Yes but they also had terrific managers before Zidane who couldn't get any sort of the success that he did. Or at least only a small portion of the same success. I think Zidane deserves a good amount of credit for how he managed all the players, and probably a big part of that has to do with him being an absolute legend as a player and everyone respecting him no questions right off the bat. But you don't win 3 champions league's in a row without being good at managing in game, no matter what players you have, and I'd say if there's some things we can for sure say about Zidane as a manager, is that he knows how to man-manage big personalities and bring everyone together, but can also adapt tactically in the game to bring it back in his favor.
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I never said he wasn’t good at managing in game. The players he had though, every big game scenario became natural to them. You can even look at the ages of the players and what they had achieved before.
They wobbled in the league last season as well with a very good team.
Zidane would be an unmitigated disaster. He landed a very good situation and got the best out of it. I am not sure we'll be able to give him that.
I hope Eddy doesn't go chasing a big name this time around and instead looks at someone who is young and hungry for success. Someone who plays football the right way and is not only looking for transfers as a means to improve the team. Someone who can work with young players and gets the best out of them. I personally cannot see beyond Jardim or Pochettino. I am sure there are others with a similar profile. We need to pick one from that lot.
I hope Eddy doesn't go chasing a big name this time around and instead looks at someone who is young and hungry for success. Someone who plays football the right way and is not only looking for transfers as a means to improve the team. Someone who can work with young players and gets the best out of them. I personally cannot see beyond Jardim or Pochettino. I am sure there are others with a similar profile. We need to pick one from that lot.
I see both sides to the zidane discussion. Hed certainly have the respect of players, id imagine he'd play more adventurously and free up pogba and martial and could possibly draw a couple of big players. Overall id lean towards favouring it, though united winning the league or cl with current bunch is the preferred outcome
According to whom exactly? Be kind and throw some quotes/articles our way.
People complaining about Madrid's league form.
Zidane took over in middle of the season from Benitez, won CL and finished 2nd iirc.
2nd season he won CL and won the league.
3rd season poor start had cost them the league but they still won CL.
Madrid under Zidane was one of the (if not the) most versatile sides I've seen in football. They could score on anyone in any way possible, they pressed when they needed to, sat back when they needed to, played possession when they needed to, played on the counter when they needed to.
Ofc he had great personnel there but so did previous coaches before him in recent years and he outclassed them all, whilst investing bare minimum.
Zidane took over in middle of the season from Benitez, won CL and finished 2nd iirc.
2nd season he won CL and won the league.
3rd season poor start had cost them the league but they still won CL.
Madrid under Zidane was one of the (if not the) most versatile sides I've seen in football. They could score on anyone in any way possible, they pressed when they needed to, sat back when they needed to, played possession when they needed to, played on the counter when they needed to.
Ofc he had great personnel there but so did previous coaches before him in recent years and he outclassed them all, whilst investing bare minimum.
My cousin who cleans the Santiago bernabeu toilets of course.
Damn, well I guess in that case it must be pretty serious, we should stay clear then!
Said before that I wanted Zidane as our next manager. With him at United , we would be able to attract the best players. The United players will respect him too. Ed would love him. The media will love him too 
Your cousin must be talking "sh.it" then
I remember Balague saying it on RDLL
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11835/10119598/zinedine-zidanes-10-year-journey
Either way, taking Real Madrid from being excellent to being... excellent isn't that impressive; it's hard to see exactly what he even substantially changed. Luis Enrique did as much with Barcelona.
Would have been sacked without the Champions League win.
Couple of pieces stating the opposite...
Half-time at the Allianz Arena, and after a 45 minutes from which a sub-par real madridhad miraculously emerged level against Bayern Munich, the joke doing the rounds was that zidane would be clapping furiously in the dressing room.
The Real Madrid manager is often described in Spain, rather disparagingly, as a “clap-your-hands coach”, one who rules by inaction rather than intervention, empty platitudes rather than genuine expertise. It’s a way of telling the world that a guy who has won two Champions Leagues in his first two years of management simply got lucky. A fraud by any other name.
