Tosic - Gone. To CSKA

This is nothing new. Youngsters who start off at United tend to go on and have decent careers, if they don't quite make the grade at United.

When you sign the very best kids around and give them the best coaching is it any surprise when they turn out to be good footballers?
 
Ekeke said:
Sold Trafford

-------------Foster

Eckersley Pique Shawcross Simpson

Tosic ---Eagles--Richardson Martin

---------Campbell Rossi


Eventually this team of non-established players that we sold may end up looking like quite a good team of players. I'm thinking 3 or 4 seasons and a number of them are going to be in demand. And then there's Martin...
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David Jones has also established himself as a good player for Wolves.
 
Ekeke said:
Sold Trafford

-------------Foster

Eckersley Pique Shawcross Simpson

Tosic ---Eagles--Richardson Martin

---------Campbell Rossi


Eventually this team of non-established players that we sold may end up looking like quite a good team of players. I'm thinking 3 or 4 seasons and a number of them are going to be in demand. And then there's Martin...
Click to expand...

Thing is, we've been right to sell all of them at the time, and the only 2 (maybe 3) that are good enough to come back and do a job are Pique and Rossi (and maybe Shawcross). Players like Campbell, Richardson, Tosic etc. are Premier League quality, but not good enough for a club competing for the league.
 
SecondFig said:
Thing is, we've been right to sell all of them at the time, and the only 2 (maybe 3) that are good enough to come back and do a job are Pique and Rossi (and maybe Shawcross). Players like Campbell, Richardson, Tosic etc. are Premier League quality, but not good enough for a club competing for the league.
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Not since we started competing with clubs bank-rolled by billionaires. Since Chelsea started their financial doping the bar has been raised.

A decade or so ago, a few of those players might have got more of a chance.
 
Ekeke said:
Sold Trafford

-------------Foster

Eckersley Pique Shawcross Simpson

Tosic ---Eagles--Richardson Martin

---------Campbell Rossi


Eventually this team of non-established players that we sold may end up looking like quite a good team of players. I'm thinking 3 or 4 seasons and a number of them are going to be in demand. And then there's Martin...
Click to expand...

Forgot McShane and Savage :mad:
 
Watching the match I have to confirm.

Wasting possession, no brain, nothing so far..

Also Doumbia looks very dangerous. Tidy skillful player, making his debut.
 
if he starts to play well are you going to come here and say you were wrong? :angel: I realise people are only as good as their last game but g'damn
 
vuc said:
CSKA's best chance came from his corner.

He looked lively the last 10 minutes of the half.

Give him some time?
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They're talking about his performance in this game "so far".
 
vuc said:
CSKA's best chance came from his corner.

He looked lively the last 10 minutes of the half.

Give him some time?
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a) I was just passing on a comment by a journalist, not judging him myself as not watching the game.

b) They were simply describing how he'd played up to that point, not writing him off shit for life.

c) It's interesting because of all the debates over whether he was good enough for United, as he was never really given a chance to convince us either way we can only decide on his ability/potential by watching him now. I was among those who wanted to see him given a chance, so have no agenda to prove that's shit. I'm just curious, and interested to see how he does at CSKA.
 
Tosic off. Well that's a day to forget for him surely.

Ignasevic with a beautiful FK(Hargo vs Arsenal alike) to make it 1-1.
 
Just seen the first goal, not at all clever by Akinfeev - still not convinced he's someone we should seriously be considering as Van der Sar's replacement
 
Enigma_87 said:
Tosic off. Well that's a day to forget for him surely.

Ignasevic with a beautiful FK(Hargo vs Arsenal alike) to make it 1-1.
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Well that was his first game for CSKA, in a new league, lacking match fitness, so it's not surprising that he won't be firing on all cylinders yet.
 
vuc said:
CSKA's best chance came from his corner.

He looked lively the last 10 minutes of the half.

