Television Top Gear

Especially as he's now even being hated on for trying to defend himself, and his show, from a one way stream of bile, as if the only correct course of action would've been to lie down in the dirt and die whilst a thousand sweaty anoraks call him a cnut in unison...All of which only helps to further paint Top Gear fans (or at least the militantly pro-Clarkson faction of Top Gear fans) as the same kind of over-entitled, unself-aware, crusading mentalist types as Gamergaters, or that weird section of United fans who wanted us to lose the cup final under LVG.

He could have been a bit more gracious in his defense. More "thank you to those who watched and enjoyed the show" than "feck you for daring to have a negative opinion about it."

I'm of the opinion that his presenting style is irritating and hard to watch and I'm also of the opinion that his tweets have been a further indictment of his character. I don't think I'm on a crusade, over-entitled or unself-aware... then again I wouldn't, would I?
 
My favorite pro-Jezza loonies are the ones who try and paint his sacking as a heinous, license fee crime on a par with Saville-gate... Thus managing to be simultaneously angry at the BBC for both indulging and failing to indulge highly paid stars.
I am a huge Jezza fan but I think his sacking was the only thing the BBC could've done.
 
It was a "meh" episode of Top Gear, probably on the poor side. Not the radioactive canned-AIDS a swath of very angry people on the internet have been trying to convince the world it was.

Nobody needed convincing, imo. The criticism is universal. Only a handful seemed to enjoy it,which is not surprising since Chris Evans does somehow have over a million followers on twitter so he has his fans.

Especially as he's now even being hated on for trying to defend himself, and his show, from a one way stream of bile, as if the only correct course of action would've been to lie down in the dirt and die whilst a thousand sweaty anoraks call him a cnut in unison...All of which only helps to further paint Top Gear fans (or at least the militantly pro-Clarkson faction of Top Gear fans) as the same kind of over-entitled, unself-aware, crusading mentalist types as Gamergaters, or that weird section of United fans who wanted us to lose the cup final under LVG.
I know the fans you are talking about and they are probably impossible to win over, but they are hardly the only ones voicing their disdain. As a matter of fact, when Clarkson got the sack, public opinion was very much divided, yet the general opinion regarding the new Top Gear seems fairly unanimous to me.
 
He could have been a bit more gracious in his defense. More "thank you to those who watched and enjoyed the show" than "feck you for daring to have a negative opinion about it."

I'm of the opinion that his presenting style is irritating and hard to watch and I'm also of the opinion that his tweets have been a further indictment of his character. I don't think I'm on a crusade, over-entitled or unself-aware... then again I wouldn't, would I?

No, but then yours is a perfectly valid opinion. I'm not trying to infer than everyone who disliked Sunday's show is a rampaging looney (I didn't like it either!) if you follow my chain of reply you'll see it originates with a reply to Silva, which was itself a reply to a post about people petitioning for it's cancellation. Something that's been going on for while now, ever since Clarkson was sacked in fact, when a huge petition tried to get the BBC to reinstate him. These are the kinds of people I'm talking about, and the kinds of people Evans has likely been dealing with in the months and weeks leading up to broadcast. From that POV at least, I feel for him. He was always on a hiding to nothing, especially in an internet era where people feel completely entitled say anything and everything under the sun about a public figure, but any kind of human reply is somehow beyond the pale. That's the unself-aware entitlement I'm speaking of... Well, mostly.

The other part of it is the situation that's very similar to the current Ghostbusters one (and not just because of a large demographical overlap of PC-hating white males) whereby the product itself admittedly looks pretty weak, but even if it wasn't, would've had to have been 10x better than any other product of it's ilk, just to level out the ground swell of angry negative opinion against it, by people who are supposedly fans of the franchise, bafflingly furious that anyone has dared make a new, slightly different entry, not aimed specifically at them.
 
