Top 4 race 2016/17

A slim chance? I'd be very disappointed if we don't finish 4th now.
So would Arsenal and City. There's not a great deal between the squad's competing for 4th but being 4 points behind is obviously a disadvantage. I'd personally feel more confident if we were closer to a team like Liverpool who aren't perennial 4th place finishers. Because arsenal crumble when the stakes are high, they seem to excel at winning 4th.

Every United fan should be disappointed if we don't want finish 4th. Heck, not challenging is a disappointment in itself.
 
Except we haven't really. Both have played 2 of the top 4 at home and two away. Should Liverpool win tonight as expected we'll have played each of the top two away from home. Spurs have played one more home game than United and given Spurs wretched away form that should be a concern for Tottenham. You've also played every team in the bottom 7. Utd still have two of those teams coming up. Your opinion boils down to the fact Spurs have been to Old Trafford. Which is strange given you're at pains to tell us all how bad Utd are.

Which means that United still have to come to WHL, where you got thrashed 3 -0 last season.

It's your lookout if you don't think it's significant that United have played and beaten Spurs at home, but yet are still effectively 4 points behind us.

PS. I haven't said that United are "bad". It's just that United are nowhere near as good as they get puffed-up to be by some United posters on here, where so-many of your players are so often labelled either "world-class" or "world-class prospects" based on actually very little.
 
I expect us to finish ahead Spurs now that they'll be playing EL games too. And if a team is to drop out of the top 4, I think it will be either Arsenal or City.
There's nothing much between Arsenal Spurs and us, and those are the two we need to out perform for 4th it seems. City are looking a bit average but they have a much better manager than arsenal do which should see them through.

Either way the crucial bit is that we need to start winning consistently and moreover start scoring freely. If we can do the latter I'd be more much more confident of our chances. As long as every game is a battle (no matter the shots achievement) we will find it hard.
 
It's worth noting that overall in 2016 we've been fairly consistent despite chucking the towel in at the end of last season.

Only Chelsea have won more games than us in 2016 and only Chelsea have lost fewer games than us in 2016. A year in which for large parts we've not played at our level.

... .

Shush, you mustn't disturb the cosy and comfortable narrative that Spurs have "regressed" ... it upsets some United supporters and makes it harder for them to concentrate on which of their players to next label "world-class".
 
It's exciting, as many have said there are pros and cons for all teams involved, bar Chelsea who you would assume won't be caught.

Liverpool are the best team in the league in an attacking sense, but they constantly lob a grenade around to each other during every match, however I think their self destructive tendencies are matched by City's defence, and possibly Arsenal's mental strength or lack thereof. Liverpool especially game-to-game cannot be trusted, but over the rest of the season they should win enough, but you can say that about City and Arsenal as well.

On the other side I think Spurs and United are stronger from a defensive point of view, certainly tactically (some may complain of individuals) but have been lacking the creativity or ability to finish teams off at times. That being said, both teams have been in decent patches the past few weeks in terms of getting on the score sheet and winning games. So based on the past few weeks you would say both are the two more balanced teams, with attacking performances improving.

I think it will be Liverpool and the two Manchester clubs that make it, in any order.
 
It's exciting, as many have said there are pros and cons for all teams involved, bar Chelsea who you would assume won't be caught.

Liverpool are the best team in the league in an attacking sense, but they constantly lob a grenade around to each other during every match, however I think their self destructive tendencies are matched by City's defence, and possibly Arsenal's mental strength or lack thereof. Liverpool especially game-to-game cannot be trusted, but over the rest of the season they should win enough, but you can say that about City and Arsenal as well.

On the other side I think Spurs and United are stronger from a defensive point of view, certainly tactically (some may complain of individuals) but have been lacking the creativity or ability to finish teams off at times. That being said, both teams have been in decent patches the past few weeks in terms of getting on the score sheet and winning games. So based on the past few weeks you would say both are the two more balanced teams, with attacking performances improving.

I think it will be Liverpool and the two Manchester clubs that make it, in any order.
What I'm beginning to think.
 
Many people saying Arsenal have easy fixtures. But when they're low on cinfidence, they drop points to easy teams, especially at home.
Won't surprise me if they drop a few points over the next few games.
 
