If you think so.
Top 4 race 2016/17
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
If you think so.
Why do Spurs care about top four? They just rest players for the champions league and make a mockery of it anyway. Then moan about how Wembley cost them.
Am I not right @GlastonSpur.
Am I not right @GlastonSpur.
Is this a bit like the moral victory cup that Kompany used to bang on about.
It's a load of shite, there is only one table that matters, and in fairness you are ahead on that one.
Fantasy tables mean shit.
Oh did not realise it! Well from my perspective better Spurs than City. Regardless, it will be a long, tough season.
Spurs will be fine though, you've lost 2 games all season 1 against us and 1 against Chelsea. You're hard to beat and are very consistent against the lesser sides. I'm pretty confident you'll finish top 4
CL money is sweet. That's why they care about top 4.
It is a load of shit.
That's what happens when there are so many fixtures! Apologies. It is probably amusing for other fans to see the Manchester clubs outside of the top 4, given they were 2 of the strong favourites at the outset of the season.
Yes, but when they will finally get the new bestest stadium, they will fecking rule the world. Or something like that.
Teams that fight to get in Europe (be it UCL or Europa) and then throw the white towel in order to concentrate on going in Europe next season, are the worst.
No, you are not right.
We've rested players for EL games, but not for the CL as far as I recall. And there's no doubt playing home games at Wembley rather than WHL had some negative effect, just as it did for Arsenal previously.
Liverpool did the exact same thing too.
Resting players for a match against Real Madrid away. Isn't that the whole point of trying to get in the competition? To play in games like that.
Spurs care about the CL for the same reasons as any other club, including money and the chance to play against great teams.
Spurs will have the exact same hindrance and City and Arsenal in the Champions League.
No we were full strength for that one and still lost 3-0 - but rested a few for the away game as we were playing Chelsea in the league on the following Saturday. We lost both - Rodgers thought he was being smart but it completely backfired.
which was inevitable and easily predicted when PL stockpiled worlds best managers provided with the biggest ever transfer kitty's!
I really don't get this point at all. Seems to be clutching at straws in hope more than anything.
Take Alli and Kane out of Spurs, Hazard and Costa out of Chelsea, Lallana and Mane out of Liverpool, Sanchez and Ozil out of Arsenal, and the cracks will show. The fact is all teams are subject to these possibilities and that's why luck plays a big part. I would also add that despite his age, Ibra is probably one of the finest athletes in the league so the age card is rather pointless.
Yes Pogba and Ibra make us tick but most top teams are reliant on a few individuals and hope they play the majority of games to sustain momentum. United arguably has better depth than rivals also.
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The bollocks some people spout you have to wonder if they have even watched us, or have even a clue as to what they are talking about. We are on a 4 game winning streak (trashed Middlesbro 3-0, deservedly beat Everton 1-0, Pummelled Stoke 4-1 (could easily have been 7 or 8) and beat the team in 3rd place without 2 of our best players by utilising a surprising tactical move that worked to perfection.
You most certainly do not know Klopp. Ridiculously poor post.
It is insane - brilliant season. Will probably lead to a record number of posts made on RedCafe too !
Come to Big Soccer Dortmund forum and see If I know Klopp
I have been watching Klopp for 7-8 years now. There is a reason that half of the team was injured in 13/14. There is a reason that other BL coaches got his number and he could not adjust in 14/15 season. Ask any Dortmund fans if they want Klopp back.
Your defense is shit and goalie.
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The numerous, obviously intelligent, Bayern and Dortmund supporters on this forum have already trashed your 'knowledge of Klopp/Dortmund' with actual facts and statistics not pompous opinion.Come to Big Soccer Dortmund forum and see If I know Klopp
I have been watching Klopp for 7-8 years now. There is a reason that half of the team was injured in 13/14. There is a reason that other BL coaches got his number and he could not adjust in 14/15 season. Ask any Dortmund fans if they want Klopp back.
Your defense is shit and goalie.
Your last sentence epitomises your lack of knowledge and right to any credibility at all.
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You have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you that hurt that I placed Liverpool at 4th? Get over it.
Actual facts, for those who have no clue about Dortmund and have to rely on Bayern fans opinion
13/14 season injury crisis are on Klopp, his training methods and his medical team inability to recover players. 14/15 season fiasco is on Klopp as well. As a result, he left the club and TT has done a much better job in terms of diet, fitness and tactics.
PS. I thought you were a a City supporter. I meant City's defense and goalie, although you have problems with your goalie. Anyways, good luck with Klopp.
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Are Liverpool losing both Matip and Manè this month?
Just Mane.
So better for them. Losing Matip as well would have been too much.
You are so wrong on so many levels that it's not worth to even get started. Let me just say that your 7-8 years of watching Dortmund and being active on a Dortmund forum prove absolutely nothing and neither make up for working with football players on a professional level nor for actual knowledge/expertise of medicine and training methods.You have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you that hurt that I placed Liverpool at 4th? Get over it.