No, but then yours is a perfectly valid opinion. I'm not trying to infer than everyone who disliked Sunday's show is a rampaging looney (I didn't like it either!) if you follow my chain of reply you'll see it originates with a reply to Silva, which was itself a reply to a post about people petitioning for it's cancellation. Something that's been going on for while now, ever since Clarkson was sacked in fact, when a huge petition tried to get the BBC to reinstate him. These are the kinds of people I'm talking about, and the kinds of people Evans has likely been dealing with in the months and weeks leading up to broadcast. From that POV at least, I feel for him. He was always on a hiding to nothing, especially in an internet era where people feel completely entitled say anything and everything under the sun about a public figure, but any kind of human reply is somehow beyond the pale. That's the unself-aware entitlement I'm speaking of... Well, mostly.

The other part of it is the situation that's very similar to the current Ghostbusters one (and not just because of a large demographical overlap of PC-hating white males) whereby the product itself admittedly looks pretty weak, but even if it wasn't, would've had to have been 10x better than any other product of it's ilk, just to level out the ground swell of angry negative opinion against it, by people who are supposedly fans of the franchise, bafflingly furious that anyone has dared make a new, slightly different entry, not aimed specifically at them.

Fair enough.
 
I wasn't impressed by it at all, mainly because it's just trying to do the same thing it did before - it was almost like another channel had made a Top gear rip-off. To me, it was, and is a tired concept which only succeeded because of a great number of die hard fans and the charisma of the blokes hosting it. The fact that the hosts, and the show itself was unapologetically "uncool" for the most part (and that they didn't care) is almost why it was fun to watch - it was like the viewer was in on the joke. The external adventures relied on great scenery and the same old jokes again and again - but somehow, despite all that, it seemed to work.

In reality - it really wasn't a vehicle for anything other than the three mildly funny mates to have a bit of banter in the name of entertainment. Evans is a bit shouty and Matt Le Blanc is a more muted version of Joey from friends. I'm not sure how that's going to work.

The BBC are only trying to keep it going because it's been such a money spinner. While they probably had to sack Clarkson in the circumstances, the others were always going to go, (along with the important members of the production crew) given the pay cheques on offer.

I generally don't mind Chris Evans but he's done himself no favours on Twitter. Yes, you may have got a decent audience share but a) whether you keep it is another matter; and b) a great number of those will be tuning in to see you fall flat on your face.

It should have been totally re-invented or scrapped.
 
I didn't think it was that bad.. Evans was very annoying but hopefully he can tone it down in the second episode. I like Matt le Blanc.

It will never match up to the old top gear but it was not 1/5 bad imo.
 
Well, I watched the repeat it last night, only fell asleep a couple of times. :boring:

tbh, I couldn't see much difference between this and the last few series. It's been shite for a while and this just continued the shiteness, there really was little difference, apart from the faces.

When it first started, how ever long ago that was, it was my favourite programme on TV which I used to rush home to watch, but towards the end I gave up watching it because it stopped being the car show that I liked.

btw, there is no way that car produces a tonne of downforce, 1000kg of downforce from that wing? Bollocks. I think that, if you go fast enough, it is theoretically possible to drive an F1 car upside down, which only weighs 700kg, not a chance a road car can generate that much downforce,so they must have mixed it up with something else.

Oh, btw, this:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/01/top-gear-evans-risks-moyes-clarksons-ferguson
 
Chris Evans was trying too hard plus his shrilly voice.. tough to listen to. Surprisingly, Matt Le Blanc was the better of the two, by miles. A lot funnier and certainly more natural in front of the camera.
 
Completely agree with @Sassy Colin.

And also with people that are praising Matt LeBlanc. There's probably an element of him being made to look better because of Chris Evans (& a Joey bias) but I actually thought he was good. He'd have genuinely been a welcome addition to the original line up for an American view or something. It's a shame he's going to be part of an inevitable sinking ship at this rate.
 
Completely agree with @Sassy Colin.

And also with people that are praising Matt LeBlanc. There's probably an element of him being made to look better because of Chris Evans (& a Joey bias) but I actually thought he was good. He'd have genuinely been a welcome addition to the original line up for an American view or something. It's a shame he's going to be part of an inevitable sinking ship at this rate.

About the downforce? Yes, bollocks isn't it?
 
Bless them, they were trying ever so hard it was funny. They should develop there own system, not imitate. Top Gear was all about the personality of the trio, they made the show. Now it's like a version of 5th gear where you know the presenters were gash
 
It REALLY wasn't that bad. Yes it wasn't as streamline and fluid as the 3 chuckle brothers before, but they won't have that chemistry having done just 1 show.

