Holy crap Aldo. Cool pic
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- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
So anyone want to make predictions? @Aldo ? 
@Pippa preferred match date?
Very nice Aldo.
That's a fine looking team pic there, Aldo - takes me back to days of yore and all that!
@Annahnomoss
Re: rules for determining the lucky loser spot.
The manager who loses by the smallest margin, in terms of votes, gets the spot - correct?
A possible thing to consider - not saying I would recommend it as such, but it seems like a natural idea to throw out there - is that the votes from the other managers carry more weight (more than the non-manger votes, I mean).
The latter doesn't have to count when determining the outcome of the matches themselves, just when adding it all up at the end of the round.
A-B 10-9 (3 manager votes)
C-D 11-9 (5 manager votes)
When determining who gets the spot, manager votes count as two normal votes. So, in the example above D edges it over B in spite of carrying a worse "goal difference" from the match itself.
Just an idea.
Also, I won't be voting for anyone in the first round - that wouldn't be right, since I clearly profit from voting for the team I deem the weakest!
@Annahnomoss
Re: rules for determining the lucky loser spot.
The manager who loses by the smallest margin, in terms of votes, gets the spot - correct?
A possible thing to consider - not saying I would recommend it as such, but it seems like a natural idea to throw out there - is that the votes from the other managers carry more weight (more than the non-manger votes, I mean).
The latter doesn't have to count when determining the outcome of the matches themselves, just when adding it all up at the end of the round.
A-B 10-9 (3 manager votes)
C-D 11-9 (5 manager votes)
When determining who gets the spot, manager votes count as two normal votes. So, in the example above D edges it over B in spite of carrying a worse "goal difference" from the match itself.
Just an idea.
Also, I won't be voting for anyone in the first round - that wouldn't be right, since I clearly profit from voting for the team I deem the weakest!
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Player Profiles:
Marco Van Basten -
3 time Ballon'dor winner(88,89,92), Player of the tournament Euro'88, staggering 218 club goals in 280 appearances. It is between him and Luiz Ronaldo for the best forward since 80's tag.
Zibi Boniek -
Poland's best player when they finished 3rd in 82 which included a hattrick against Belgium. Key part of Juventus' attach with Rossi and Platini. Was even more influential in Europea matches which led to his nick name printed above.Comfortable anywhere behind the striker, right, left or the middle. One of the best dribblers of all time and capable of setting up and scoring.
Bruno Conti -
One of the best players in Serie A in 80s. Integral part of Italian team which won the 82 WC. Could play on both right or left wing. Among the best in the world during his time, Conti was extremely fast, a great passer and a phenomenal dribbler. Regarded as Italy's greatest winger of all time.
Legend of Bruno Conti encapsulated in this article - http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2011/12/legend-of-calcio-bruno-conti/
Juan Roman Riquelme -
Another Argentine mercurial talent. 4 time Argentina player of the year. One of the best playmakers of his generation.
Lothar Matthaus -
Best all rounded midfielder of all time. Simples.
Jean Tigana -
Part of one of the greatest MF foursome of all time. Possibly the best 'central' midfielder France has ever produced. Known for his contribution both to defense and attacking. Capable of both making runs from the deep or playmaking while sitting in front of the defense.
Roberto Ayala -
One of the best Argentine central defenders of all time. Racked up over 100 appearances for their national team. One of the best CBs in Europe during his time with Valencia.
Tony Adams -
Arsenal Legend. Premier League legend. Part of the mean defense set up by George graham. Key part of Arsenal side which wrestled couple of titles away from the all conquering United team of late 90s and early 00's.
Willy Sagnol -
One of the best right backs of his generation. Part of Bayern team for good part of 8 years or so and part of French defense that made the final of WC 2006.
Vincent Candela -
Part of the French team that won the 98 WC and 2000 euros. A stalwart in Roma defense from 97 to 2005
Jose Luiz Chilavert -
One of the best goal keeper of his generation. 3 time IFFHS world goal keeper of the year award winner. Second highest goal keeper of all time, known for his Free kicks. Part of 98 WC team of the tournament.
Sub/Manager -
Luis Enrique
The new Barcelona Manager is one of the most complete footballers ever who played in central midfield, right wing, left wing, and full back positions in his career. Could not ask for a better sub. Good enough for Barcelona? Good enough to shout orders from the bench for us.