Which means that United still have to come to WHL, where you got thrashed 3 -0 last season.

It's your lookout if you don't think it's significant that United have played and beaten Spurs at home, but yet are still effectively 4 points behind us.

PS. I haven't said that United are "bad". It's just that United are nowhere near as good as they get puffed-up to be by some United posters on here, where so-many of your players are so often labelled either "world-class" or "world-class prospects" based on actually very little.
Last season's result means little especially when you factor in half the team and the manager are going to be different. We are not effectively 4 point behind you. And the gap could be even less when we've played equivalent teams or it could be more. That's yet to be told. I'll worry about goal difference when we've less than 21 games left to play. You were talking shite about our respective fixture lists and you're glossing over it.
 
Which means that United still have to come to WHL, where you got thrashed 3 -0 last season.

It's your lookout if you don't think it's significant that United have played and beaten Spurs at home, but yet are still effectively 4 points behind us.

PS. I haven't said that United are "bad". It's just that United are nowhere near as good as they get puffed-up to be by some United posters on here, where so-many of your players are so often labelled either "world-class" or "world-class prospects" based on actually very little.
In fairness, this isn't that far from reality, but we could also apply this logic to Arsenal, Spurs, City and Liverpool. These teams have performed better than us to date, hence the league table looking like it does. Spurs, Arsenal and City in particular have moments of brilliance, but then go in to spates of dross. You only have to look at Arsenal in the United, Everton and City games. City were not much better in their games. As for players, all the top teams probably have 1 or 2 good players, world class is maybe stretching it. It is only our own bias, and yours, that see something different from reality.

If you look at form, Chelsea seem to be on another level, but behind them it is only really United that is starting to show consistency. Be interesting to see how things lie in the next month. As for United being 4 points behind Spurs, why would you feel good about that if you think we are so shit. We had a very bad run of draws, yet you are only 4 points ahead. What happens when you have your seasonal bad run?
 
In fairness, this isn't that far from reality, but we could also apply this logic to Arsenal, Spurs, City and Liverpool. These teams have performed better than us to date, hence the league table looking like it does. Spurs, Arsenal and City in particular have moments of brilliance, but then go in to spates of dross. You only have to look at Arsenal in the United, Everton and City games. City were not much better in their games. As for players, all the top teams probably have 1 or 2 good players, world class is maybe stretching it. It is only our own bias, and yours, that see something different from reality.

If you look at form, Chelsea seem to be on another level, but behind them it is only really United that is starting to show consistency. Be interesting to see how things lie in the next month. As for United being 4 points behind Spurs, why would you feel good about that if you think we are so shit. We had a very bad run of draws, yet you are only 4 points ahead. What happens when you have your seasonal bad run?
It's not 4 points. Don't listen to that nonsense.
 
Shush, you mustn't disturb the cosy and comfortable narrative that Spurs have "regressed" ... it upsets some United supporters and makes it harder for them to concentrate on which of their players to next label "world-class".
I'm not sure how that's a contentious opinion. Last season you guys played probably the best football in the league and were arguably the most complete side.

You look nowhere near as good this season currently. Either call it regression or say you've returned to your actual level which is the 5th/6th best club in the league.
 
I'm not sure how that's a contentious opinion. Last season you guys played probably the best football in the league and were arguably the most complete side.

You look nowhere near as good this season currently. Either call it regression or say you've returned to your actual level which is the 5th/6th best club in the league.

Our current level is 5th best, don't think we are denying that.
 
Quick reminder..

table-after-city-v-arsenal.png


United only 4 points off 3rd. Any of the top 6 are comfortably in the race for a top 4 finish.
 
^ Just looking at the next fixture, both Manc clubs have bankers this next weekend. Spurs and Arsenal each have very tough ones. Arsenal should be really worried about United...
 
What the hell has noting that Spurs players were trying to foul their way through the match got to do with being soft, exactly?

Seriously what game do some of you watch? In the recent Utd Spurs game there was barely a tackle of note, we were so passive it was ridiculous.
 
Shush, you mustn't disturb the cosy and comfortable narrative that Spurs have "regressed" ... it upsets some United supporters and makes it harder for them to concentrate on which of their players to next label "world-class".
How the feck have you survived nearly 10 years on here?