What happened, instead, was this. Isco was injured, and so Zidane replaced him with asensio. It didn’t look a straight swap: why not Mateo Kovacic, if you wanted to replace Isco’s cultured control in the middle of the pitch? Why not the far more experienced Gareth Bale or Karim Benzema?
But Zidane had his reasons. Though he was happy with how Real were playing in possession, he was less pleased with their work off the ball, where Thiago and James Rodriguez were passing through them with ease. He wanted Asensio’s tactical discipline, his elastic press, his lightning pace on the counter attack. Within 12 minutes of coming on, and playing in an uncharacteristically withdrawn role on the left of midfield, Asensio sprang out of defence after a corner, intercepted a stray pass from Rafinha and launched a clinical counter-attack to score the decisive goal.
Another problem solved, then. Another clutch game won. And even if Zidane was keen to deflect the praise (“you can’t say it’s my coaching,” he insisted afterwards), the curious thing about this curiously underperforming, curiously overachieving Zidane team is that a pattern is beginning to emerge. For a coach widely derided as something of a cipher, Zidane is developing a happy habit of making decisive changes in big games.
There was, for example, the late double-substitution against Paris Saint-Germain, in which Asensio and Lucas Vazquez ran riot in the last 10 minutes, turning a 1-1 draw into a 3-1 victory. Last season, Real’s 3-2 win at Villarreal was widely attributed to Zidane’s decision to introduce Isco when Real were 2-0 down.
Yes, his playing career afforded him instant advantages that many of his predecessors never enjoyed. Yes, his status at the club smoothed his path. Yes, he inherited one of the most talented, balanced squads in Real Madrid history, and one of the greatest elite goalscorers in football history. And yes, he took over the wealthiest club in the world. But Zidane is on the verge of becoming the first coach to win three Champions Leagues in a row since the 1970s.You don’t do that just by clapping your hands.
Perhaps the reason Zidane’s managerial talents are so often underplayed is that they defy any sort of easy categorisation or characterisation. Clearly there’s a cerebral element at work there, but on some level it’s about intuition as much as instruction: the ability to feel his way through a game, the knack of sniffing danger a fraction before it happens, the keen anticipation that forms the clearest visible parallel between his playing and coaching lives.
The Real Madrid manager is often described in Spain, rather disparagingly, as a “clap-your-hands coach”, one who rules by inaction rather than intervention, empty platitudes rather than genuine expertise. It’s a way of telling the world that a guy who has won two Champions Leagues in his first two years of management simply got lucky. A fraud by any other name.
What happened, instead, was this. Isco was injured, and so Zidane replaced him with asensio. It didn’t look a straight swap: why not Mateo Kovacic, if you wanted to replace Isco’s cultured control in the middle of the pitch? Why not the far more experienced Gareth Bale or Karim Benzema?
But Zidane had his reasons. Though he was happy with how Real were playing in possession, he was less pleased with their work off the ball, where Thiago and James Rodriguez were passing through them with ease. He wanted Asensio’s tactical discipline, his elastic press, his lightning pace on the counter attack. Within 12 minutes of coming on, and playing in an uncharacteristically withdrawn role on the left of midfield, Asensio sprang out of defence after a corner, intercepted a stray pass from Rafinha and launched a clinical counter-attack to score the decisive goal.
Another problem solved, then. Another clutch game won. And even if Zidane was keen to deflect the praise (“you can’t say it’s my coaching,” he insisted afterwards), the curious thing about this curiously underperforming, curiously overachieving Zidane team is that a pattern is beginning to emerge. For a coach widely derided as something of a cipher, Zidane is developing a happy habit of making decisive changes in big games.
There was, for example, the late double-substitution against Paris Saint-Germain, in which Asensio and Lucas Vazquez ran riot in the last 10 minutes, turning a 1-1 draw into a 3-1 victory. Last season, Real’s 3-2 win at Villarreal was widely attributed to Zidane’s decision to introduce Isco when Real were 2-0 down.