For me Evans needs to be a little less over enthusiastic, but it's understandable as he's got his dream job and is probably feeling the pressure.

I liked the opening Corvette/Dodge scene, but thought the "dog fight" was a little poor, and their challenge driving to Blackpool was a bit pony. It certainly didn't put me off though, I would happily watch it again.

People just can't seem to get passed that it's not Clarkson, they're getting their own show! whats the problem?
 
btw, there is no way that car produces a tonne of downforce, 1000kg of downforce from that wing? Bollocks. I think that, if you go fast enough, it is theoretically possible to drive an F1 car upside down, which only weighs 700kg, not a chance a road car can generate that much downforce,so they must have mixed it up with something else.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-5-incredible-facts-about-the-dodge-viper-acr/

Seem's it's certainly been exaggerated through a lot of press.

They say at top speed it's approx 800kg, at lesser speed it's almost a third of that. It's still an impressive figure though, but they should probably have researched that a bit better.
 
btw, there is no way that car produces a tonne of downforce, 1000kg of downforce from that wing?

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-5-incredible-facts-about-the-dodge-viper-acr/

Seem's it's certainly been exaggerated through a lot of press.

They say at top speed it's approx 800kg, at lesser speed it's almost a third of that. It's still an impressive figure though, but they should probably have researched that a bit better.

At top speed, this is nearly 800kgs of downforce created through the use of a front splitter, dive planes, a carbonfibre rear diffuser, and a massive dual-element carbonfibre rear wing

So yeah the wing alone does not produce anything like 1000kg or even the 800kg of downforce

I think its often forgotten that Clarkson, Hammond and May were are primarily car Journos who honed their presenting skills (to ultimately a very high level) - Even if Clarkson had shouted on about 1T of DOWNFORCE May or Hammond would have pointed out that its actually just under 1T and it comes from a number of elements not only the wing (and they would have done it in a generally jokey and affable way)... hence they were a strong presenting team - which is not replicated by an un-likeable ginger chap doing a clarkson impression
 
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Well, I watched the repeat it last night, only fell asleep a couple of times. :boring:

tbh, I couldn't see much difference between this and the last few series. It's been shite for a while and this just continued the shiteness, there really was little difference, apart from the faces.

When it first started, how ever long ago that was, it was my favourite programme on TV which I used to rush home to watch, but towards the end I gave up watching it because it stopped being the car show that I liked.

btw, there is no way that car produces a tonne of downforce, 1000kg of downforce from that wing? Bollocks. I think that, if you go fast enough, it is theoretically possible to drive an F1 car upside down, which only weighs 700kg, not a chance a road car can generate that much downforce,so they must have mixed it up with something else.

Oh, btw, this:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/01/top-gear-evans-risks-moyes-clarksons-ferguson

Whats bollocks about it? 1000kg is easily believable with all the underfloor aero and front splitter/rear wing. If you thought it all comes from the rear wing thats on you not the show
 
Really good article from the script editor on the previous Top Gear:

http://jalopnik.com/how-we-made-top-gear-1713882209

There we go then. The sun has set on what I imagine we will one day callOld New Top Gear. Now we sit patiently with seatbelts fastened and backrests in the upright position, awaiting developments from New New Top Gear / The Jeremy Clarkson Car Hour / James May’s Amphitheatre Of Cheese.

(Editor’s note: Sniffpetrol – by day, mild mannered former Top Gear script editor Richard Porter – explains how they used to put the show together and what it was like to be at the cutting edge of cocking about.)

This story originally ran in June 2015 and is being reposted ahead of the debut of the new Top Gear this weekend.

Whatever happens next, it’s going to be quite different from what I like to think scholars will one day call Top Gear Classic. It might be made in quite a different way too. I don’t know. I only know the way we used to make the show, which was with a mixture of sweat, panic, disagreement and potato snacks.
On the programme I hope historians will soon refer to as Top Gear – Original Taste the most important thing for any given item was, unsurprisingly, the idea. If we’re talking about a track test, that idea was always pretty simple; is it an interesting car and can we say moderately entertaining things about it while slithering around a runway for six to eight minutes?