*credit to Crappy for this superb writeup.
But what if C had got 10 manager votes and A only 4? The manager votes should count double on both teams. It really starts getting complicated and, as your last line indicates, you give a lot of importance to those who may have skin in it over random casual voters who won't have a clue on the implications of being best loser, etc. (which is the best voting to rely on really).
Then you have the more relevant problem of whether you apply absolute vote difference or %. In % (or scoreline) terms you get a better representation of how evenly matched both theams were. 8-1 is far better than 24-16 (a 3-2 scoreline) yet 8-1 is the best loser there.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out once you start having managers losing their games. Will they keep bumping the games thereafter to widen gaps, not let a game go dead at 10-9?
Best loser really is a terrible idea.
Every approach has its own flaws so I guess the fair way is to use several ones jointly (which also makes it more complex to try manipulate somehow):
Step 1) Out of 8 losers, the top 3 by lowest vote difference go through (easy to calculate)
Step 2) Consider said vote difference, %/scoreline difference, AND vote difference from winning managers
Step 3) Best in two out fo three goes through. If all three lead one category (bloody unlikely) the one with most votes FOR by winning managers goes through.
Or you can ask me and I tell you who the best loser is. That won't be polemic at all.
What did Tigana do to deserve that pic tarting himself to sponsors?
Chilavert should read highest scoring.
Chilavert should read highest scoring.
Am I the only one who had a Mexico 86 album (not a Panini one) which instead of pictures you had caricatures of the players? Only the big big names got a photo, the rest were drawings. It was brilliant.
I am against making the "best looser" thing to complicated. Just take the one with the best result and draw randomly if there is more than one "best looser". If you are out, you are out. Just take it like a man and start over at the next draft. I wouldnt even mind, if a neutral respected non-participant just decides that. Just dont take it personal or to serious.
Just realised it was 100% Uruguayan industry. Look at what you missed!
Brown trying the only scissors-kick of his life! Passarella playing basketball!
Brown trying the only scissors-kick of his life! Passarella playing basketball!
Good on you, those of us who have played several drafts know it has to be handled wiith care. Everything has been jolly good so far, why leave banan skins around?
Apply the steps above and you very easily arrive at a clear winner with various criteria involved so we don't even need to discuss which one in particular is best.
Just worked it out. It probably was a mixture of not having image rights or no photograph actually being available (which makes you wonder what the cartoons were based on!). The days before the internet, when someone could try compete with Panini and release an album calling Hansen "Hausen".
@Gio will enjoy this, the Scotland page even has a separate area to go at length about Souness as one of the star players going into the WC.
@Gio will enjoy this, the Scotland page even has a separate area to go at length about Souness as one of the star players going into the WC.
Yes, I see your point. You could make my system less vulnerable to tactical voting by scrapping "manager votes" and include ONLY votes from the seven managers who're already through.
It doesn't really matter, though - it's obviously easier to simply go with total votes and leave it at that.
Still, as you suggest it remains a question how one should determine which scoreline here is actually the best, i.e. which manager deserves to go through based on the best "performance".
Another idea would be to let the voters decide which loser deserves a second chance - in a separate poll. It's a simple enough solution and it wouldn't be very time consuming either. The losing managers - and yours truly, in this particular case - wouldn't be allowed to vote, obviously.
The turnout would probably be less than for a normal match - but that doesn't really matter. The regulars would vote and that would be enough. It's sort of a coin toss anyway.
I think turning it in to a penalty shoot out is funnier? We will have 8 losers, making it 7 penalty shoot-outs in total before we have a winner. That way whoever is up against the "second chance" doesn't necessarily have to play the best of the lot.
Every day after two matches finishes, the losers will have a penalty shoot-out between each other.
Every day after two matches finishes, the losers will have a penalty shoot-out between each other.
I think it really could be fun @Annahnomoss , but the idea is to get a second chance because you have a strong team, not because you got lucky.
Fair enough of a reason, the issue is that every match up is against an opponent of different quality anyhow. So the correlation between best loser and actually best team of the losing ones is very low.
We could have matches within this thread where only the managers are allowed to vote on who would win. So every time two games has been played, the losers faces each other in the thread and we vote on who should win. In the end we will have a winner.
Or the managers votes on the two best teams of the losers, who then faces each other in a match like this and the winner goes through.