Yes, his playing career afforded him instant advantages that many of his predecessors never enjoyed. Yes, his status at the club smoothed his path. Yes, he inherited one of the most talented, balanced squads in Real Madrid history, and one of the greatest elite goalscorers in football history. And yes, he took over the wealthiest club in the world. But Zidane is on the verge of becoming the first coach to win three Champions Leagues in a row since the 1970s.You don’t do that just by clapping your hands.
Perhaps the reason Zidane’s managerial talents are so often underplayed is that they defy any sort of easy categorisation or characterisation. Clearly there’s a cerebral element at work there, but on some level it’s about intuition as much as instruction: the ability to feel his way through a game, the knack of sniffing danger a fraction before it happens, the keen anticipation that forms the clearest visible parallel between his playing and coaching lives.
There is a tendency to limit the interpretation of tactical knowledge to developing a new system of playing and sticking to it no matter what. In the modern era, Guardiola is considered a tactical genius for his tiki-taka football and Klopp is considered one for his gegenpressing. Mourinho, people forget now, was considered a tactical genius for his 3 man midfield that defended well and hit teams with pace on the counter. From the football that I watch most (PL, La Liga and UCL), these examples come to the mind first.
One criticism of SAF was that he wasn’t a tactical genius. He did not give the world a tactical system that everyone would follow. Similar criticism is labelled at Zidane now. With all due respect to such critics, I say that they are limiting their definition of tactics when they say this.
SAF constantly tactically evolved with external threats to his superiority and tactics. He made tweaks that helped him build many great teams over a 20+ year career at Manchester United. People forget his move from a 2 striker formation to a no striker formation with a fluid frontline of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez. Defending teams did not know who was the forward and whom to mark. He was the one who created the 4–6–0 formation in mainstream football. He moved to a 4–4–1–1 formation when Ronaldo left. SAF’s beauty though was he was not tactically rigid. He changed and adapted his formation to the game and the opposition. He successfully used the 4–5–1 formation in Europe during the golden era of United in CL (2007–11), especially in away games. He used to man mark the opposition playmaker out if the situation so demanded. Not for him this ‘holier than thou’ attitude of philosophy of playing. His philosophy was win, play in style, stifle only when needed (but do it without second thoughts) and make the supporters get their money’s worth. There was also a reason SAF’s teams won so many late games. Sure, it was the sheer will that the teams got from his presence in the dugout, from the fear of getting the hairdryer if they didn’t perform but it was also the tactical substitutions he made that helped the teams do it over and over again. If this is not tactical genius, i don’t know what it.
With Zidane, I see many similarities. He may be even more flexible tactically. There is really no set system. Zidane has managed to make his players comfortable in so many different tactical systems that teams do not know what they will face. Critics say that his teams don’t have a clear idea of how they play, players run around clueless. I argue on the contrary. I argue that his teams and players know how they are supposed to play in that match at that moment. However, they do not know if they have to play the same way the next match or the next half. As fans, we are so used to seeing continuity and patterns, we do not appreciate this randomness. There is a quote in a Bollywood movie Iqbal (movie based on a cricket bowler’s journey) where his coach tells him, “if you don’t know what you’re going to bowl until the very last second before you release the ball, the batsman will have no idea as well and this is helps you win the battle.” This applies to Zidane’s teams. The mid games substitutions and tactical changes that win Real many matches (see Morata and James last season, see Lucas and Asensio this season) cannot have come from a manager who is not tactically astute.
From the outside looking in, I can conclude that though Zinedine Zindane is an excellent man manager, his tactical awareness and shrewdness do not get the credit he deserves. No one is lucky enough to win 2 CLs in a row and be in the third final.