Ideas for the big, three presenter films were rather more difficult. Coming up with suggestions wasn’t the hard part, it was the process that followed in which the idea would be prodded and dismantled and subjected to the same line of questioning it might receive from a four-year-old; Why? Why? No really, why? Why were we going there? Why were we taking those cars? Why were we doing this at all?

For those items in which we bought old rotboxes or built something of our own, it was important to have some headline question we were answering or some logical problem we were setting out to solve. Can you buy a car for £100 or less? Can you build your own amphibious car? Can we alleviate travel chaos brought on by snow using machines that normally sit idle in winter?

You needed the question for the studio introduction to give some line of logic, some small reason why we were craving your attention for the next half an hour or so. Once the item was up and running you could drift away from that original point, though I believe the best Top Gear stories never forgot it.

If the idea couldn’t pass muster in the office, in particular at the hands of chief scrutineer Clarkson who worried about this stuff more than anyone on the team, then it didn’t happen. Case in point, we once had this notion that we would re-invent the fire engine. Why were we doing that? Because it seemed like they were too big and too slow and therefore took too long to get to emergencies. The solution was obvious; Top Gear would build a small, high performance fire truck.

The trouble is, if you make a fire engine smaller there’s no room on board for all the ladders, hoses and burly men it needs to do its job. So it has to be big. And then it can’t get through gaps in traffic. So you make it smaller. And then it can’t do its job. And then…

We sat in a meetings for hours debating this round in circles before concluding with heavy heart that the ideal design was a fire engine, as in the sort we already have. The whole idea was thrown in the bin. It would have been easy to have plugged on simply for the sake of seeing Richard Hammond trying to fit a massive ladder onto the roof of a tiny van, but really we’d have been doing it purely for the jokes and, much though it may have seemed otherwise, such brazen comedy chasing was never enough forTop Gear.

An idea had to be better than that and, assuming that it was strong enough to withstand being debated and dismantled in the office, the production team would then crack on with finding cars, scouting locations and doing all the things necessary to make it happen. It’s all well and good saying that, for example, you’re going to re-invent the helicopter and to do so you’re going to need four camels and an exploding gazebo in a westerly facing garden but it isn’t going to happen without the hardest working, most dedicated and talented production team in television. Fortunately, that’s what we had. Even more fortunately, I was only joking about that helicopter thing.

While the ground work was being done, the next job was to script the item. It was sometimes complained that Top Gear became ‘too scripted’ which was the internet’s way of saying too set-up, too pre-planned, too close to a cack-handed comedy sketch. In truth, all TV shows are scripted. Obviously that’s true of drama shows like Game Of Thrones because dragons are heavily unionised and won’t come out of their trailer unless everything is agreed in advance. But ‘reality’ shows are scripted too, and so are documentaries and improv and the weather report. A television programme with no script at all would be a mess. A script doesn’t have to mean every single moment is written down in advance, it can be simply a series of points that lets everyone on the crew how we’re going to start, where we’re going to go, and what we hope might happen.
For a Top Gear track test, the script might have been pretty detailed. It would have presenter words on it, maybe a few chewy metaphors, and it would attempt to pace the item by deciding which lines were voice over, which were in vision, when the car would be moving, when it would be static and so on. Yet even this could change radically on the day, especially if a car revealed new facets or the presenter simply changed their mind on something.

A three header item out in the field would be much looser. Sometimes so loose a director would read the script and slowly sigh the words, Is that it? Ideally, there’d be a studio introduction that set out the logic of the story, some attempt to structure the start, maybe a few choice gags for each presenter to attack his colleagues’ choice of cars (though they preferred to keep the really good ones to themselves and unleash them like Indiana Jones’s whip when least expected) and then a broad attempt to order the item’s activities. Even so, one of the most common words on a Top Gearscript was a vague, director-baiting place holder that simply said, ‘whatever’.
 
