Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

So do we want Wolves to win today? The only way they go ahead of us is by us getting less than 5 points. I think if we get that we're missing out anyway.

Is it not better having Wolves win for pressure on Chelsea?
 
Our win last night was definitely laboured. We may have had 22 shots, but how many were actual genuine chances? The goal aside, very few, if any. We struggled to create.

Side to side passing and the occasional cross into the box/header over the bar isn't my idea of a vibrant, dynamic performance.
Giroud had 3 clear chances
Pulisic hit the bar and had another 1 vs 1 saved.
We had plenty of chances for more goals. Theres been games where weve had a lot of possesion and not created much but yesterday wasnt one of them.
 
So do we want Wolves to win today? The only way they go ahead of us is by us getting less than 5 points. I think if we get that we're missing out anyway.

Is it not better having Wolves win for pressure on Chelsea?
Definitely want Wolves to have something to play for in the final game.
 
So do we want Wolves to win today? The only way they go ahead of us is by us getting less than 5 points. I think if we get that we're missing out anyway.

Is it not better having Wolves win for pressure on Chelsea?
Lmfao why would you want another team to pressure us when we are ahead of you. Thats just putting more pressure on you.
 
So do we want Wolves to win today? The only way they go ahead of us is by us getting less than 5 points. I think if we get that we're missing out anyway.

Is it not better having Wolves win for pressure on Chelsea?
Agreed, we want Wolves to be as competitive as possible going into that last match with Chelsea.
 
I mean we have played 8 games since the restart, and won 6 of them. We're hardly bottom of the form table.

Of course, but if you were to play at the level you did yesterday against Liverpool and Wolves you would struggle.
 
So do we want Wolves to win today? The only way they go ahead of us is by us getting less than 5 points. I think if we get that we're missing out anyway.

Is it not better having Wolves win for pressure on Chelsea?
I do. We need Wolves to have something to play for. If Chelsea do drop points to Liverpool and we win our next 2 we might need Wolves to do us a favour last game of the season.
A draw could do us with a Wolves win might be a realistic scenario. Otherwise its just down to us with no net in case of a feck up
 
I mean we have played 8 games since the restart, and won 6 of them. We're hardly bottom of the form table.
Feck knows how you won 6 of them would be my argument.
Its all very scambley. You lack a lot of authority.
 
Lmfao why would you want another team to pressure us when we are ahead of you. Thats just putting more pressure on you.
Because they play you in the last match and you can't both win that..

Put it this way - for both you and Wolves to finish above us it would likely mean Wolves have to win all their remaining games which means you'd lose your last one which in a way would help us anyway. There's far more chance of a Wolves win on the last day benefiting us than there is of a Chelsea win benefiting us. So anything which keeps Wolves competitive for that match is a bonus for us.
 
Wolves strike me as a team that doesn't start playing like they're on the beach and much like Southampton will turn up against Chelsea regardless. For that reason, a Burnley win please.
 
I kinda see Ole making some of the same mistakes Lampard has since the restart - namely a lack of squad rotation & inefficient use of subs.

Lampard played Kante for every minute of the restart until he finally broke down vs. Watford - this after having an attenuated pre-restart training period. Pulisic & Willian have played huge minutes as well. I would be worried for United that something similar may happen (and it may have started already with Shaw going off).

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and it's hard to have perspective when every point matters, but I really think we should have rotated vs. Watford for instance and you should have rotated against Bournemouth. It'll be interesting to see what lineups come out for the FA Cup semi; for me I'd hope for Chelsea to play a weakened side as securing CL is far more important IMO.
Shaw rolled his ankle against Southampton, it wasn't a muscle injury. But you are right, the fatigue did look like it caught up with us last game. I expect Solskjaer will rotate a bit more in the next few games.
 
Of course, but if you were to play at the level you did yesterday against Liverpool and Wolves you would struggle.

That would require Liverpool and Wolves to sit back and park the bus like Norwich, which they won't do. It's a different proposition all together, so we likely won't play like we did last night against them.
 
Seems straightforward to me.

3/1. Place a €1 bet, win €3. Or in my case, lose €1.

I don't understand America's -200, +500 thing.

