This needs to be done on a regular basis by his teammates, and not just once or twice for a race of nearly 170kms. Secondly, he was just behind the last member of movistar and he had to race at the pace they were setting. All in all, I am still not convinced by his performance the French media do have cause to ask the question about whether Froome had doped because of his time yesterday. He was asked today by a French journalist about doping and he was asked to look into the reporters eyes and say it, but he was reluctant to do so.
Tour De France 2013
- Thread starter mariachi-19
- Start date
This needs to be done on a regular basis by his teammates, and not just once or twice for a race of nearly 170kms. Secondly, he was just behind the last member of movistar and he had to race at the pace they were setting. All in all, I am still not convinced by his performance the French media do have cause to ask the question about whether Froome had doped because of his time yesterday. He was asked today by a French journalist about doping and he was asked to look into the reporters eyes and say it, but he was reluctant to do so.
Movistar missed a trick here today, they should have had Quintana attack early on the final climb as much as possible and Froome would have needed to pull him back. Then they could have had an attack from Valverde later on. In any case, it was an absolutely incredible ride from Froome today.
Can people be blamed though ?
I'd be very very surprised if he was doping, why should he look into some pompous reporters eyes and say he isn't doping.
And considering the camera wasn't constantly on Froome for the whole day how do you know how often he ate or drank
Usain Bolt can run faster than anyone in the world ever. Including those that have previously doped. Sky built the team to win le tour last year, everyone on the team compliments each other perfectly
Froome could have won le tour last year if he didnt have to hold back for wiggins on some of the mountains, remember he's Kenyan too, they are known for having great stamina,
He had plenty of riders around him though, as long as he stuck with valverde and/contador it didn't really matter who was ahead, Froome was never at the front of his group, always 3rd/4th, he let Movistar do the work for him and when valverde went off, he followed him, he was just using shadow tactics.
Porte fell back due to his over-performance yesterday, don't forget they lost kennaugh early on too
How often do the cameras show the riders peeing, it is the same thing??
They don't zoom in on every rider each time they take a piss.
If I was to put money on someone doping it would be Valverde, he has previous
The bolded part is bollocks too. You do realise that the Sky team were riding for Wiggins, including Froome. Froome was a "Domestique." He had to do the fetching and carrying of water, food etc from the car and bring it to Wiggins. Should Wiggins have had a puncture in a stage last year, Froome would have had to give up his bike. This is why there is a hierarchy in the Tour De France.
Exactly!!
Sorry that was meant to be aimed at B20 who said Froome came out of nowhere, I was just saying he was up there last year. I know he was the domestique, in the same way he'd have to give up his bike, if wiggl had crashed out, Froome would have been the leader and would most likely have won last year.
Exactly, so how can you say he didnt eat or drink anything???
You actually replied to my quote rather than B20s. You should have quoted B20s post beforehand, that way there wouldn't have been such a confusion Van.
Well obviously, I was skimming through the thread and mistook his post for yours
For real? Because this is what dopers do - lie and cheat in exchange for winning trophies and tons of money. It is more unusual that someone in the yellow jersey looks into some pompous reporters eyes and say he isn't doping and actually be truthful.
You can not compare sprinters, whether running or cycling, to grand tour champions when it comes to doping. The gains from doping for speed and acceleration are marginal (though for 100m sprinters, such margins obviously make a difference too). When it comes to climbing mountains for weeks, doping enables superhuman feats on a totally different scale.
You are surely wumming with this one.
Just stating another reason he may be doing better than you expected.
He's just ridden hundreds of miles and he gets accused of doping because he's doing well, the reporter had no reason to accuse him like that and if it had happened to me I'd have told the reporter where to go.
Just found this
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/tour-de-france-froome-couldnt-happier-stage-eight-175151720.html
Surely that's enough, or would you have preferred the journalist to take a blood sample there and then?
It was bizarre that he totally went it out alone today. Even Porte struggled to keep up. Good win for Dan Martin. Delighted for him. I honestly don't really know what I am expecting in the time trial and the rest of the tour. This has been a bit of an up and down event so far for me.
I'll give you guys a bit of perspective, I am not talking about ignoring that they are doping or anything but I only started getting into the tour 5 years ago and riding a road bike 5 years ago. Then I weighed 104kg's and I am 6'2". I was so unfit that I could hardly play 45 mins of football and not wake up being completely stiff and unable to walk.
So when I bought that bike and a mate said to me - "you'll be able to ride long distances soon mate, it'll be great" I said 'yeah feck off, I have no hope'.
So in that four years I am down to 92kg, I don't really watch what I eat and I cycle 35/40km at a decent pace twice a week and (since stopped in winter it's just to cold) doing one bout of between 50-120km on the weekend. On only a $1500au machine with probably not enough food/water intake to be doing it properly.