Anyway, the top 4 race is way too close to call. Anything could happen between here and May so people counting United out or any other team in the top six are just being silly. Six points between us in 6th place and City in 2nd. Chelsea look nailed on to win the title though.
 
Agree with tom Van Persie - top4 is too close to call. I spent a very convivial couple of hours with a Leicester fan in the summer. We discussed the upcoming season and both thought the title would go to one of the Manchester clubs or Chelsea. We couldn't call it but in the end I went for United and he went for Chelsea. He's looking good but I think those three will be the Top 3. Arsenal will portably edge out Liverpool & Spurs as they normally scrape in. I personally would like to see us go full-on for the Europa League. Very winnable and probably a better bet for CL entry.
 
Can anyone see Liverpool collapsing? They usually excel against the Top 6 teams & batter fodder especially at home so I can't see them dropping out of the Top 4. Unlike the other Top 6 clubs they seem to get consistent goals from every area of the pitch while most are reliant on 2/3 players for goals.
 
Can anyone see Liverpool collapsing? They usually excel against the Top 6 teams & batter fodder especially at home so I can't see them dropping out of the Top 4. Unlike the other Top 6 clubs they seem to get consistent goals from every area of the pitch while most are reliant on 2/3 players for goals.

Yep, they're Liverpool and therefore shite regardless of how well they might be playing. :wenger:
 
Can anyone see Liverpool collapsing? They usually excel against the Top 6 teams & batter fodder especially at home so I can't see them dropping out of the Top 4. Unlike the other Top 6 clubs they seem to get consistent goals from every area of the pitch while most are reliant on 2/3 players for goals.
Think Chelsea and Liverpool are completely safe with the styles they play and not having European football.
 
On reflection yes other than a draw City winning today was the best result for us. At the start of the season I said this would be the year Arsenal missed out on top 4 and I still believe they're more likely to miss out than City (this still have to go to Chelsea and Liverpool as well)
I have that feeling as well, I expect City to to get more stable with time even despite Pep holding them back with his tactics. But Arsenal just look weak and unstructured, they don't look like a top team to me.
 
Quick reminder..

table-after-city-v-arsenal.png


United only 4 points off 3rd. Any of the top 6 are comfortably in the race for a top 4 finish.
I think you're pretty safe so it's a 5 horse race for 3 places.

I know United look like they're on the up but it's important to remember that the other sides in the top six have been impressive in their own way.

- Chelsea have won 11 games in a row conceding two goals in the process.
- Liverpool are the leagues top scorers and for all the talk of our weak defence, we've only conceded 3 more than United and 1 more than Arsenal.
- City built up a strong position under Guardiola and have proved yesterday that they can perform with some big names missing.
- Until recently Arsenal were on an impressive unbeaten run in all competitions and have shown that they are capable of putting that sort of form together.
- Despite some comments on here Spurs find themselves right in the mix and boast an impressive defensive record. They've managed well without Kane and Alderweireld as well.

The way things are right now, it's difficult to count anyone out for top four. There's a long way to go and maybe it'll all look completely different in a couple of weeks. It's way too soon to be saying that any of the five sides from second to sixth will or won't be there at the end of the season.
 
A slim chance? I'd be very disappointed if we don't finish 4th now.

Same. Spurs do not impress me at all.. Arsenal have some talented individuals but we are a mentally tougher team with a superior manager and should not be finishing behind them.

Liverpool and City are both very flawed, but capable of playing football we can only dream of at times.. but defensively, we are in another league to them and will keep getting better.

Outside of Chelsea, we are the hardest team to beat.
 
Unpredictable.

Any projections on the future beased on current form are pretty shaky. City looked unstoppable at one point, then Liverpool, then Chelsea. Even Chelsea are not dead certain because an injury to Costa could jeopardise their season. They seem extremely dependent on him.
 
Each team will go through a bad patch. I honestly believe ours is behind us now, that's not too say we won't drop silly points from now to May but I believe we will start turning them draws into wins and compete more in the big games. Our key players are finding form i.e. Ibra, Pogba, Mkhi and Carrick. In addition, we have a more settled defence with Baily to still come back.