Actual facts, for those who have no clue about Dortmund and have to rely on Bayern fans opinion
13/14 season injury crisis are on Klopp, his training methods and his medical team inability to recover players. 14/15 season fiasco is on Klopp as well. As a result, he left the club and TT has done a much better job in terms of diet, fitness and tactics.
PS. I thought you were a a City supporter. I meant City's defense and goalie, although you have problems with your goalie. Anyways, good luck with Klopp.
That's a bit of a daft comment - our best run of form has just come when we have played 7 games in a month, averaging just 3.8 days per game. That's the heaviest schedule we have had all season.
Without the flying I think is the point.
Well, that's playing down your potential problems in goal-scoring dept. a bit, don't you think?
Our top scorer is Sadio Mane, and he scored 17% of our goals. Meanwhile, Ibrahimovic scored 41% of United's goals.
And the actual top four teams? Outside of Chelsea with Costa (33), none come close in hardcore reliance on one player that Manchester United have right now. Not to mention, the actual top four teams have all scored around 40-45 goals, you lot didn't even score 30. And before you say, "well at least our defense is solid", I must quickly point out that we've got the same number of clean sheets (6).
All that combined with the fact this is by far the most competitive PL season ever, with Spurs in fifth with 39 points (previously unheard of), as well as Kane not even in his final form yet, United fans must ask themselves whether or not top four is even a realistic goal this season?
In my honest opinion, without significantly strengthening in the striker/winger dept. in January, it's probably not.
Your "better depth than rivals" this season is essentially "more famous players than rivals", results just don't cut it. Perhaps with Mkhitaryan finally fit, this will change, but outside of City, nobody is currently failing, and City will be replaced by Spurs in fourth. I'll admit Spurs lack mental strength to see out a competitive season, but that's also the only argument you still got on why you should be in the race. Well, that and obviously City falling on hard times.
One could say that CL distraction will hurt three of the top teams, but then again you have to play EL, so not much good news for your fitness coaches there either.
He's been out for 4 matches now - we've conceded 1 goal in that time. I do agree though, I'd like him back ASAP.
This season may well go down as a bit of an anomaly (like Leicester going the distance last season) due to fact we have six teams well and truly in the running [for top four], and arguably well matched, this far into the season. The six teams in question have pulled away earlier than usual and it's a straight out battle now, normally there aren't as many teams with such a realistic chance, but it may well still come down to a top three pulling away and two teams fighting over 4th place which is often the case.
I took a bit of time today to take the last 10 seasons into account in terms of the Top Four and see what a realistic target is. These are the findings (regular brackets dictate how many points ahead of 5th place the 4th place team finished, while the square brackets show how many teams finished on 80+ Points that season):
2015/16 - 66 (0) [1]
2014/15 - 70 (6) [1]
2013/14 - 79 (7) [3]
2012/13 - 73 (1) [1]
2011/12 - 69 (4) [2]
2010/11 - 68 (6) [1]
2009/10 - 70 (3) [2]
2008/09 - 72 (9) [3]
2007/08 - 76 (11) [3]
2006/07 - 68 (8) [2]
United are currently 6th with 36 Points. If we are to match our record from the first 19 games in the second half of the season, we'd finish on 72 Points which is enough to finish 4th in all but three of the last 10 seasons. However, calling it a median of 72~ Points would increase that chance slightly. Obviously, as I stated right at the start, this season could be an anomaly as each team in the current top six is probably capable of matching their current WDL record in the second half of the season.
However, if we really have 'turned a corner' like a lot of people are saying, then we should better our W10 D6 L3, at least slightly, for the next 19. Stats also show that the team who finish 4th will not reach 80 Points, it just doesn't seem to happen. I can't go out and say that any of the teams in question cannot reach 80 Points though, they're all very capable.
A lot will now come down to the games against each other IMO. In a lot of past seasons, you could draw these games, live to fight another day and hope you do better against the rest of the league. This time, it really is crunch time. When you come up against a close rival, you've got to take them out. It really matters.
Hope we can do it, we're the slightly more outside chance purely because we're still 6th and have the most to do. But, it can all change in a few weeks as we've seen time and time again. This is a close run thing and I can see it staying that way right down to the wire.
I took a bit of time today to take the last 10 seasons into account in terms of the Top Four and see what a realistic target is. These are the findings (regular brackets dictate how many points ahead of 5th place the 4th place team finished, while the square brackets show how many teams finished on 80+ Points that season):
2015/16 - 66 (0) [1]
2014/15 - 70 (6) [1]
2013/14 - 79 (7) [3]
2012/13 - 73 (1) [1]
2011/12 - 69 (4) [2]
2010/11 - 68 (6) [1]
2009/10 - 70 (3) [2]
2008/09 - 72 (9) [3]
2007/08 - 76 (11) [3]
2006/07 - 68 (8) [2]
United are currently 6th with 36 Points. If we are to match our record from the first 19 games in the second half of the season, we'd finish on 72 Points which is enough to finish 4th in all but three of the last 10 seasons. However, calling it a median of 72~ Points would increase that chance slightly. Obviously, as I stated right at the start, this season could be an anomaly as each team in the current top six is probably capable of matching their current WDL record in the second half of the season.
