Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

[Jericho]

My issue with the whole thing is why are we even in this position after the money spent, the cold reality even if we win all 3 games we will only have a win rate of 50% seriously concerning, the more likely outcome is we may win 2 draw or lose 1 that’s united and finish with 65 points, put this in perspective David Moyes got sacked for 63 points and 7th place, the cold hard facts the league has two outstanding managers and we dint have one and as much as I truly love Ole, his CV is not united class and even 3rd or 4th is seriously masking some seriously poor results in his first full season, simple he qualifies for CL he gets another season, he doesn’t go get Julian Nagelsman or Poch or a top Manager like Tuchal who will be sacked if PSG fail again in CL , now if Ole gets 4th and wins either the EL or Fa Cup then he should get a 1 year extension and £150m budget plus player sales with a view that anything less than 80 points and a top 3 position will result in the sack I’m fed up of us accepting mediocrity, we are and will always be united and therefore must act like it in the boardroom as well as on the pitch !!!!

This post would make more sense back in January. Yes, it goes without saying that we've spent a lot of money been shite for many years now, and however many points we end up with are less than what we should be getting.

But whether or not you believe we've truly turned a corner, the fact is we've been much better since Bruno joined. Most of the players have improved and the games have actually been enjoyable to watch. And even though we drew yesterday and were poor at times, we created more than enough chances to win that game and it was still an infinitely better performance than the crap we've seen over the years.

Yes, a 50% win rate for Man Utd is not good. But if we do win the remaining 3 games like you mention, 10 of those will have come in the last 14 games. So to me it's a weird time to make a post like this. Like I said, whether or not you believe we've truly turned a corner, on the face of it things are looking up right now.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Chelsea (cannot) finish level on points with United or Leicester due to goal difference, which is a huge factor, Chelsea literally HAVE to win against Liverpool and Wolves, there's no room for error.

With Chelseas defence currently I don't think they can handle Salah, Mane and Firmino.

as of right now, we dont. Unless you mean should you and leicester win all your remaining games?? Which isnt happening

 

[bosnian_red]

as of right now, we dont. Unless you mean should you and leicester win all your remaining games?? Which isnt happening

4 points from those games guarantees top 4 for you anyway. 3 points leaves it open for a potential drop on GD.

 

[TheRedHearted]

If we beat Crystal Palace & West Ham (Very likely) and Leicester draw against Sheffield United & Tottenham (Very possible) we will have CL before even facing Leicester.

No need to panic. Roll up the sleeves and get back to business. Southampton are a strong team on a great run.

That’s the United way. Keep our heads up. We didn’t win the game but we also didn’t lose it.

 

[VictoriaRed]

I hope in the run-in our leaders, or leaders we didn't think were leaders, emerge because against Southampton, my gosh we lacked leadership. Pogba was a 2/10, Bruno was a 6/10, maybe. Maguire was at fault for the goal...feck me!

 

[sewey89]

I think a point from their last 2 will do it now for Chelsea.

Im still confident that we’ll get there. But this place will go into complete meltdown if Leicester best Sheff Utd tomorrow, regardless of our result later on.

 

[Riz]

I think a point from their last 2 will do it now for Chelsea.

Im still confident that we’ll get there. But this place will go into complete meltdown if Leicester best Sheff Utd tomorrow, regardless of our result later on.

Yep with how its set up now Leicester only need 3 points maximum from Sheff U and Spurs to ensure it goes down to the last day. As bad as they seem to be without key players - a one off match at the King Power to decide who gets CL will be horrifically nervy.

I hope Sheff U and Spurs can both find ways to get at least a draw so that if we can do our job vs Palace and West Ham we'll be out of sight last day and can relax.

As you mention if Leicester secure those 3 points tomorrow before we play then we'll be right up against it vs Palace after only 2 days rest and our momentum nulled.

 

[sewey89]

Yep with how its set up now Leicester only need 3 points maximum from Sheff U and Spurs to ensure it goes down to the last day. As bad as they seem to be without key players - a one off match at the King Power to decide who gets CL will be horrifically nervy.

I hope Sheff U and Spurs can both find ways to get at least a draw so that if we can do our job vs Palace and West Ham we'll be out of sight last day and can relax.

As you mention if Leicester secure those 3 points tomorrow before we play then we'll be right up against it vs Palace after only 2 days rest and our momentum nulled.

Yeah. But on the flip side, if Leicester lose and we beat Palace, we have the chance of going into the west ham game knowing that a win will secure CL football. It's so tight at this stage. Any slip ups at this stage are going to be maximised.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I have Leicester drawing against Sheff U and losing against Spurs away. If that happens we'd have to monumentally feck it up to not make top 4.