One criticism of SAF was that he wasn’t a tactical genius. He did not give the world a tactical system that everyone would follow. Similar criticism is labelled at Zidane now. With all due respect to such critics, I say that they are limiting their definition of tactics when they say this.
SAF constantly tactically evolved with external threats to his superiority and tactics. He made tweaks that helped him build many great teams over a 20+ year career at Manchester United. People forget his move from a 2 striker formation to a no striker formation with a fluid frontline of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez. Defending teams did not know who was the forward and whom to mark. He was the one who created the 4–6–0 formation in mainstream football. He moved to a 4–4–1–1 formation when Ronaldo left. SAF’s beauty though was he was not tactically rigid. He changed and adapted his formation to the game and the opposition. He successfully used the 4–5–1 formation in Europe during the golden era of United in CL (2007–11), especially in away games. He used to man mark the opposition playmaker out if the situation so demanded. Not for him this ‘holier than thou’ attitude of philosophy of playing. His philosophy was win, play in style, stifle only when needed (but do it without second thoughts) and make the supporters get their money’s worth. There was also a reason SAF’s teams won so many late games. Sure, it was the sheer will that the teams got from his presence in the dugout, from the fear of getting the hairdryer if they didn’t perform but it was also the tactical substitutions he made that helped the teams do it over and over again. If this is not tactical genius, i don’t know what it.
With Zidane, I see many similarities. He may be even more flexible tactically. There is really no set system. Zidane has managed to make his players comfortable in so many different tactical systems that teams do not know what they will face. Critics say that his teams don’t have a clear idea of how they play, players run around clueless. I argue on the contrary. I argue that his teams and players know how they are supposed to play in that match at that moment. However, they do not know if they have to play the same way the next match or the next half. As fans, we are so used to seeing continuity and patterns, we do not appreciate this randomness. There is a quote in a Bollywood movie Iqbal (movie based on a cricket bowler’s journey) where his coach tells him, “if you don’t know what you’re going to bowl until the very last second before you release the ball, the batsman will have no idea as well and this is helps you win the battle.” This applies to Zidane’s teams. The mid games substitutions and tactical changes that win Real many matches (see Morata and James last season, see Lucas and Asensio this season) cannot have come from a manager who is not tactically astute.
From the outside looking in, I can conclude that though Zinedine Zindane is an excellent man manager, his tactical awareness and shrewdness do not get the credit he deserves. No one is lucky enough to win 2 CLs in a row and be in the third final.
I’ll have what your smoking pal
The likelihood of us seeing another Ronaldo in our lifetime is so slim
And to have a club legend and leader spend his entire career at the club like Ramos
A sterling midfielder in modric backed up by Kroos
A selfless worker in benzema who grafted to free up ronaldo during his career peak
Yep easy
I;m 50-50 on Zizou, he inherited the best Real team for decades imo, and led them to historic CL wins, not so sure how he will do with a side not world class as that real side. Having said that, if I had to replace Mou he will still be in my top 3 choices, the ammount of players, especially french players he will attract will be massive!
Zidane jumped ship as soon as the rebuild was needed at Real. Even with his Real team, we’d still probably only have 3 in contention to start for that team. There is a big gulf there. Zidane might well be a good coach in the end, but we are still building from the bottom here - no easy task for anyone. Would he really be up to it just yet? I don’t think so.
I'm not too concerned about Zidane having to build a team - if we get a DOF then he won't need to, all he will need to do is coach them.
Having said that I'm 50/50 on him.
Having said that I'm 50/50 on him.
Ballbag has been touted as Barca spokesman alongside Romero.
Madrid eats manager's for breakfast, nothing new about them wanting to sack him if he finished the season without winning any trophies.
Dude no matter the player quality someone has, no matter the all the good karma someone has amassed during his life, no manager wins 2 CL in a row by accident, let alone 3.
He's still a young manager that has lot to learn, yes but far from tactically clueless manager as some are trying to paint he is.
Besides those quotes are without a signed source? They could be nothing more than a pundits assessment of his work.