Part 2:


The actual process for writing scripts, or at least sitting down to fill in the gaps with ‘whatever’, took several forms. Sometimes Jeremy would get a rush of blood to the head and crack on with it on his own, then email me a first draft with a simple note at the top; ‘ADD FACTS AND GAGS’. Sometimes one or more of us would go over to his flat near the Top Gearoffice and work on it together. Clarkson would usually drive the computer, jabbing awkwardly at the keyboard with a single rigid digit on each hand, like he was trying to CPR a rat.

His ungainly typing style disguised his immense ability as the fastest writer I’ve ever worked with, rapidly producing first draft words that were sharper, tighter and funnier than most word jockeys could manage after 20 attempts. Every so often he’d pause as he searched for a chunky analogy to illustrate a point and we’d spend a minute or two bouncing gags back and forth, trying to make each other laugh. A lot of Top Gear writing was based around men in a room trying to make each other laugh.

Eventually, the script would be in some sort of workable shape, the gold plated unicorns would have been sourced, and we’d be in a position to film the damn thing. For this we would need three film crews – one for each star car in case they got split up and all the better to shoot the three way chats while allowing plenty of editing options to cut out the waffling bits – and a large van full of snack items.

Once the item was shot, it would disappear into the edit suite where over many weeks it would be diced and sliced and finessed into the finished item over which voiceover lines would be dubbed.

During our usual on-air routine, voice overs were done on a Monday evening the week of transmission, each presenter taking their turn to go into the recording booth while the other two loafed around in the control room, saying unhelpful things over the talkback loop, writing lurid slogans on other people’s scripts and generally behaving like children. Restless, middle-aged, deliberately annoying children.

Tuesday was writing day. In advance, I’d hash together a first draft studio script, pulling together the planned intros for each film, adding some thoughts for discussions out of them, and doing the ‘housekeeping’ of adding sections like the ‘Tonight….’ menu, the Stig ‘some say’ lines and the guest introduction. Then the presenters would arrive and we’d start the process of refining, revising or completely re-writing the words during which the three of them would read my jokes and either laugh, in which case I would inwardly fist pump, or say ‘hmm, not sure about that’, in which case I would inwardly sob, though outwardly I would stand behind them at the computer and do neither of those things.

At some point in the morning we’d turn our attention to the massive slick of press releases and pictures laid out on the floor behind us and the presenters would begin reading out things and firing one-liners at each other, the best bits of which I’d attempt to write down and later type up into bullet points from which the rough shape of the news segment would emerge.

Then, once the script was deemed satisfactory, and there were enough items in the news document, we’d sit down in front of the whole production team and read through our homework. If they laughed at the jokes, we’d go home happy. If the material fell flat on its arse we’d despondently go back to the computer and keep working.

Either way, we’d fetch up at the studio the next morning and Jeremy would thunder into the crappy presenters’ room at the back of our shabby Portakabin with a dozen new script tweaks, suggestions and jokes. The rest of us might turn up on a Wednesday morning with one vague thought for something that could be improved; only Jeremy would have lain awake all night worrying over tiny details and agonising over the smallest point until he’d got it right. Top Gear might sometimes have seemed like a big, freewheeling, slobbery, shambolic mess but you’d be amazed at the attention to detail. Someone once asked me what it was like to write on the show and the only way I could explain it was to say that we could easily lose 40 minutes arguing whether ‘raspberries’ was a funnier word than ‘hat’.

On those Wednesday mornings at Dunsfold we’d spend another couple of hours having debates about such things followed by a technical rehearsal in the studio, a spot of lunch and then all hands on deck. Are the presenters dressed? Is the audience in? Are the machines recording? Then it’s show time.

Or at least, it was. Maybe one day it will be again. Who knows how Top Gearand its pattern parts replica might turn out in the future. For all concerned, I just hope the production process is something like it was on the show we might one day come to call Top GearThe Golden Years: Disorganised, exhausting, stupid and a simply enormous amount of fun.
 
Good read that, thanks swooshboy!


As for the show.. after reading all over the internet how everyone (I presume they were all 12 years old) was crying over the fact that the new Top Gear would be the worst thing since ever because the golden trio of Clarkson, May and Hammond was not hosting, I was actually quite excited by it. Since the old gang would have a new show it was a win-win for me since the more car shows there are the happier I am.