America's thing is essentially ensure that $100 is always the common denominator / reference point. If the odds are minus something (e.g. -200), then you have to bet $200 to win $100 back on top of your stake. If they're plus something (e.g. +500), then you bet $100 to win $500 plus your stake. You can also then just whack two zeros off the ends to have it easily digestible: +2800 becomes 28:1, -470 becomes 1:4.7.

Shaw rolled his ankle against Southampton, it wasn't a muscle injury. But you are right, the fatigue did look like it caught up with us last game. I expect Solskjaer will rotate a bit more in the next few games.

Ah gotcha, my mistake. I do think the point stands though (plus ankle sprains are more likely when the ligaments lose elasticity from overuse). Didn't see the incident though so might be irrelevant either way.
 
Feck knows how you won 6 of them would be my argument.
Its all very scambley. You lack a lot of authority.

I wouldn't even disagree necessarily that we have lacked control and authority in our games, but we have still won 6 out of the last 8 - two of those being City at home and Leicester away, so ..
 
Our win against Norwich was anything but a laboured one. 22 shots to 2, 6-0 on target, 70% possession to 30%. That's more like failing to convert your chances than hanging on under pressure. Norwich spent majority of the game with 10 men in their 18yard box, something they've not thought to throughtout the season until they got relegated.
I've also recently seen high flying United struggle against this same Norwich team even with 10 players.

Also the overrating of Wolves is something else on here. They may well go on and beat us on at the Bridge, that's football but let's see if they can go past Burnley first.

Chelsea had all that possession and shots but how many were clear cut? Giroud had a few chances but most of them were him under pressure and/or they came to him when they had bounced off someone else.

When watching the Norwich game, apart from two 10 minute spells, Chelsea played at a pedestrian speed and I would say at a level that was similar to the last 60 minutes against Palace and Sheff Utd. The only way Chelsea got away with it was due to Norwich having no desire to do anything other than prevent a hammering.

For me, Chelsea are in a very tricky position. I can really see something like this happening:

Wolves beat Burnley
Utd beat Palace
Sheff Utd beat Leicester

Wolves beat Palace
Chelsea draw with the Dippers
Utd beat WHU
Leicester draw with Spurs

That would leave it as:

3rd - Utd - 65 points
4th - Chelsea 64 points
5th - Wolves 61 points
6th - Leicester 60 points

So, yes Leicester would be out of it and Utd will be qualified by the last game. That however means a play off between you and Wolves. Personally, I see Wolves winning that one as they are a better side than Sheff Utd and they gave Chelsea a right tonking. Only way I see Chelsea getting CL is if they beat the Dippers. I have a draw for that one as Chelsea have given them a couple of games this season. However, I do not see Chelsea winning it. The only way I see Chelsea getting CL is if Wolves fail to beat Burnley.
 
Wolves strike me as a team that doesn't start playing like they're on the beach and much like Southampton will turn up against Chelsea regardless. For that reason, a Burnley win please.
I think the odds of us missing out at Wolves' expense is so incredibly low. Wolves being top 4, United being specifically fifth and Chelsea/Leicester being sixth seems virtually zero. I guess the wheels completely go off for that to happen.
 
Chelsea had all that possession and shots but how many were clear cut? Giroud had a few chances but most of them were him under pressure and/or they came to him when they had bounced off someone else.

When watching the Norwich game, apart from two 10 minute spells, Chelsea played at a pedestrian speed and I would say at a level that was similar to the last 60 minutes against Palace and Sheff Utd. The only way Chelsea got away with it was due to Norwich having no desire to do anything other than prevent a hammering.

For me, Chelsea are in a very tricky position. I can really see something like this happening:

Wolves beat Burnley
Utd beat Palace
Sheff Utd beat Leicester

Wolves beat Palace
Chelsea draw with the Dippers
Utd beat WHU
Leicester draw with Spurs

That would leave it as:

3rd - Utd - 65 points
4th - Chelsea 64 points
5th - Wolves 61 points
6th - Leicester 60 points

So, yes Leicester would be out of it and Utd will be qualified by the last game. That however means a play off between you and Wolves. Personally, I see Wolves winning that one as they are a better side than Sheff Utd and they gave Chelsea a right tonking. Only way I see Chelsea getting CL is if they beat the Dippers. I have a draw for that one as Chelsea have given them a couple of games this season. However, I do not see Chelsea winning it. The only way I see Chelsea getting CL is if Wolves fail to beat Burnley.