I'd have never dreamed of doing that when I first started, like I said I'd have said 'get fecked..' Now if anyone here said "get on this $10,000 machine and ride 150km with me right now I have food, supplies and the bike is perfectly tailored to you lets go" I'd say "fecking oath I can do it, lets go."
Sometimes I see the doping shit and go for sure - time wise you could probably calculate through human physical prowess on the road that someone is doping. But then I think just how far I have come in four years and how I am not all that amazingly fit still (not shredded to the core like them and thin as feck but lean) and I can certainly see how these guys physically training for their entire lives and being what they do day in day out can achieve these kinds of things. You know I couldn't do it two or three days in a row not a fecking hope but obviously it's because I haven't done this for 10 years or have youthful exuberance on my side.
I honestly think the top 10 plus many others are doping. He's clearly extremely talented though. Is Kenya 5000 ft above sea level? Only way I can think being "Kenyan" has made him more naturally gifted because on my TV he's not your typical Kenyan. That's racist.
Clearly doping. Ban him.
Sorry bra, I had to do some shopping and i missed the test!..To clarify above I do the mid week rides and not the weekend anymore. feck cycling in 2 degrees at 6am on a weekend.
Would have been good to have another mountain stage again to see if the other teams can break sky again. Though looking at the stages, sky will have a fair few flat stages now to regain energy before we head back into the mountains.
Flat stages are boring. The only real excitement comes in the final ten minutes or so, otherwise all everybody is hoping for is to avoid a crash.
Agreed. It is basically a case of watch the helicopter pan around the countryside before flicking back to the giant pack of people before the sprinters finally do their thing at the end
Here is a part list of the whos who of those riders who have cycled up Bonascre, the last climb on stage 8 that Froome won:
1. 2001: 22:55 Roberto Laiseka 23.56 km/h
2. 2001: 22:57 Lance Armstrong 23.53 km/h
3. 2013: 23:12 Chris Froome 23.28 km/h
4. 2003: 23:18 Jan Ullrich 23.18 km/h
5. 2001: 23:20 Jan Ullrich 23.14 km/h
6. 2003: 23:20 Haimar Zubeldia 23.14 km/h
7. 2003: 23:25 Lance Armstrong 23.06 km/h
8. 2003: 23:35 Alexander Vinokourov 22.90 km/h
9. 2003: 23:37 Ivan Basso 22.87 km/h
10. 2005: 23:40 Lance Armstrong 22.82 km/h
11. 2005: 23:42 Ivan Basso 22.78 km/h
12. 2001: 23:43 Oscar Sevilla 22.77 km/h
13. 2001: 23:43 Joseba Beloki 22.77 km/h
14. 2010: 23:46 Denis Menchov 22.72 km/h
15. 2010: 23:46 Samuel Sánchez 22.72 km/h
16. 2005: 24:00 Jan Ullrich 22.50 km/h
17. 2010: 24:00 Andy Schleck 22.50 km/h
18. 2010: 24:00 Joaquim Rodriguez 22.50 km/h
19. 2010: 24:00 Robert Gesink 22.50 km/h
20. 2010: 24:00 Alberto Contador 22.50 km/h
99. 2003: 26:03 Richard Virenque 20.73 km/h
I had to bold Virenque since he really was the "King of the mountains", however, is just defies logic how he can be so far behind. A pure mountain climber being nearly 3 minutes behind Froome is just ridiculous, even a doped up Virenque. So, with regards to that particular stage, Froome has done better than those who were doped up, which either means that his power output is exceptional or he has to be doing something.
1. 2001: 22:55 Roberto Laiseka 23.56 km/h
2. 2001: 22:57 Lance Armstrong 23.53 km/h
3. 2013: 23:12 Chris Froome 23.28 km/h
4. 2003: 23:18 Jan Ullrich 23.18 km/h
5. 2001: 23:20 Jan Ullrich 23.14 km/h
6. 2003: 23:20 Haimar Zubeldia 23.14 km/h
7. 2003: 23:25 Lance Armstrong 23.06 km/h
8. 2003: 23:35 Alexander Vinokourov 22.90 km/h
9. 2003: 23:37 Ivan Basso 22.87 km/h
10. 2005: 23:40 Lance Armstrong 22.82 km/h
11. 2005: 23:42 Ivan Basso 22.78 km/h
12. 2001: 23:43 Oscar Sevilla 22.77 km/h
13. 2001: 23:43 Joseba Beloki 22.77 km/h
14. 2010: 23:46 Denis Menchov 22.72 km/h
15. 2010: 23:46 Samuel Sánchez 22.72 km/h
16. 2005: 24:00 Jan Ullrich 22.50 km/h
17. 2010: 24:00 Andy Schleck 22.50 km/h
18. 2010: 24:00 Joaquim Rodriguez 22.50 km/h
19. 2010: 24:00 Robert Gesink 22.50 km/h
20. 2010: 24:00 Alberto Contador 22.50 km/h
99. 2003: 26:03 Richard Virenque 20.73 km/h
I had to bold Virenque since he really was the "King of the mountains", however, is just defies logic how he can be so far behind. A pure mountain climber being nearly 3 minutes behind Froome is just ridiculous, even a doped up Virenque. So, with regards to that particular stage, Froome has done better than those who were doped up, which either means that his power output is exceptional or he has to be doing something.