I agree with Viva, while penos sound like fun it's completely random. I like the settling it on the thread thing. A bit like the way bigsocccer settles drafts without online polls whereby they each rank the teams and they get points based on that. It's hard settling for the precise order for seven but who the top three are should be clear enough. Three to top ranked, 2 to second, one to third. Add up the 7 winning managers + other regulars who may want to chip in, sorted. Yes, there could theoretically be a draw, penos then!
When is my game?
Why is Neville Southall overlooked for worse keepers in these drafts all the time ?
Picked him in a newb draft. Wasn't very popular.
One of only 2 goalkeepers to win player of the year in England and was the best goalkeeper in the world in the mid 1980's. I suppose he isn't fashionable enough or doesn't take free kicks.
The first one, yes.
I think it is mainly about the fact that no voters gives a shit about who you have in goal as long as it isn't a liability. I.e Barthez would be a huge issue for everybody but whether you have Neuer, DDG or Southall doesn't matter.
No team would be worse of with a Southall, but as it doesn't matter people just prefer picking any random keeper they like.
the only keeper I rate over others i big pete. Maybe a bit random. Anyway only if its really close, this might become a deciding factor.
@crappycraperson @VivaJanuzaj Sorry guys. Couldn't get time to do my write-ups. Still trying my best to do it and complete by tomorrow noon. Otherwise we might have to play this on Wednesday.
Makes sense and i'm probably speaking through blue tinted glasses like yous would with Shemiechel but if goalkeepers swung votes then Southall is defiantly being overlooked in my opinion (and every Evertonians ever).
Many under the age of the 30 that havn't seen much of him probably won't have realised he was that good because:
1) He played mostly with Everton
and
2) He was so fat
Many under the age of the 30 that havn't seen much of him probably won't have realised he was that good because:
1) He played mostly with Everton
and
2) He was so fat
He played for Everton when we where arguably the best team in europe though to be fair.
Many wouldn't be aware of that as it was before a lot of us were born. This was when they were banned from europe wasn't it
Yes and obviously being United fans your not going to be clued up on Evertons past but it was just something that annoyed me slightly
It's okay, I'm fine with Wednesday as well if you need it.
Yes and obviously being United fans your not going to be clued up on Evertons past but it was just something that annoyed me slightly
We're usually pretty balanced tbf, but i think in keepers case there doesn't seem to be overly much thought going in usually. I probably value the keeper more than most, hence why i raised on Schmeichel in this one.
I hate when strong keepers don't get any recognition on these drafts. A keeper can easily change the game.
Fair enough of an opinion to rate Southall highly. I've seen him picked more than once though so that's at least something. I think we would need to change the system to add a reason to choose goalkeepers more wisely as the voters give you no benefit whether you have Yashin or Friedel.
We could possibly add a penalty shoot-out bonus to the goalkeepers which would give a reason to select them. I.e if someone picks up Yashin he has a X percent chance of saving any penalty that the manager "missed".
Keepers being ignored hasn't always been like that. Sure, it doesn't impact a game as much as it should, but a big part is how managers go about it. I'd say over the last six months or so people have fully embraced "keepers don't matter" and acted accordingly, particularly blatant in an auction format which is so keeper friendly. It's ridiculous that people go for any old keeper and aren't willing to pay a few bob on top for the right one. I always invariably go for a keeper that suits my defence and overall playing style, and certainly consider it when asssessing teams (although more often as a punishment for getting the wrong keeper). It's not uncommon that I will assume a goal or a half goal for either side on that count.
I thought keepers were getting slightly more of a mention during the last draft, although it was mostly in terms of how good they are with the ball at their feet (Neuer and DDG were the two in question I think). I do try to factor the quality of the keepers in a bit when I'm voting but its not always easy.
In the WC/Magyar one I got Chilavert because he could really come off his line, play ball and start attacks with one of his long rangers. Last time out I had Lama -who was a beast aerially and had excellent reflexes at point-blank range- to make up for Koeman and his various partners not being towering defenders. Casillas would have been really fishy there I reckon, even if his roster is far far FAR superior to Lama's.
I actually rate Friedel higher than Valdes as a keeper, yet I wouldn't dream of playing him for Barca. That's the sort of scenario where I would go "sorry mate, you really fecked up your keeper pick" and assume a goal will come from that misfit.