So you think Chelsea have no hope at home against a team we put 5 past this season already without our two best players? :nervous:

Also, given the absurd fixture congestion, why would we play at anything besides a pedestrian speed once it became clear Norwich offered no tangible threat to our goal? Seems to me that managing workloads and avoiding injury should be more of a priority over running up the score.
 
So you think Chelsea have no hope at home against a team we put 5 past this season already without our two best players? :nervous:

Also, given the absurd fixture congestion, why would we play at anything besides a pedestrian speed once it became clear Norwich offered no tangible threat to our goal? Seems to me that managing workloads and avoiding injury should be more of a priority over running up the score.

Whenever I have seen Chelsea against well organised teams since November they have folded like a house of cards or really, really struggled at the slightest application of pressure. Look at what Sheff Utd did.

Yes, Chelsea did beat Wolves, but that was like what, Gameday 6? Wolves at that point were also struggling as they had to play 6 qualifying games in the Ropey League. People forget about their slow start due to the amount of games they had to play in pre-season.

Anyhow, for me Wolves are the worst sort of matchup for Chelsea; organised, quick/deadly on the break and have three shit houses in their back line that will nullify Giroud then bully Willian/Pulisic/Kovacic/Mount etc. For me, Chelsea have more chance of beating the Dippers than Wolves as at least the Dippers will allow Chelsea to play their own game. Wolves will not.
 
I think the odds of us missing out at Wolves' expense is so incredibly low. Wolves being top 4, United being specifically fifth and Chelsea/Leicester being sixth seems virtually zero. I guess the wheels completely go off for that to happen.
I keep seeing everyone writing off their chances, it's a bit odd. They are currently 8 points behind Chelsea, win tonight and that would be 5. Chelsea then play Liverpool & Wolves play Palace at home. It could well be the winner of the Wolves vs Chelsea game gets 3rd/4th depending on what us & Leicester do. If Wolves win tonight they will feel right in the mix and rightly so unfortunately.
 
Whenever I have seen Chelsea against well organised teams since November they have folded like a house of cards or really, really struggled at the slightest application of pressure. Look at what Sheff Utd did.

Yes, Chelsea did beat Wolves, but that was like what, Gameday 6? Wolves at that point were also struggling as they had to play 6 qualifying games in the Ropey League. People forget about their slow start due to the amount of games they had to play in pre-season.

Anyhow, for me Wolves are the worst sort of matchup for Chelsea; organised, quick/deadly on the break and have three shit houses in their back line that will nullify Giroud then bully Willian/Pulisic/Kovacic/Mount etc. For me, Chelsea have more chance of beating the Dippers than Wolves as at least the Dippers will allow Chelsea to play their own game. Wolves will not.

Chelsea struggle against well organised teams that sit deep, like SHU did. If Wolves need something from the game they'll have to attack; when Chelsea have space to exploit our attack does well.

We very well might lose the game but it's absurd to say we have no chance in it.
 
The least nerve-racking proposition is if Wolves lose today, which would almost entirely throw them out of the CL race. If there are four contenders (Chelsea, Wolves, Leicester, and United) for two spots till the last match of the season, the pressure would be extreme.

Wolves may play with better freedom on the last day against Chelsea if they have already been eliminated from the equation, and not necessarily if they are under an immense pressure to beat Chelsea for the last CL spot.
 
Can it be two finals in the end? Us vs Leicester for 1 spot and Chelsea vs Wolves for the other?
With draws it might complicate things though.
 
I keep seeing everyone writing off their chances, it's a bit odd. They are currently 8 points behind Chelsea, win tonight and that would be 5. Chelsea then play Liverpool & Wolves play Palace at home. It could well be the winner of the Wolves vs Chelsea game gets 3rd/4th depending on what us & Leicester do. If Wolves win tonight they will feel right in the mix and rightly so unfortunately.
Oh Wolves are definitely in with a shout. I am struggling to see the scenario that has them just pipping us to 4th, so I want to keep them interested for the Chelsea match.
 