How long did Froome take?
23 minutes and 12 seconds. Another statistic, when Lance Armstrong was riding up the mountains doped up, he was producing 450 watts, same with Indurain who apparently produced 455 watts of power in his last tour de France which, according to scientists is actually "inhuman." Froomes wattage was 433 watts.
Times depend on various conditions, like temperature, wind, whether you are riding solo or on someone's wheel, whether you are riding flat out, and so on. Abstractly comparing times doesn't mean much. Froome's time was helped substantially by Porte.
Vinokourov was done for doping was he? Didn't know that. Only really know the name cause he went into the ditch a few tours ago. Massive crash.
Yes, they have a meter that works all that out for him. When Armstrong was in his prime and doped up, he was producing 450 watts of power on a constant basis. Froome created 433 watts of power which is incredible, considering that the likes of LeMond, who was one of the best of his generation only produced 410 watts and he was clean.
Anything over 420 is actually considered inhuman according to scientists and also, you need to take into account the weight of Froome, who weighs in at 69 kilograms thus it would have been slightly less.
Yes, he was done for doping, just as Virenque et al. Virenque was simply the best pure climber the sport has ever seen, yet if had been in that pack against Froome, he would have lost considerably and yet Froome isn't a pure climber.
Tactical burst? Know he could leave it all out there for the rest day and to St Malo for the time trial? I honestly don't really know the intricacies of climbing.
Not really the case, as there was another mountain stage the next day before the rest day.
Did Cavendish barge or not?
What happens if it's decided he did?
What happens if it's decided he did?
Yes, he did barge him on purpose. I like Cavendish, but that was pretty fecking low. The consequences could have been worse if the others hadn't been so vigilant. He has history for it too. He really is a prick for it.
Yeah Cav is very good but always comes across as a cnut with all his moaning and now this. Hope the other rider is all right, looked very nasty
I hope he gets the book thrown at him. I still have respect for Cavendish because he is good, but as a person, he is a win at all costs sort of person.
He'll lose his stage placing and points. Not for the first time either.
So, Cavendish got away with it then? He said that his course didn't change, but that isn't true. For Cavendish to win, he had to make sure he was in the middle at least because if he had carried on in a straight line, he would have lost anyway because it was a left turn afterwards and he needed to be near to the middle as possible. After watching the crash, his bike moves from the outside right to the middle. He did it on purpose and got away with it, and if that had been anyone else, they would have been thrown out the tour, because it was not fair-play. Either he uses his brute force and win, or he just lets it go, and he is too far behind Sagan to win the Green jersey.
True. And who says Armstrong & co went full out on that climb from the foot in 2001, 2003, etc? And what happened earlier in those stages? Also, in 2001, the Pyrenees came in the third week, after a tough week in the Alps. Now it was the first mountain stage of the Tour and all riders were still reasonably fresh. So many variables which make these comparisons useless. You have to look at the average wattages over a whole Tour to get an idea. And so far, these wattages are still significantly lower than in Armstrong's days.
Virenque wasn't really that great of a climber. Pantani used to mock him that he may keep winning the dotted jersey but he could never keep up on the toughest ascents.
Well, his bike really didn't change that much at the time of the crash itself. Veelers on the other hand moved to the right of the road. You can see it clearly if you follow the white lines on the road. It's just the shoulder he's placing there that's causing Veelers to fall. But that's a natural reflex any sprinter has when someone is getting close to them. Veelers was drifting to the right, Cav sets his shoulder, but unlike what usually happens in a sprint (other sprinter also places the shoulder to counter), Veelers was not paying attention and loses his balance.
I don't believe Cav did this on purpose. Just an accident. There have been several similar almost-incidents today with riders from the sprint train dropping out through the middle of the peleton. They often don't have the alertness anymore and that way accidents can happen.
No, they wouldn't. These things happen every year but the only rider to have been tossed out because of it in the last decade is that complete spazzer Mark Renshaw. Surprised Cav avoided a stage relegation, though.