Give him some time?
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Look, I know you're Serbian and everything, but why the feck do you always have to defend anything and everything Serbian? You're so ridiculously biased its untrue.

Give him time you say? He had 2 years at United to prove he had something.

We saw nothing.
 
MacMUFC said:
Look, I know you're Serbian and everything, but why the feck do you always have to defend anything and everything Serbian? You're so ridiculously biased its untrue.

Give him time you say? He had 2 years at United to prove he had something.

We saw nothing.
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You sure about that?

To be honest, I find opinions like yours (he's shit, we're well rid) as baffling as Vuc's blind defending of him - both appear to be based on sod all evidence.
 
SecondFig said:
You sure about that?

To be honest, I find opinions like yours (he's shit, we're well rid) as baffling as Vuc's blind defending of him - both appear to be based on sod all evidence.
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Even though I've watched him? What on earth are you questioning? Are you saying you saw something in him that made you think "yeah, this guy might have a chance"?

From what I saw, I thought he was awful.
 
MacMUFC said:
Look, I know you're Serbian and everything, but why the feck do you always have to defend anything and everything Serbian? You're so ridiculously biased its untrue.

Give him time you say? He had 2 years at United to prove he had something.

We saw nothing.
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I'm offering some perspective you fecking moron. His FIRST game for CSKA was today, and he isn't match fit.. Don't you think that had anything to do with his performance?

I am not standing here saying he had a good game at all.
 
vuc said:
I'm offering some perspective you fecking moron. His FIRST game for CSKA was today, and he isn't match fit.. Don't you think that had anything to do with his performance?

I am not standing here saying he had a good game at all.
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You think i'm basing your biased on today alone? Get real. You're the most biased poster on this whole forum.

RE - Todays match. If he was as unfit as you say he was, I doubt CSKA would've played him. What happened when we signed Vidic? You should know. He didnt play a match for the next month. Wait, scratch that, what happened when we signed Tosic? He didnt play a match for the next month either. Why? Lacking fitness.

I know this may hurt your poor little soul, but Tosic just isnt as good as you think he is.
 
To be fair, vuc hasn't blindly defended Tosic in this thread, he made the perfectly reasonable observation that Tosic's performance in in his first game for CSKA is understandable — which it is — and that it can't be used as a commentary on the player over the long term.

And I've also seen him criticize Serbian players on numerous occasions. That he contributes to many threads about Serbian players is self-explanatory, and if he criticizes people for making judgments beyond what the evidence allows, good for him.

It may well turn out that Tosic isn't quite good enough to become a first team player at United, but very few United fans can say that for certain at this point. The manager will have a better idea because he obviously watched him a lot in training sessions, and I'm happy to defer to his judgment, as always.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
To be fair, vuc hasn't blindly defended Tosic in this thread, he made the perfectly reasonable observation that Tosic's performance in in his first game for CSKA is understandable — which it is — and that it can't be used as a commentary on the player over the long term.

And I've also seen him criticize Serbian players on numerous occasions. That he contributes to many threads about Serbian players is self-explanatory, and if he criticizes people for making judgments beyond what the evidence allows, good for him.

It may well turn out that Tosic isn't quite good enough to become a first team player at United, but very few United fans can say that for certain at this point. The manager will have a better idea because he obviously watched him a lot in training sessions, and I'm happy to defer to his judgment, as always.
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Heh, this i'd like to see.

Oh, and if saying "Buh, buh, buh Tosic took the corner which led to a good chance" isnt clutching at straws, I dont know what is. That was the very definition, of clutching at straws.
 
MacMUFC said:
You think i'm basing your biased on today alone? Get real. You're the most biased poster on this whole forum.

RE - Todays match. If he was as unfit as you say he was, I doubt CSKA would've played him. What happened when we signed Vidic? You should know. He didnt play a match for the next month. Wait, scratch that, what happened when we signed Tosic? He didnt play a match for the next month either. Why? Lacking fitness.