I just wish they would have tried to do something a bit more different than just "the same but with other people and some twists"..
The only thing I've ever heard or seen of Evans are the two times he's been on old Top Gear so I didn't really know what to expect from him, but it's quite clear that he's not a good fit for the role.. Pretty much everything inside the studio was just really, really poor imo, with the guest "interview" the turd-cherry to top it all off. Seriously, WTF was that?..

The other bits was pretty decent though imo. Leblanc did more than well I think but would love to see him with Chris Harris instead of Evans.
 
Finally got round to watching it, just about 20 mins in and it's actually not that bad.

I mean it's not good, but it's standard Top Gear.
 
Finally got to watch it yesterday and thought it was bloody awful. Worst Top Gear episode in years.

What does Gear Knob begin on Amazon Prime?
 
Why didn't they just get Chris Harris and Tiff Needell to present? Maybe Steve Sutcliffe as the third cast member.

That black guy from Recombu did really well on the Top Gear Extra programme though.

BBC are such fools. They've made a total mess of this legendary show. Chris Evans is a total twat.
 
BBC are such fools. They've made a total mess of this legendary show. Chris Evans is a total twat.
Completely wrong choice for the show. I'll be honest when i first heard that the show would be revamped i was excited, i thought "great! there'll be a whole new direction". Instead we were treated to two new presenters trying to keep it like old top gear.

'Joey' or Evans will never match the enthusiasm of the other three so why bother? Why not start of with something different (something less loud like Top Gear 2004ish) and build on it? No... Thats stupid... Lets just have Evans do his best Clarkson impression
 
Why would they completely revamp it? It's a massive cash cow. Getting in new presenters and letting twats get angry about it was easily the best choice on the table.
 
Why would they completely revamp it? It's a massive cash cow. Getting in new presenters and letting twats get angry about it was easily the best choice on the table.
Because it was an option to breath life into something that had been stale for a few seasons. Since season 19 Top Gear has been pants, sure the specials were good but everything else just felt like it became a parody of itself. But i still tuned in because it was 3 idiots doing idiotic things, which was fun to watch. Here, trying to use that same formula with people who dont have the same chemistry is doomed to fail. Couldnt they have started of with a more serious tone? Instead of trying to match the previous presenters, heck it took those three a few seasons to build the chemistry they ended up having.

BBC had the chance to do something different which, had they done, wouldnt have received the same backlash as they have here. In the long run if they continue trying to emulate what made the old series great viewers will stop tuning in and they'll end up having to change anyway.
 
Because it was an option to breath life into something that had been stale for a few seasons. Since season 19 Top Gear has been pants, sure the specials were good but everything else just felt like it became a parody of itself. But i still tuned in because it was 3 idiots doing idiotic things, which was fun to watch. Here, trying to use that same formula with people who dont have the same chemistry is doomed to fail. Couldnt they have started of with a more serious tone? Instead of trying to match the previous presenters, heck it took those three a few seasons to build the chemistry they ended up having.

BBC had the chance to do something different which, had they done, wouldnt have received the same backlash as they have here. In the long run if they continue trying to emulate what made the old series great viewers will stop tuning in and they'll end up having to change anyway.
Don't you think it's a bit silly to moan about the chemistry of the current present while admitting that took the old ones a while? Again, you have to keep in mind just how successful the show is internationally - countries where the show is dubbed by voice actors and the chemistry of the three idiots will take a major dent. The negative reaction is from a small, but loud minority of the British audience, no one else gives a flying a feck about Clarkson and co.

Honestly, as much as you dislike it, if you were in the meeting rooms when they were going over this, and you took into consideration just how much of an international phenomenon the show is, you'd make the same decisions they did. Make a similar show, and sell it for insane profits. The British audience is the minority here, and it would have been a bad move for the BBC to listen the loud minority who wanted to burn it to the ground. And if you didn't make the same decisions, they'd fire you for taking unnecessary risks. As for the serious tone, come on now, that's not what made it so successful. It's the high production values and silly stunts that make it what it is. Who wants to watch actual car reviews?
 
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Forgot this was on again tonight, wonder how the ratings will hold up after the week one backlash and being up against Soccer Aid