No but you have a bit of a reputation.
Transgender Athletes
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No but you have a bit of a reputation.
There it is. Or was that autocorrect too?
Is your autocorrect prejudiced against a southern white male? Maybe your bullshit transphobic accusations were just autocorrect too? Damn man. You need to get that thing under control.
You are right it wasn't what I was getting at. I get your position, even understand it but don't necessarily agree with how you are arguing it.
For me there is clear phobia and genuine and honest conversation. This in itself for me is never black or white.
That said I've never liked things to be imposed on us. Let's just say the answer to your question was no, as in transgender women are not real women. The discussion would be why a person thinks that, not shouting transphobic.
I am from south Asia. I grew up around the "khusra" community. This was almost 50 years ago. This community of men transitioning to women always referred to themselves as she/her etc but always acknowledged they were khusra and differentiated themselves from "real women". I obviously grew up with that mindset myself. But I was always respectful and even called them "masi", which is auntie, as a kid. Yet never thought of them as "real women" basically because they didn't and from what I know still don't.
In today's world the "real women" bit makes me transphobic according to some arguments on here. Which is unfair and wrong imo.
Well that is a shame however I can't help but feel that you have been that spoiling's major contributor, by annoying people to an extreme they've spoken their mind and I am aware because they have told me that their posts needed no reporting.
I couldn't care less about any of your accusations, far less this new one of Ableism, for context I myself am disabled but haven't felt the need to have ever tried to use it in a discussion to prove my point, as I said, we all have problems, we don't all feel the need to blab to strangers what they are.
Just because you haven't been successful in your attempts to bully me with unfound accusations does not mean that I have changed in any regard but it's no skin off my nose what you do or don't think of me, we are all our own people, we don't all wish to bend every different way with the prevailing wind.
Is this cultural group similar to the fa’afafine of the Pacific Islands?
Someone literally used an ableist insult against me and you talked about it without criticising it in the slightest, reverting to criticising me for sharing that I am disabled. I'm not making any of this up.
You got upset at me for a comment about coming second place not being so bad.
Which is worse?
Yes, I hate southern white males despite being a white male who lives in the south.
Well, you do have a reputation…
Why is it unfair and wrong? You can be transphobic unintentionally and it doesn't automatically make you a bad person. I wish people were more comfortable with these words and less defensive. In here they seem more comfortable with actual bigotry directed personally at me than accusations of such.
I haven't gotten upset at any time during this thread ta.
You literally attempted to use your own health history as 'context' to continue to argue that children should find out something about their sports activities. Other posters were free to make of that what they did. I definitely found it insincere in the context of you holding forth on the sacrifices sports athletes make from childhood. Your context was totally irrelevant which I said at the time, it added no context to prove that you had any knowledge on the subject of sacrifices made by athletes.
We all have problems, attempting to use yours while accusing others of the things you have is far worse imo.
Had never heard of this group, did a quick wikki and it seems similar except that this group is identifying themselves as male whereas the group I refer to is exclusively identifying as female.
I'm nut 100% certain but as far as I know the khusra community may have developed from folk being born with both sets of genitalia and then choosing one. However in my own lifetime it's been men transitioning to women as far as I know. Certainly those I have known.
Alright, I'll be straight then. Every comment I've seen about your modding has been negative and my last infraction were for pointing out a bigoted post from none other than you. So Im glad youre not making any decisions on this.
It added context to show that top athletes are pretty lucky to be top athletes in the first place. Not everyone gets the chance, and more kids want the chance than get it. So sorry if I don't have that much sympathy for someone who got all the opportunities when they were younger, had all the support they needed, and didn't get badly injured or chronically ill along the way, if the worst that happens is they finish second to someone who had an even better and potentially unfair biological head start.
In isolation sure I'd give them a pat on the shoulder and sympathy.
But if you want to compare that to the average trans kid and everything they go through, to then be excluded from competing with their own gender. Then i feel way more empathy for the trans kid, and maybe that's because of my own rocky childhood but do dismiss my personal perspective in the way you have done. It surprised me. And then to see the insults, with only one person saying that's not right. Alex99 actually backing the guy up. And you acting like I'm ruining the thread just because apparently I need to have been an elite athlete to have an opinion on this or Im simply trolling.
To be honest you're a bunch of vile pricks and ill gladly take a ban if the mods think I've been the bad one here because I don't want to be part of a community that tolerates what's been on display from posters and even mods in this thread.
Ive played my part but that stemmed from the point at which my sharing my personal disabilities were used to mock me or call me disengenuous. Weird how that might wind someone up.
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Shocker: someone who got an infraction didn’t like it.