I know this may hurt your poor little soul, but Tosic just isnt as good as you think he is.
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Course I am, look around this forum and you will find much more biased posters.. but if you want to persist on calling me the most biased go ahead.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. When Vidic signed he was not match fit at all, same goes for Ivanovic at Chelsea - both coming from the Russian league.. Tosic will get match fitness with more games that's obvious.

I'm actually past Tosic now, I wish him look at his next club and hope he succeeds for Serbia.
 
MacMUFC said:
Heh, this i'd like to see.

Oh, and if saying "Buh, buh, buh Tosic took the corner which led to a good chance" isnt clutching at straws, I dont know what is. That was the very definition, of clutching at straws.
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It's actually a statement of fact - Their best chance was created by his corner. If you don't like the way that reads, it's not my problem.
 
MacMUFC said:
Even though I've watched him? What on earth are you questioning? Are you saying you saw something in him that made you think "yeah, this guy might have a chance"?

From what I saw, I thought he was awful.
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Well he was at the club for 12 months (plus a further 4 on loan to Cologne), and while with us made 3 sub appearances in the league, and 2 Carling Cup appearances (again as a sub).
In the reserves he played nine times in his first 1/2 season, and then (apparently*) scored five goals in seven reserve appearances in 09-10 and then left the club. In my opinion, if you start with the a priori assumption that our scouts saw something in him that made him worth buying, that's not really enough time to either say he's mint (a la Vuc) or crap.



*I say apparently as I have no recollection of him scoring 5 times for the reserves last season.

edit: Went through the excellent ManUnitedYouth blog's reserve fixtures, he played eighteen times for the reserves over the 12 months he was here, scored five in total (not five in seven as the official site said) and was only ever mentioned in match reports as being a threat, winning two man of the match awards.

I'm really not trying to defend him, as I suspect we'll be proven to be right in selling him, I just find the vehemence in some people's defending/criticising of him to be weird.
 
vuc said:
Course I am, look around this forum and you will find much more biased posters.. but if you want to persist on calling me the most biased go ahead.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. When Vidic signed he was not match fit at all, same goes for Ivanovic at Chelsea - both coming from the Russian league.. Tosic will get match fitness with more games that's obvious.

I'm actually past Tosic now, I wish him look at his next club and hope he succeeds for Serbia.
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I'd like to see these posters that are even more biased than you, that would be interesting.

Well, its not exactly rocket science is it? You said "Tosic is lacking fitness", I said "I doubt CSKA would've played him if he was that unfit" then, to further provide evidence for my claim, I said "When we signed Vidic and Tosic, they didnt play a competitive match for the first team, for at least a month" surely, from that it isnt too hard to assume that what I was trying to say is that CSKA would do something similar. He could've played reserve matches, done a special training programme, whatever, but the club decided he was fit enough. There. If you dont understand that, then I wont ever bother speaking to you again.

vuc said:
It's actually a statement of fact - Their best chance was created by his corner. If you don't like the way that reads, it's not my problem.
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So wait, creating one good chance in a poor match on a personal level means you've played well now? Now i've heard it all.

SecondFig said:
Well he was at the club for 12 months (plus a further 4 on loan to Cologne), and while with us made 3 sub appearances in the league, and 2 Carling Cup appearances (again as a sub).
In the reserves he played nine times in his first 1/2 season, and then (apparently*) scored five goals in seven reserve appearances in 09-10 and then left the club. In my opinion, if you start with the a priori assumption that our scouts saw something in him that made him worth buying, that's not really enough time to either say he's mint (a la Vuc) or crap.



*I say apparently as I have no recollection of him scoring 5 times for the reserves last season.
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Scouts do make mistakes you know. Do I need to remind you about Manucho? What does it matter if he was here for a year and a half? In the time that I saw him, I didnt think he was good enough and clearly, nor did SAF, and thats all that matters in this argument. I'd like to say something more, but poor Vuc would get upset, bless him.
 
