rudie, sincerely, I don't understand your point.
Trans Women, you're missing the space there fella, might want to fill it with some from between your ears.
I didn't think you would somehow...
You're saying when people say "misogyny!" It's to shut down criticism that is given to gender critical women?
My apologies, I'll make sure the correct phrase is used. Is TW shorthand OK?
I'm saying that it's a tactic used by TERFS to shutdown discussions where a guy tries to stick up for trans women. Yes.
Let's agree to disagree agreeably.
Vigorous debate is fine but please keep it reasonable.
Ok I get that. I agree.
I think the same thing happens with pretty much any group to an extent.
Online discussion is inherently inflammatory and toxic so two sides instantly argue in bad faith.
I can imagine when you have legitimate critiques of someone on the gender critical side, that being shouted down that you're a misogynist must be annoying.
I think I've been extremely reasonable, maybe trolls shouldn't be allowed to run riot on the forums... Ban me, please, I wanted out of here weeks ago already.
Look, I get that you are passionate about this but we do have some rules of debate here. I think you are educating those of us (me in particular) who aren't that familiar with the ins and outs of this issue. But just try to do it without setting off an exchange where we have to do some modding.
Please keep posting.
"Concerns", yes. People like to talk about risk without a true understanding of it. As someone who works in risk management I can help clarify things and show why this argument is wrong and hurtful here.
There are risks in all walks of life. People are pretty good at identifying them and considering the impacts. What they're not good at doing, because they aren't aware of this aspect of risk management, is determining likelihood and this is the biggest driver of how a risk is managed.
The risk usually brought up in this debate is a cis male pretends to be a trans woman and invades female only safe spaces like bathrooms and change rooms. It's definitely a potential risk, no one would dispute that. We can probably all agree that the impact has the potential to be high. But if you're bringing this risk and its impact to the table you need to back it up with data that helps prove the likelihood.
My perspective is that this risk has a very low likelihood of occurring and that's why proponents of it avoid bringing supporting data into the discussion. Any data they could bring would highlight the extremely low likelihood of this actually occurring. When you have a risk with low likelihood, even a high impact can result in it being a low risk because likelihood is the biggest driver in making a risk based decision.
Risks rated as low are usually something that you accept/retain and deal with on a case by case basis. There's little to worry about because the risk event is probably not going to occur. With this in mind we are correct in challenging this argument as it is not fact based, i.e. you cannot verify it beyond some anecdotal claims. The appeals in the argument are to emotion and that's usually a great indicator of bias.
Couple of examples: She presents cherry picked data about the number of people reporting to have outgrown gender dysphoria, and doesn't actually give a source for it. She also talks about the (claimed) growing number that seem to detransition as proof that all of this has gotten out of hand, neglecting to mention that it's an increase from minuscule to slightly less minuscule, or that detransitioning is not the same as regret. Some do it temporarily, some do it because they literally can't afford to transition, some do it because they were rejected by the people around them after coming out as trans. Nah, gotta frame it as "more and more people are regretting their choice!" Speaking generally, she tends to present the edge cases as the average.
As for scaremongering, she leans on the old chestnut "if we open up public restrooms to trans women, men will come too!" The suggestion being that men will claim to identify as women to gain access to women's spaces, the end result of which will almost certainly be that trans women who don't pass well enough are accused of being perverts and sickos.
Difficult post to read and I hope you're not the letting the bastards grind you down too much!
You’re not trying that hard, I guess.
Trans women are one of the most vulnerable groups to violence, sexual or otherwise. But sure, let’s pretend that they are predatory men who claim to be women, and wrote a book with that very trope, that’s not TERF-y and transphobic at all.
Using weasel words like this doesn't actually help your I'm not a troll case.
This is more a wider point about Internet etiquette in general, but some rules are just bad. Civility stuff is an example. A user gets away with blatant trolling and goading because no bad words are used, and someone who is reacting to that behaviour is reprimanded because they (very understandably given the specifics involved, as you've rightfully acknowledged) react "badly". If you can't allow the reaction then it is what it is, but then the provocation should in my opinion be against the rules as well even if it isn't overtly uncivil.
I'm not sure how some people live with themselves. Doesn't it bother them that they are truly terrible human beings? Apparently not.
Are you ok? I can only vaguely imagine the potential hurt such bile can cause.