Leicester's big chance is tomorrow as they play first, "if" they can beat Sheffield United, that will pile the pressure on us and we haven't done great under pressure this season. Anything less than a win for Leicester tomorrow and United dropping points means they are done.

 

[Infra-red]

I think a point from their last 2 will do it now for Chelsea.

Im still confident that we’ll get there. But this place will go into complete meltdown if Leicester best Sheff Utd tomorrow, regardless of our result later on.

Have to assume that Leicester will win their next two. They may not, but it is eminently possible that they do and we shouldn't get up in arms about it. Our result vs Saints may well have buoyed them - they are still ahead of us, there are only three games to go and they get to play us in the decider in their home stadium.

We need three wins, starting with Palace. No more mistakes.

 

[fps]

If we could take another of Chelsea and Leicester's positions and points, but also their final fixtures, would we do it?
To clarify, would points in hand be better than not at this stage?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If we could take another of Chelsea and Leicester's positions and points, but also their final fixtures, would we do it?
To clarify, would points in hand be better than not at this stage?

feck no, Leicester have the same points as us and miles worse fixtures so why would we swap "same points for tougher fixtures?"

 

[Siorac]

If we could take another of Chelsea and Leicester's positions and points, but also their final fixtures, would we do it?
To clarify, would points in hand be better than not at this stage?

I'd definitely take Chelsea's position. They're third, ahead on points of both of their rivals who play each other on the last day. Sure, Liverpool away is not an enviable fixture but if they beat Wolves at home they're pretty much a certainty to make it.

 

[sincher]

That Southampton goal was *SO ANNOYING*

 

[Infra-red]

If we could take another of Chelsea and Leicester's positions and points, but also their final fixtures, would we do it?
To clarify, would points in hand be better than not at this stage?

Probably not. Chelsea have Liverpool and Wolves - we don't have a great record vs either side in recent times. Leicester have Spurs away, a game we have dropped points in since the restart.

It would be nice if the decider against Leicester was at Old Trafford instead of the King Power, though - that is going to be an unbelievably nervy game, with CL football, a third of our commercial revenues and the Sancho deal likely all on the line for 90 minutes. A game that not only makes or breaks this season, but perhaps even next season, too.

 

[WeePat]

I think the issue is for Leicester they have key injuries, and they've also lost their second best CB due to the straight red in the last match day.

Sheffield United is their real test, I think more than anything that will be the biggest test for Leicester, Tottenham will play in typical Mourinho style, and sitting deep against Vardy I just think he's not as effective, they really miss Maddison too.

Spurs I really see Leicester dropping points, Sheffield United is where they really need 3 points, even if they have to win ugly, they need to salvage something at this point.

If they don't get a result at Sheffield United I see them just falling flat at Spurs knowing how difficult the Spurs game will be (it's away for Leicester)

I personally feel for Leicester it will be WDD, but if they don't win at Sheffield United again I think it's not tenable for them if United win at Palace.

Same with United, if they can get three points from Palace that's a big step, because I think momentum will help with the West Ham game, but I think the Palace game will show the resolve of the United squad in general.

The big games for me isn't Liverpool Chelsea, or Wolves Chelsea. It's Sheffield United vs Leicester, and United vs Palace.

I'd say a point against Sheff Utd does nothing to help them really. It puts extra pressure on them to get 3 points away to Spurs. I'd agree that they have to win tonight.

Their form stretching back to pre-lockdown is 1 win (and 3 defeats) in 7 and 3 wins (and 6 defeats) in 14. I have a hard time believing, with a depleted team, having just been blown away by Bournemouth, they're suddenly going to unbeaten against two top 7 teams plus Spurs away in the final 3 games when the pressure is truly on.

It's why I've woken up feeling relaxed this morning. I'm almost certain United will finish 3rd and Leicester won't win another game this season.

 

[cyberman]

I'd definitely take Chelsea's position. They're third, ahead on points of both of their rivals who play each other on the last day. Sure, Liverpool away is not an enviable fixture but if they beat Wolves at home they're pretty much a certainty to make it.

Not for me. Chelsea have to win away against the champions or risk having a last game play off v one of the in form sides in the league whos strengths match perfectly with their wraknesses.
Plus I really hate Wolves. Theyre Burnley on steroids.
There isnt really much difference in our situations, we just have lesser sides to play

 

[El Zoido]

It’s difficult to keep winning, we started from so far back. Every team will drop points at some point of the season, drawing against Southampton was frustrating but they’re a good side. Leicester have been garbage since January yet are still there. We keep putting ourselves in a position where we absolutely cannot afford even a draw, but at least with this team now I think next season we’ll keep pace better and won’t be in a situation where we can go on an 11 game unbeaten league streak (W7D4) and still not be secured in a CL place.