Personally think Wolves have left it a bit too late, their goal difference is not great (compared to United and Leicester) and those two recent defeats really harmed them. They might even be thinking now that the EL will be the best route into the champions league.
 
I am going to predict what will happen to some degree of certainty
United beat palace
Leceister beat Sheffield
Wolves beat Burnley

Chelsea draw Liverpool
Leceister draw Spurs
United beat westham
Wolves beat Palace

Going into the final day,
United 65
Chelsea 64
Leceister 62
Wolves 61

United needing a draw
Chelsea needing a win but will do with a draw if united dont loose
Leceister needing a win
Wolves needing a win and hoping united at least get a draw. This dpends on their goal difference.
The games will all end in a draw and united chelsea qualify
 
If Wolves win their next 2 and Chelsea don’t beat Liverpool, then a wolves win in the last game takes them above Chelsea.

Take out of it the fact that I feel sick with nerves about whether or not we’ll make it. The fact that there are 4 teams for 2 spots and those 4 all play each other on the last game... It’s so exciting!
 
Oh Wolves are definitely in with a shout. I am struggling to see the scenario that has them just pipping us to 4th, so I want to keep them interested for the Chelsea match.
Exactly, the only realistic way for Wolves to finish above us probably requires them to win every game and finish on 64 points (thus beating Chelsea), if they do the next best thing and finish on 62 points we'd only need another 3 points from our last 3 to finish above them (assuming they didn't overturn our +15 GD advantage).

Our chances of finishing in the top 4 are much more dependent on finishing above Chelsea than they are Wolves, we need Wolves to stay competitive.
 
Chelsea struggle against well organised teams that sit deep, like SHU did. If Wolves need something from the game they'll have to attack; when Chelsea have space to exploit our attack does well.

We very well might lose the game but it's absurd to say we have no chance in it.

I didn't say no chance, instead I indicated 'little chance'. You are right to say that Chelsea can sit back but I just do not see you doing it. This is because:

A) You're really bad at defending. 10th for goals conceded in total.
B) Lampard appears to be one of those managers that always wants his teams on the front foot.
C) This season Chelsea are something like 2nd or 3rd worst at conceding against the counter. That tells me Chelsea have systemic problems with their shape. For me, this is not something they will remedy in one game, especially when this game includes Jota, Troare and Jimenez who all love to spring from deep.
D) 1st/2nd worst at conceding from set pieces.
 
I am going to predict what will happen to some degree of certainty
United beat palace
Leceister beat Sheffield
Wolves beat Burnley

Chelsea draw Liverpool
Leceister draw Spurs
United beat westham
Wolves beat Palace

Going into the final day,
United 65
Chelsea 64
Leceister 62
Wolves 61

United needing a draw
Chelsea needing a win but will do with a draw if united dont loose
Leceister needing a win
Wolves needing a win and hoping united at least get a draw. This dpends on their goal difference.
The games will all end in a draw and united chelsea qualify


Think you've been quite generous to Leicester with them predictions, but i suppose their luck has to change soon.
 
Exactly, the only realistic way for Wolves to finish above us probably requires them to win every game and finish on 64 points, if they do the next best thing and finish on 62 points we'd only need another 3 points from our last 3 to finish above them (assuming they didn't overturn our +15 GD advantage).

Our chances of finishing in the top 4 are much more dependent on finishing above Chelsea than they are Wolves, we need Wolves to stay competitive.

True. Utd only need an absolute maximum of 5 points to finish in the top 4 in my opinion. Only way this chances is if Chelsea beat the Dippers.
 
Our win last night was definitely laboured. We may have had 22 shots, but how many were actual genuine chances? The goal aside, very few, if any. We struggled to create.

Side to side passing and the occasional cross into the box/header over the bar isn't my idea of a vibrant, dynamic performance.
One thing's for sure, you're going to have to improve a heck of a lot by the time you play Liverpool and Wolves. Liverpool have a good enough defence to handle anything that you may throw at them while also imposing themselves on to you. They can also counterpress you in to the ground, especially if you play Jorginho in midfield. While Wolves can do what Norwich tried to do but several orders of magnitude better, while also having serious threats on the counter in the form of Traore, Jota, Jimenez and now Podence.