MacMUFC said:
Scouts do make mistakes you know. Do I need to remind you about Manucho? What does it matter if he was here for a year and a half? In the time that I saw him, I didnt think he was good enough and clearly, nor did SAF, and thats all that matters in this argument. I'd like to say something more, but poor Vuc would get upset, bless him.
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I wish people would read posts instead of just replying to a couple of keywords. I know scouts make mistakes, and I also said that I agree that it'll probably turn out that we were right to sell him. I'll even bold it to make sure you understand I am not saying we were wrong to sell him. I'm simply saying that I find it weird when people say he was clearly shit, when actually he didn't play much for us and when he did (in the reserves) was alright. Certainly wasn't great, but he equally wasn't dreadful. I'm sure SAF and the coaches saw a lot more of him in training etc. and, once more, I'm not questioning their decision to sell him. I just really get fed up of the knee-jerk snap decisions people make; Tosic was shit, Diouf is shit, Fletcher is shit (oh no wait, he actually mint), Chicharito is better than Berbatov - sometimes the stupidity of people annoys me.
 
MacMUFC said:
I'd like to see these posters that are even more biased than you, that would be interesting.
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Open your eyes, that's a start.

Well, its not exactly rocket science is it? You said "Tosic is lacking fitness", I said "I doubt CSKA would've played him if he was that unfit" then, to further provide evidence for my claim, I said "When we signed Vidic and Tosic, they didnt play a competitive match for the first team, for at least a month" surely, from that it isnt too hard to assume that what I was trying to say is that CSKA would do something similar. He could've played reserve matches, done a special training programme, whatever, but the club decided he was fit enough. There. If you dont understand that, then I wont ever bother speaking to you again.
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I can't be bothered to get hung up about match fitness. Fact is it's his first game in a new league. A derby at that. Maybe it would be better for your health to not speak to me again.

So wait, creating one good chance in a poor match on a personal level means you've played well now? Now i've heard it all.
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No, where did I say he played 'well'?

I'd like to say something more, but poor Vuc would get upset, bless him.
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Try me..
 
SecondFig said:
I wish people would read posts instead of just replying to a couple of keywords. I know scouts make mistakes, and I also said that I agree that it'll probably turn out that we were right to sell him. I'll even bold it to make sure you understand I am not saying we were wrong to sell him. I'm simply saying that I find it weird when people say he was clearly shit, when actually he didn't play much for us and when he did (in the reserves) was alright. Certainly wasn't great, but he equally wasn't dreadful. I'm sure SAF and the coaches saw a lot more of him in training etc. and, once more, I'm not questioning their decision to sell him. I just really get fed up of the knee-jerk snap decisions people make; Tosic was shit, Diouf is shit, Fletcher is shit (oh no wait, he actually mint), Chicharito is better than Berbatov - sometimes the stupidity of people annoys me.
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So you typed out all of that just to ask why people say 'shit'? Mate..dont read too much into it, i'm sure you've said it about a player before, big deal. Professional footballers are 10x better than us anyway, so what would that make us...?
 
This is the only question that matters in your reply:

Where did I say he played well?
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vuc said:
CSKA's best chance came from his corner.

He looked lively the last 10 minutes of the half.

Give him some time?
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If anybody else randomly stumbled across this quote, they would assume that this player had played well.

Key point is, is that you were implying Tosic played well.
 
vuc said:
Course I am, look around this forum and you will find much more biased posters.. but if you want to persist on calling me the most biased go ahead.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. When Vidic signed he was not match fit at all, same goes for Ivanovic at Chelsea - both coming from the Russian league.. Tosic will get match fitness with more games that's obvious.

I'm actually past Tosic now, I wish him look at his next club and hope he succeeds for Serbia.
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Wow, so glad that you're over him. What I don't get is Vuc, given how patriotic you are, why don't you actually live in Serbia?
 
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