I'm sorry, all of a sudden I started reading this in the style of the patent insincerity of a Uriah Heep character and found myself unable to concentrate on the line I was reading.
Now I've read your very last line and something about not wanting to be a part of this community raised my spirits even further.
Whilst I agree you can unintentionally hurt people I'm not sure it's necessarily transphobic. As I say for many years I grew up talking and referring to a community as they spoke and referred to themselves.
Also on another note I don't see difference as a negative thing necessarily. I think it can be celebrated. I feel it can enrich us. Going back to my ex's cousins fella, I knew him as her too and he doesn't need to act "manly" for me to call him him. And if I'm totally honest I find some his actions forced and unnatural now he is out as a man. I've spoken to him about this and he feels he has to act a certain way to be a man. He doesn't need to drink pints, for example for me to call him him. I would still call him him if he drank white wine as he used to.
It's not my position to impose upon him what he should and shouldn't do and it's something he will have to work out for himself. All I hope is he gets to a point he gets comfortable just being him.
This athlete hits the nail on the head:
"First off, I would like to stress that I fully support the transgender community, and that what I'm about to say doesn't come from a place of rejection of this athlete's identity," she said.
However, anyone that has trained weightlifting at a high level knows this to be true in their bones: this particular situation is unfair to the sport and to the athletes.
I understand that for sports authorities nothing is as simple as following your common sense and that there are a lot of impracticalities when studying such a rare phenomenon, but for athletes, the whole thing feels like a bad joke."
- Anna Van Bellinghen, Belgian Olympic weightlifter
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1108399/anna-vanbellinghen-hubbard
(Hubbard is currently ranked fourth overall out of the 14 other qualifiers in the super heavyweight class, meaning she has a genuine shot of clinching gold.)
"First off, I would like to stress that I fully support the transgender community, and that what I'm about to say doesn't come from a place of rejection of this athlete's identity," she said.
However, anyone that has trained weightlifting at a high level knows this to be true in their bones: this particular situation is unfair to the sport and to the athletes.
I understand that for sports authorities nothing is as simple as following your common sense and that there are a lot of impracticalities when studying such a rare phenomenon, but for athletes, the whole thing feels like a bad joke."
- Anna Van Bellinghen, Belgian Olympic weightlifter
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1108399/anna-vanbellinghen-hubbard
(Hubbard is currently ranked fourth overall out of the 14 other qualifiers in the super heavyweight class, meaning she has a genuine shot of clinching gold.)
It's not black and white to me either, there is a spectrum from insensitive to outright bigoted but you should be comfortable calling out insensitivity as well as the more blatant stuff.
I thought you don't like trolls but your fecking having a good go at it.
I apologised but I feel you've brought a level of ridiculous to the thread that I didn't think was possible.
When you think about it, asking someone what knowledge or experience a person might have of the sacrifices necessary to become a serious athlete and arriving at this point in the proceedings you have to start wondering how it was possible.
Because I gave more detail than you wanted which is a heinous crime that deserves personal insults about my health.
I also don't know what happened with that.
I must have missed your apology among all the attempts to wind me up.
Accumulation of reports. Please moderate your posting
You're a fecking prick. You said you're concerned about my mental health at one point and this is how you act. fecking sociopathic shit.
Reported
I'm not gonna lie I think your responses have been a OTT in some respects from where I'm sitting. Especially things like happy to be second...
I also think the questions are very black and white when truthfully I think regardless of what is said on a forum the reality is often different. Many things in a person's life can impact how they see certain things.
For example I gave you the example of the khusra community. It's only later I found out that some of the "operations" was simply a string around the genitals and a sharp knife, back then. Not in a hospital but in a back room somewhere. Had I known someone wanting it done no way I would have been supportive. Death wasn't uncommon from bleeding out. By the way this wasn't just for khusra communities. Am absence of an NHS and the local guy would so circumcision etc.
Similarly I worked in social exclusion and some of what I saw and heard from gay folk I was glad my kids weren't gay. Nothing to do with homophobia if asked "what would you do of your kid said he/she was gay" but seeing the angst and issues I saw. And if I'm honest I always wanted to be a grandaddy etc so I'm not sure how I would feel.
Point being it's not as simple as yes or I'd love them regardless. Sometimes it's love that makes you take a stance as you don't want to fear the worst. For me it's called being human.
Is it not true that most athletes would celebrate a silver medal? I don't really get what is controversial about the idea that being second isn't that bad.
Depends why you got the silver. But you didn't phrase it like that initially.
When I was in high school we had a lad join our year, who was an immigrant. He was pretty soon the best in most sports in our year and boy did he best the crap out of done of the bullies.