 

[fps]

Probably not. Chelsea have Liverpool and Wolves - we don't have a great record vs either side in recent times. Leicester have Spurs away, a game we have dropped points in since the restart.

It would be nice if the decider against Leicester was at Old Trafford instead of the King Power, though - that is going to be an unbelievably nervy game, with CL football, a third of our commercial revenues and the Sancho deal likely all on the line for 90 minutes. A game that not only makes or breaks this season, but perhaps even next season, too.

I really don’t want it to come down to that final match but of course it will. Just there have been a couple of missed CL qualification opportunities in the last few years where the team has buckled.

 

[WeePat]

Not for me. Chelsea have to win away against the champions or risk having a last game play off v one of the in form sides in the league whos strengths match perfectly with their wraknesses.
Plus I really hate Wolves. Theyre Burnley on steroids.
There isnt really much difference in our situations, we just have lesser sides to play

Wolves' last 3 games;

LLW

Prior to our win last night, results-wise Chelsea and Wolves were level in the form table. We're obviously now ahead having played game more.

 

[cyberman]

Wolves' last 3 games;

LLW

Prior to our win last night, results-wise Chelsea and Wolves were level in the form table. We're obviously now ahead having played game more.

3 defeats in 16 in all comps from what i see, another one was a nothing second leg when they were already through.

 

[Matriac]

Chelsea (cannot) finish level on points with United or Leicester due to goal difference, which is a huge factor, Chelsea literally HAVE to win against Liverpool and Wolves, there's no room for error.

With Chelseas defence currently I don't think they can handle Salah, Mane and Firmino.

Nah, a draw against Liverpool would be a very good result for Chelsea. If they draw there and win against Wolves it would put them on 67 points.

If United and Leicester win their next two games (unlikely for Leicester) it would put them on 65 points before the final day, so if we draw against each other we will both be behind Chelsea by 1 point, if either of us win we will pass Chelsea but they would still get 4th.

 

[WeePat]

3 defeats in 16 in all comps from what i see, another one was a nothing second leg when they were already through.

In fairness, I hadn't looked to pre-lockdown results.

They're obviously a dangerous side. We needed a 90-something minute Hazard goal to rescue a equaliser in this fixture last season.

They did lose to Sheff Utd and Arsenal though in their last 3 games, so I'm not necessarily running scared of them.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I can't wait for our next game. These permutations and combinations regarding the results is doing my head in. It is completely in our hands and we just have to focus on winning our next match. The only thing that troubles me is that we haven't been in the top 4 since September and the first chance we had to get there was blown in quite painful fashion.

 

[Riz]

Yeah. But on the flip side, if Leicester lose and we beat Palace, we have the chance of going into the west ham game knowing that a win will secure CL football. It's so tight at this stage. Any slip ups at this stage are going to be maximised.

Well that would depend on Leicester also not winning against Spurs on Sunday which, granted, is a very real possibility with their form at the moment.

 

[sewey89]

Well that would depend on Leicester also not winning against Spurs on Sunday which, granted, is a very real possibility with their form at the moment.

Yep, as somebody said earlier, we really just need to forget other teams, win our games and if they drop points..bonus!

 

[groovyalbert]

I am a little concerned we may be running out of gas at the most important moment. Seems to happen over the last 4 seasons or so, we get to the most important moment and just fall flat. Happened under Jose in both of his full seasons, and with LvG during his last season with us. And this hasn't happened due to us not having anything to play for - any sustained run of form would have seen us get into the top 4 in 15/16 and last season.

I'm not saying this is definitely going to happen/is happening and I fully think this team is capable of winning its last few games, but our key players looked knackered on Monday, and without Bruno or Pogba running the show, we are seriously lacking in our ability to control games.

 

[Judge Red]

I’d be more confident about going into the Leicester match needing a win than being able to settle for a draw.

We don’t have a bus to park anymore.

 

[DevilRed]

I am a little concerned we may be running out of gas at the most important moment. Seems to happen over the last 4 seasons or so, we get to the most important moment and just fall flat. Happened under Jose in both of his full seasons, and with LvG during his last season with us. And this hasn't happened due to us not having anything to play for - any sustained run of form would have seen us get into the top 4 in 15/16 and last season.