Chelsea will win most likely win the title, and definitely finish top 4 with no european football to worry about and being the run away leaders. City's defensive issues are a big concern but they may sort that out in January and they will get better under Pep once he has a settled side, I can't see them finishing outside the top four.

Liverpool will go through a bad run of form I feel, it may cost them depending how bad it is, but they have done okay without Coutinho so far, the next few weeks will be crucial for them and their record in big games. Same with Spurs & Arsenal. I think there will be a bad run of form from both of them, normally around Feb/March for Arsenal.

At the moment, it is too close to call and depends on many variables & factors.
 
Unpredictable.

Any projections on the future beased on current form are pretty shaky. City looked unstoppable at one point, then Liverpool, then Chelsea. Even Chelsea are not dead certain because an injury to Costa could jeopardise their season. They seem extremely dependent on him.

I guess we'll find out on boxing day when our new lad Michy Batshuayi gets a start.
 
Spurs are a bit underrated on here, maybe because Glaston is being a bit annoying. They played 2 months without their main forward. Had Kane been available, Spurs would have been 2nd right now.
 
I fear the GD is gonna screw us over again. All top 5 teams have + 10 goal difference more than us. In an year as unpredictable as this, there is no denying the fact that the Goal difference might settle things. Wish we start converting those chances.
 
I fear the GD is gonna screw us over again. All top 5 teams have + 10 goal difference more than us. In an year as unpredictable as this, there is no denying the fact that the Goal difference might settle things. Wish we start converting those chances.

I wouldnt worry about that this early, if you have a string of wins that let you catch up to the others, that GD gap will almost certainly narrow anyway.
 
Spurs are a bit underrated on here, maybe because Glaston is being a bit annoying. They played 2 months without their main forward. Had Kane been available, Spurs would have been 2nd right now.

Correct but injuries have badly affected nearly every other top team too, all of course except Chelsea. Which is kind of showing true in the mish-mashed league table.
 
Correct but injuries have badly affected nearly every other top team too, all of course except Chelsea. Which is kind of showing true in the mish-mashed league table.

Agreed. Chelsea have been lucky so far. Or maybe Conte has prepared them better than the other teams?
 
Anyway, I think that if Spurs had Kane in all games and had Costa been out for 2 months, Spurs would have been at least 2nd and Chelsea probably 5th.
 
It's true that we've had far fewer lengthy injuries to other title contenders, but this has been the case for so many seasons that I'm not sure it can be solely down to luck or fortune. Chelsea are always at the bottom of the injury table, and I'm not sure I can remember the last ligament injury (except Zouma) we had. Don't know what they're doing at Cobham, but they seem to have the recovery/workload part of training down.
 
It's true that we've had far fewer lengthy injuries to other title contenders, but this has been the case for so many seasons that I'm not sure it can be solely down to luck or fortune. Chelsea are always at the bottom of the injury table, and I'm not sure I can remember the last ligament injury (except Zouma) we had. Don't know what they're doing at Cobham, but they seem to have the recovery/workload part of training down.
Conte is huge into nutrition, sports science, and specific training methods that prevent injuries. Being a former player really helps in this regards, he's said so himself numerous times.
 
Conte is huge into nutrition, sports science, and specific training methods that prevent injuries. Being a former player really helps in this regards, he's said so himself numerous times.

The injury thing started long before Conte came along though. We just seem to have a really incredible medical/training team/facilities.
 
The injury thing started long before Conte came along though. We just seem to have a really incredible medical/training team/facilities.
True. We also don't seem to buy softies who get injured often but rather big, strong players who can take punishment. Even our flair players like Hazard and Willian are solid and sturdy and very rarely get injured.
 
Conte is huge into nutrition, sports science, and specific training methods that prevent injuries. Being a former player really helps in this regards, he's said so himself numerous times.
If I'm not completely off my rocker this has been going on for longer than Conte though. It seems to be ages ago that we've had anything close to an injury crisis or anything of the like. Big injuries seem fairly rare - before Zouma the only major injuries I can recall are Azpilicueta damaging a ligament in his knee, and before that perhaps one of Essien's knee injuries. We've been great at the injury bit for a long time. Might be a specific type of grass at Cobham that is easy on the knees or something!

EDIT: Doh. What Kentonio said.