I was a kean and decent cricketer but this guy was faster at bowling, hit the ball out the ground, throw further etc etc. I used to open the bowling now he did. Thought fair enough he is better.
Things evened out after 6th form college. I went on to uni and lost contact. Few years later he was in the building trade and we linked up again. He had done work at my dad's house and I mentioned he went to my school with me. My dad knew his father quite well. Turns out this kid was older than his passport said. Had been denied entry once too.
Kind of felt cheated tbh
Have you ever asked that question about why we have separate sports leagues & Olympic Games for handicapped people?
Something similar happened in America in the Little League World Series (baseball). Kid was a phenom pitcher. Nobody could get a hit off of him. Turned out, he was 2 years older than the age limit for the tournament.
There's quite a few reasons including practical.
I certainly wouldn't be outraged if someone who was born able bodied became handicapped and then competed.
Disabled sports are much more broken down by classification though to ensure inclusivity. And those classifications are more focused on the capabilities of the individual rather than how the trans issue is being approached right now.
From what I have gathered/known it happens in certain communities from certain parts of the world coming to England.
It's not always a fiddle as such but birth dates etc are simply not registered or weren't years back.
Also from what I understand it's mainly about putting on a couple of years.
I knew a kid up Yorkshire ways who was very tall. Would have said he is in his 20's easily. Was 15.
Wasn't it yakubu at Everton who was meant to be way older?
Again the phrasing was in response to someone trying to guilt trip me over the idea of some poor kid who gets to do the sport they love as a career, is supported in it 100% by their family who can afford to do so, and then comes second unfairly? It's not great for them but on the scale of things they have still done alright.
You do realize that the sports science question regarding trans athletes is about capability differences, right?
And this response above is a far cry from your earlier “one league for everyone” and “be happy with 2nd place” stance.
This is basically what happened with the kid I mentioned. He came to the US from the Dominican Republic and someone (he had nothing to do with this) altered his birth certificate from saying he was born in 1987 to being born in 1989. Hell, he even thought he was born in 1989. But, it turned out to be forged and his team had to forfeit all its wins.
And yes, it is Yakubu.
Yes I realise that but the debate is being done in much more broad strokes (male/female) and the capability differences haven't clearly manifested themselves in competitive sport yet aside from a very small number of outliers at this point which might not mean anything on the broader scale.
I disagreed with your phrasing and don't agree here either.
Some sports maybe about wealthy parents etc but often it isn't about luck or wealth just dedication from parents.
As I said I was into cricket but I wasn't from a well of family. Cricket wasn't cheap and my bats were often second hand or bought from Pakistan as it was cheaper than paying £100 here.
I forget the cricketers name just now but he went pro. Yet his dad had literally made a small practice pitch in the garden and would just bowl at him for practise. Asian kid played for England briefly.
It's hard work and dedication and having to go without and hours of practice.
An on average 40% muscle mass difference being brought down to 28-35% over 1-3 years of hormone therapy is pretty clear.
And why exactly shouldn’t handicapped athletes just be happy with coming in 2nd to non-handicapped ones if that’s what biological women are supposed to do in your vision of sports?
You need luck in having the physical characteristics for professional sport and maybe the particular one you want to play.
Having dedicated parents is lucky. Many kids don't get that. Many kids parents don't have the time.
Thats why I brought up my own experience of having a stroke as a teenager. I worked hard for stuff, but it was being able to walk again, catch up with the studies I'd missed while I was in hospital etc. We all make sacrifices. If yours are getting you silver medals then you're really not doing that bad.
But of course bringing that up was wrong of me and I deserved all the insults I got for it.
Or the other way round. Going off tangent here but I remember a sketch by the American stand up Katt Williams about "poor little tink tink". Not sure if it was in relation to Oscar pistorios before his sentence.
Basically he won a few races and was disqualified for having an unfair advantage against men with legs and feet.
It was Pistorius indeed.
Luck isn't a big factor often times as you seem to suggest. Sure if you want to be a basketball player but only grow to 5'4 the yeah unlucky. Or say a sport like golf maybe about money.
The average kid in neighbourhoods like where I grew up don't have the money or parents with a lot of time. But many have gone on to do good things with support and sacrifice.
I've known personally guys like Imran sherwani and his winning medals with England men's hockey. His dad had a newsagents but made sacrifices for his son. Hockey wasn't even big around our ways.
Footballers come from deprived backgrounds. Likes of Robbie Earle and Garth crooks didn't have wealthy parents and faced other barriers like discrimination. Heck even Robbie Williams was not from a wealthy background.
By the way I lost my mum a couple of months back to a stroke so I wouldn't find anything funny about knocking that.