I'm not saying this is definitely going to happen/is happening and I fully think this team is capable of winning its last few games, but our key players looked knackered on Monday, and without Bruno or Pogba running the show, we are seriously lacking in our ability to control games.

Its fecking deja vu. It started in the villa match too, which is whats worrying. The legs were starting to go at the beginning before their press finally stopped for a while and we won that lucky penalty.

The energy levels are clearly gone. Lads running on fumes again. I swear to you this just doesn't happen to any other top four team in such an extreme manner.

Ole needs to trust his squad players sometimes. It wouldn't hurt to put Mctominay and Fred in midfield to freshen up and have runners do the dirty work for Pogba and Bruno. Let Brugba be the attacking midfielders alongside Rashford. Greenwood needs to be dropped because he is clearly knackered and can't be relied upon every match as a teenager.

Nonetheless, its frightening that we have chosen the most crucial part of the season to have fitness issues yet again. Its why I'm so pessimistic on our top four chances.

I can see us dropping points against palace. Then having to pray and hope that other teams take points off our rivals.

 

[Nick.]

Its fecking deja vu. It started in the villa match too, which is whats worrying. The legs were starting to go at the beginning before their press finally stopped for a while and we won that lucky penalty.

The energy levels are clearly gone. Lads running on fumes again. I swear to you this just doesn't happen to any other top four team in such an extreme manner.

Ole needs to trust his squad players sometimes. It wouldn't hurt to put Mctominay and Fred in midfield to freshen up and have runners do the dirty work for Pogba and Bruno. Let Brugba be the attacking midfielders alongside Rashford. Greenwood needs to be dropped because he is clearly knackered and can't be relied upon every match as a teenager.

Nonetheless, its frightening that we have chosen the most crucial part of the season to have fitness issues yet again. Its why I'm so pessimistic on our top four chances.

I can see us dropping points against palace. Then having to pray and hope that other teams take points off our rivals.

I think it's not a coincidence it happens to us in the run-in twice in two seasons under Ole.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

That Southampton goal was *SO ANNOYING*

It literally just hit the fattest guy and went it. He only scored because he was so fat

 

[DevilRed]

I think it's not a coincidence it happens to us in the run-in twice in two seasons under Ole.

Don't you forget there was the whole speech about how fitness was going to be the focus. Our preseason was done to perfection and the players are ready for 60 games etc.

Thats kind of gone down the drain.

Its hard to put all the blame on Ole. I get it. We had the lockdown. Our key players spent LARGE swathes of the season injured. We probably never played our best eleven together until after the lockdown ended.

But Ole needs to rotate the squad. Especially at HOME to soton. We could have taken out Greenwood/Matic and put in McTominay and Fred to freshen up the team and add runners into the squad. Players that will do the dirty work for Pog and Bruno, whilst having the simple job of trying to find them with every pass they make.

Hindsight is 20/20 though. The selection and gameplan at palace may just define our entire season. Drop ANY points at palace and its likely we won't make top four.

Unless of course you want to play the Europa League lottery. Where anything can happen now that its single knockout. Not even two legs.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

The random calculations in this thread and assigning certain outcomes to games or reading anything into the scorelines of the last three games is amazing.

 

[DevilRed]

That Southampton goal was *SO ANNOYING*

fecking haven't been that angry in a while actually.

You could see it coming. Everybody could.

 

[sugar_kane]

I think it's not a coincidence it happens to us in the run-in twice in two seasons under Ole.

I don't think it's fair to compare the run in of last season to this one, it's apples and oranges in terms of context.

Also, they look nowhere near as fecked compared to same time last season - think it's due to the sheer amount of games in a short time after a long lay off.

He could do with rotating more, but undeniably the team are far fitter than they were this time last season.

 

[Reynoldo]

The random calculations in this thread and assigning certain outcomes to games or reading anything into the scorelines of the last three games is amazing.

I know, anything could happen and it could all change in an instant based on one random moment in any of those games. Impossible to call the outcome with any certainty

 

[Smithy89]

I have this sneaky feeling it's gonna be Wolves plus 1.

 

[Shane88]

2/9 to finish in the top 4.

3/1 to finish outside it.

 

[TheNewEra]

I have this sneaky feeling it's gonna be Wolves plus 1.

Wolves are 4% odds to finish in top 4.

 

[TMDaines]

Wolves are 4% odds to finish in top 4.

I do admire anyone who can you tell you that Wolves are going to be top 4 from here though, but doesn't have the foresight to tell you which of the three more likely clubs will join them!