Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

We should be finishing top 4 now. That last game vs Leicester could be meaningless if we win most of our games before as Chelsea/wolves/Leicester all have harder fixtures & our superior GD could prove vital.
 
Summit said:
Why 10 nil? 5 nil would do it as it stands now...but let's us not forget we could out score them a goal here and there leading up that game. 2 nil might be enough then
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He doesn’t understand that 5 goals to United on the last day takes 5 goals off Leicester’s GD.

Maths is hard.

Technically though even if we win all our games it’s not yet in our hands. I think 5-0 against Leicester isn’t enough to say we’ve got control over this.

That said I actually think we’ve got room to draw two games and still make top 4.

As things are panning out were on target by my reckoning and I was very generous to Leicester when making my prediction.
 
SirAnderson said:
And they could outscore us until our last match and lose against us but still have the better GD.
Its all hopes and what ifs, right now, but it's clear that they don't have it in them to win all games till us, and we have a better chance at winning all games, but as tonight clearly reminds us, it's never a guarantee.
So confident but not better by house on it.
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Yeah I know. But it is in our hands to go out and out score them to make sure we can overturn them with a couple of goals in our game. Not sure why people think 9 goals is a lot considering we gained 4 on them this game.
 
Summit said:
Yeah I know. But it is in our hands to go out and out score them to make sure we can overturn them with a couple of goals in our game. Not sure why people think 9 goals is a lot considering we gained 4 on them this game.
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True, but you can’t turn around and say something is in your hands when you require someone to do worse than you. It’s in their hands because it’s theirs to throw away.

Ultimately Leicester don’t need to do better than us to qualify and same to chelsea, United have to go out and do better than both, therefore it’s in those clubs hands, technically.
 
Berbasbullet said:
True, but you can’t turn around and say something is in your hands when you require someone to do worse than you. It’s in their hands because it’s theirs to throw away.

Ultimately Leicester don’t need to do better than us to qualify and same to chelsea, United have to go out and do better than both, therefore it’s in those clubs hands, technically.
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What? Why not? If they were 2 points in front it would be in our hands on the basis that if we match their results and beat them in our game, we go above them...ultimately relying on them doing worse than us.
 
Summit said:
Yeah I know. But it is in our hands to go out and out score them to make sure we can overturn them with a couple of goals in our game. Not sure why people think 9 goals is a lot considering we gained 4 on them this game.
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Because they lost this game and we won. If it’s to come down to goal difference they would have been matching our results, so they would also be adding to their tally at the same time as us. We’d need to double their output while getting the same amount of points.

Not impossible of course, but it is quite a task.
 
youngrell said:
Because they lost this game and we won. If it’s to come down to goal difference they would have been matching our results, so they would also be adding to their tally at the same time as us. We’d need to double their output while getting the same amount of points.

Not impossible of course, but it is quite a task.
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Exactly. Considering it isn't impossible makes it in our hands
 
Summit said:
What? Why not? If they were 2 points in front it would be in our hands on the basis that if we match their results and beat them in our game, we go above them...ultimately relying on them doing worse than us.
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I agree if it was 2 points behind then it would be in our hands because we would need to win all the games and badabing we are in the top 4, regardless of anything possible in the world.

But as it stands it’s 3 points and we literally just have to hope in this scenario that we out score them, therefore it’s not in our hands. Therefore it’s not completely in our control.
 
#07 said:
I wouldn't mind United taking a cheeky punt on Willian if Sancho's price is too high. Personally, I would love Greenwood to become a Mo Salah like goalscoring inside right. So I ain't that bothered about getting Sancho. Willian knows the league, he's very good on his day and like Ighalo he's of an age where he won't be a long term obstacle to Mason.

As for Chelsea I agree with you. They play some nice looking stuff at times but unlike their great sides they have a soft underbelly. City's bottle job doesn't cover that up. Also none of the signings they've made will address that. They seem to be stockpiling style but not steel.
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You’ll likely get slated for that opinion, but I think it’s reasonable. Willian is always useful, he’s got a good cross on him... dead balls are a good option too if Fernandes isn’t playing. On a free, we could get him to offer a still very young Greenwood, competition, relief, and an alternative style. He also wouldn’t be a massive hindrance to signing Sancho next Summer when his price dips a bit, we have established ourselves as a CL team again, and we have our match day revenue back.
 
Summit said:
Exactly. Considering it isn't impossible makes it in our hands
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So something not being impossible makes it in our hands? So the final day we lost to city and needed to win by 7-0 or whatever it was you considered to be in our hands?

Something to be in your hands = being in complete control of, it’s not about possible or impossible.
 