He wouldn't have that incredible feat without that fantastic squad, if you're able to bring quality off the bench like Bale, then having a good squad does matter.
I'm sorry but why the excitement from our fans over this? He had one of the best teams of all time during his time at Madrid. IMO he's yet to prove himself.
Would he be worst than Jose? Probably not, mind.
Let's not forget that Zidane also came in when Barca are at their weakest in years. If he had to face prime Barcelona like Jose etc had to, I bet his record would be a lot different.
Mourinho had that team for 3 years also and didn’t win the Champs League once. Ronaldo was in his prime under Jose, and the team had Spanish World Cup winners. There’s clearly more to it than just having a great team.
Mourinho had Ramos, Ronaldo, Benzema, Marcelo and Varane out of that squad. He signed Modric in his last season. The current Real squad is much better balanced than the one Mourinho had imo.
He had Ronaldo and Benzema especially in their prime.
Not to forget Ozil at his peak and Xabi Alonso
What I like about Zidane is his willingness to work with young players. I think it's time for us to stop dreaming about signing the finished product for every position and start developing some WC players ourselves.
I’m sorry guys but may i know how reliable is L’Equipe?
True, but you have to have a GREAT PERSONALITY to manage a team like that, to keep them motivated and winning 3 CL in 4 years. This si his next step, to prove himself somewhere like United, if he succeeds he will be Pep v2 (sortof)
He also had Di Maria, Higuain, Pepe, Ozil, Xabi Alonso, even Kaka.
He did indeed but the point I was debating was that Mourinho had the same squad as Zidane and didn't win the CL in 3 years. The squads were more or less completely different, Zidane didn't buy any player that started the CL Final vs Liverpool.
Either way I wouldn't have Zidane as manager, these still many question marks surrounding his ability and we're not in any shape to hire managers like that.
Kaka was a flop. Di Maria was standout only for one season. Higuain was a good player tbf but not one to single handedly change games.
Kaka was world's best player at one point, it's on Pellegrini, Mourinho and the injuries he failed to perform at Madrid.
Di Maria was amazing at Madrid dude, don't talk nonsense that he was a standout for a single season.
There aren't many players in the world able to singlehandedly change the game in their team's favour, not really sure what are you trying to say with that.
Kaka was a flop at Madrid. Stop blaming every circumstance available to defend him. Great at Milan, no way near at Madrid or thereafter.
Di Maria was only standout in the year before he left. He didn't have much end product before that, feel free to look at his stats if you want.
Regarding the bold part, I agree. But Zidane had 2 up his sleeve and Jose had one. The one Jose didn't have ended up being the decisive player turning the game on its head in 2 of Zidane's finals (or was it all 3? I forgot the first final).
Isn't that what you're doing with downplaying footballers qualities to excuse Mourinho for not achieving more at Madrid?
Don't need stats, I was watching the games and Di Maria was a standout since the day one he joined them from Benfica.
Mourinho was actually benching Benzema to play Higuain.
Who's the 2nd game changer, Bale? Guy that has missed something like 50% of games since he joined Madrid. If anything you ought to give Zidane some credit for starting Isco when Bale was crap.
Not reliable
Kaka was on his last legs at Madrid. Injuries took away the explosiveness and his ability to drive through midfield at pace – His main attribute. To blame any of the managers who’ve since managed him (and you’d have to blame all of them) is just ridiculous. He was shot. I fear we’ve been burned similarly with Sanchez, but we have to wait and see.
Madrid’s team was phenomenal but Jose didn’t really underachieve. Breaking the points/goal record and dethroning what many called the best ever football team isn’t exactly a poor return. They were unlucky in the CL SF in his second year – Win that shootout and they probably win the whole thing. Zidane has done brilliantly in the CL but he's got the rub of the green time and again, especially against Bayern and Atletico.
Quit playing games with my heart.
Zidane? No thanks! If things don't pan out for Jose and he leaves this year i'd like a proper coach like Poch.
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