However, if we really have 'turned a corner' like a lot of people are saying, then we should better our W10 D6 L3, at least slightly, for the next 19. Stats also show that the team who finish 4th will not reach 80 Points, it just doesn't seem to happen. I can't go out and say that any of the teams in question cannot reach 80 Points though, they're all very capable.
A lot will now come down to the games against each other IMO. In a lot of past seasons, you could draw these games, live to fight another day and hope you do better against the rest of the league. This time, it really is crunch time. When you come up against a close rival, you've got to take them out. It really matters.
Hope we can do it, we're the slightly more outside chance purely because we're still 6th and have the most to do. But, it can all change in a few weeks as we've seen time and time again. This is a close run thing and I can see it staying that way right down to the wire.
Another question: what's up with Sakho? He's a misfit this season.
It's no secret that United not only have to be more clinical in front of goal, we also need a better share of our goals, but we are creating plenty of chances so I am not too worried. That 30 goals total should be closer to 40 with better finishing, so I'm sure they are focused on that in training. Not to mention a few superman-like performances from opposition goalkeepers but that happens (Grant especially). Hopefully in the second half of the season the team will chip in with more goals, particularly Martial and Mkhitaryan who are back in the mix looking good, and Pogba who seems to be in his beastly groove. He has hit the post 6 times, tough luck I know but frustrating all the same. Anyway my point is the chances are being created and I will trust the quality of the players to step up in the second half. The team clearly struggled for a period of time at the start of the season, which made things difficult as Jose experimted to find his best 11, though things seem to be settled now. It is his first season after all so I expect a steady improvement (Poch and Klopp are examples of this).
I really don't get into these debates like 'what if Ibra gets injured and is out for a period of time, he is your top goal scorer'. It's all speculation. What if Mane gets a long term injury at the AFCON, what if Hazard downs tools and goes missing again, what if Kane has another 10 game goal drought etc. etc. Yes you will say these teams have a better spread of goals, but I can counter that and say will players like Lallana maintain this level throughout a full season?
Also another point you didn't mention is will Spurs players burn out like they did last season? Will Klopp burn his players out towards the end of the season also? All this pressing eventually catches up on players somewhere along the line. Those last 5 games in the league can be critical, and as you said Spurs folded at the business end last season. As long as United are within striking distance I will always expect Jose to be able to do the business. We play Spurs and Arsenal away in the last 3 games of the season which could be huge games. We all know Jose' record against Arsene and will Spurs do a Spurs?
We may have the same number of clean sheets but I still maintain our defence is a lot more solid, this is obvious when you watch both teams. We are much more capable of taking a 1-0 and shutting up shop. Yes you did this successfully v City for the first time but your players were far from comfortable with it. United have thrown a few clean sheets away recently also in the closing stages of games (Arsenal, Everton).
It'll be an interesting and exciting second half of the season either way and I think United are currently capable of beating any team in the league, which wasn't the case a few months ago. That 2 wins from 11 games really was a nightmare, and yet we are 'only' 4 points from 3rd.
Gone this January I'll bet. His fall-out with Klopp was catastrophic for his Liverpool career.
His career at Liverpool looked on his way up until last season. Shame for him.
Not expecting a top 4 finish, but with our strongest line up, I'm more hopeful of a Europa league triumph. St.Etienne shouldn't be much of an obstacle, and with our strongest line up and over two games I'm positive we'll defeat any of the remaining teams as long as we don't drop off drastically for the remainder of the season.
League position is dependant on a lot of factors, not all of which is in our control. But we shouldn't by any means give up till the very end. Some exciting ties at the end, and it wouldn't be a progress unless we push it till the very last.
League position is dependant on a lot of factors, not all of which is in our control. But we shouldn't by any means give up till the very end. Some exciting ties at the end, and it wouldn't be a progress unless we push it till the very last.
Yeah, ok. Why did Klopp leave? Did other BL coaches figured out how to play against him? Was he flexible with his tactics? Not a big secret, really. I invite you to our place for a discussion, not sitting at Man Utd forum and talking about it.
You have to have in mind that the main reason Zlatan is our main source of goals was that our left and right side of the attack, in 433 we play, didn't contribute almost at all, it was really hurting us. Mkhi getting fit and in form along with Martial resurgence would go a long way of solving that. Pogba will start bagging more soon as well. He is getting more and more comfortable and he hit post like what, 6-7 times already this season? I am pretty certain that we will be scoring much more in the 2nd half of the season.