Berbasbullet said:
I agree if it was 2 points behind then it would be in our hands because we would need to win all the games and badabing we are in the top 4, regardless of anything possible in the world.

But as it stands it’s 3 points and we literally just have to hope in this scenario that we out score them, therefore it’s not in our hands. Therefore it’s not completely in our control.
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The other scenario isn't in completely our control either, mainly because Leicester would ne doing their upmost to not let is beat them.
 
Berbasbullet said:
So something not being impossible makes it in our hands? So the final day we lost to city and needed to win by 7-0 or whatever it was you considered to be in our hands?

Something to be in your hands = being in complete control of, it’s not about possible or impossible.
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If we had one game to go I would agree with you, but it is up to us to put score them now as much as possible. It is in our hands
 
Summit said:
The other scenario isn't in completely our control either, mainly because Leicester would ne doing their upmost to not let is beat them.
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Okay, you don’t understand my point, it might be my fault, life’s too short for this. Take it easy.
 
youngrell said:
Because they lost this game and we won. If it’s to come down to goal difference they would have been matching our results, so they would also be adding to their tally at the same time as us. We’d need to double their output while getting the same amount of points.

Not impossible of course, but it is quite a task.
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Hence why it doesn't make sense to say it's in our hands. It's more in their hands than it is in ours.
That doesn't mean we have better odds at coming in 3rd place than Leicester.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Okay, you don’t understand my point, it might be my fault, life’s too short for this. Take it easy.
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Why you getting upset over this? Just difference of opinions? Do you not like hearing things other than your opinion?
 
How have we all missed this?
Head-to-head records
If two or more clubs finish level in the table when competing for the title or European qualification, or when relegation is at stake, their records in the head-to-head matches will now be used to separate them.

In previous seasons, teams involved in these specific battles who finished with the same points total, goal difference and number of goals scored would be pitted against each other in a playoff.

But that extra match is now less likely.

In 2019/20 the team who have collected the most points in the head-to-head duels between the sides lying level on points, goal difference and number of goals scored, will take the highest finishing position, while the team with the fewest will take the lowest place.

If clubs still cannot be separated, the team who scored the most goals away from home in the head-to-head matches will get the highest position.

Only if the clubs remain level in the table after this will a playoff be arranged, at a neutral ground, with the format, timing and venue being determined by the Premier League Board.
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https://www.premierleague.com/news/1262217

We beat Chelsea twice, and beat leicester 1-0 at home. Table decided on head to head with games against each other.
 
SirAnderson said:
Hence why it doesn't make sense to say it's in our hands. It's more in their hands than it is in ours.
That doesn't mean we have better odds at coming in 3rd place than Leicester.
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Berbasbullet said:
Okay, you don’t understand my point, it might be my fault, life’s too short for this. Take it easy.
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Look at my last post. It's head to head to decide teams level on points. We win every game, we get top 4, simple as.
 
Summit said:
Exactly. Considering it isn't impossible makes it in our hands
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No it doesn’t, mate.

For something to be in your hands, it means that nothing can stop you so long as you win your games. Tagging on goal difference at the end means there are factors outside of our control which can decide our fate. It’s in Leicester’s hands because at the moment they have a significant advantage and if they were to win all their games there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

Your scenario only becomes likely (not guaranteed) if we get to the final day and goal difference has been reduced to 1 or 2.
 
Summit said:
Why you getting upset over this? Just difference of opinions? Do you not like hearing things other than your opinion?
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Don't see him being upset. Just a misunderstanding of the term "in our hands"
It's frustrating for me but we really majoring in minors here and should just be happy we have our best shot yet at 3rd place.
 
SirAnderson said:
Don't see him being upset. Just a misunderstanding of the term "in our hands"
It's frustrating for me but we really majoring in minors here and should just be happy we have our best shot yet at 3rd place.
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Yeah suppose. Let's hope form cobtinues. What will be, will be...
 
bosnian_red said:
Look at my last post. It's head to head to decide teams level on points. We win every game, we get top 4, simple as.
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Doesn't your post mean head to head is just a further tie breaker after goal difference, scored etc?
 
Summit said:
Yeah suppose. Let's hope form cobtinues. What will be, will be...
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Not upset at all dude, and agreed, I reckon we will do it and I imagine by next match day we will all agree it’s in our hands anyway.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Yes but if it goes down to GD it means that they have won 5/6 or 4/5 or whatever it is to match our points tally, therefore GD still most likely won’t be achievable.
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Nope, if we outscore them by an average of 2 goals every match week, we will qualify.
 
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