Yesterday was dire stuff and if that was coming from Utd, these boards and social media would have been seething at the performance.
 
So you think Chelsea have no hope at home against a team we put 5 past this season already without our two best players? :nervous:

Also, given the absurd fixture congestion, why would we play at anything besides a pedestrian speed once it became clear Norwich offered no tangible threat to our goal? Seems to me that managing workloads and avoiding injury should be more of a priority over running up the score.
Wolves will be tough but i think some are going a little bit OTT in their assertions that we will lose. I get the reasoning, its because they want it to happen and are almost sure it will; in order to assure themselves that they will make top 4

Myself I am almost certain we are going to be top 4... because i really dont think Wolves are beating us, we need 4 pts right now to get top 4. If other results went in our favour, that will of course drop. We are right in the driving seat with it in our hands
 
Wolves will be tough but i think some are going a little bit OTT in their assertions that we will lose. I get the reasoning, its because they want it to happen and are almost sure it will; in order to assure themselves that they will make top 4

Myself I am almost certain we are going to be top 4... because i really dont think Wolves are beating us, we need 4 pts right now to get top 4. If other results went in our favour, that will of course drop. We are right in the driving seat with it in our hands
Isn't this just a big contradiction?
 
Isn't this just a big contradiction?
No, i dont think Wolves will beat us despite being a tough team, and i do not understand the almost certainty on this forum that they will win. Its because, IMO, your fans of course are convinced it is happening, and really want it to happen to solidify your place in top 4.... but i dont think a lot of your fans really are as certain as they make out.

I think its more a way of convincing/reassuring yourselves you will be top 4. Like a coping mechanism so to speak If that makes any sense at all... ive no idea.
 
Chelsea struggle against well organised teams that sit deep, like SHU did. If Wolves need something from the game they'll have to attack; when Chelsea have space to exploit our attack does well.

We very well might lose the game but it's absurd to say we have no chance in it.
Wolves don't play in the manner that you're insinuating here. They sit back, allow teams to have the ball and counter the feck out of the opposition. It's literally been their entire MO in the games they've played against us, which often led to some absolute stinkers and bore fests.
 
I didn't say no chance, instead I indicated 'little chance'. You are right to say that Chelsea can sit back but I just do not see you doing it. This is because:

A) You're really bad at defending. 10th for goals conceded in total.
B) Lampard appears to be one of those managers that always wants his teams on the front foot.
C) This season Chelsea are something like 2nd or 3rd worst at conceding against the counter. That tells me Chelsea have systemic problems with their shape. For me, this is not something they will remedy in one game, especially when this game includes Jota, Troare and Jimenez who all love to spring from deep.
D) 1st/2nd worst at conceding from set pieces.

I mean, you said "The only way I see Chelsea getting CL is if Wolves fail to beat Burnley". That would indicate that we have no chance in this game and it's all down to what Wolves do tonight.

To go through the rest,

A. Sure, and Wolves are 8th in goals scored. It's not like they're some sort of offensive juggernaut.
B. Don't really know what this has to do with anything and I don't even think it's accurate - Lampard this year has shown a high degree of flexibility (almost too much at times) when it comes to adjusting tactics based on the opposition. We readily conceded possession to City, for instance. We gave Arsenal all the ball by trying to match their 3ATB during the smash and grab at the Emirates.
C. We've conceded the most goals against on the counter along with Villa. This has routinely happened against poor sides when our finishing lets us down and both fullbacks push up, leaving us with Jorginho to cover acres of space. Kante will likely be fit again and we'll likely sit much deeper if all we have to do is avoid a loss - we won't be leaving massive swathes of space if a draw gets us in. Obviously a concern but not some sort of death knell considering the most likely scenario going in.
D. We're 6th in set play goals conceded. Wolves are 10th in set pieces scored. It's again not a massive strength for them.
 
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Wolves don't play in the manner that you're insinuating here. They sit back, allow teams to have the ball and counter the feck out of the opposition. It's literally been their entire MO in the games they've played against us, which often led to some absolute stinkers and bore fests.

They'll play in that manner if they need a win to secure the CL is my point. The fact that it's not a matter of routine for them is even more encouraging from a Chelsea perspective. Alternatively, a bore fest that gets us top 4 is perfectly fine if you ask me.