This is pretty classic wishful thinking. I really can't buy into the idea that a team who don't have UCL football and are on course to finished 6th are a more likely destination than Real, Barcelona, City, PSG or Chelsea who all have shown time and time again that they can and will outspend us when it comes down to it.
Toni Kroos | Madridista
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This is pretty classic wishful thinking. I really can't buy into the idea that a team who don't have UCL football and are on course to finished 6th are a more likely destination than Real, Barcelona, City, PSG or Chelsea who all have shown time and time again that they can and will outspend us when it comes down to it.
I really think United will spend big this summer to compete with the likes of City and Chelsea....Kroos may be part of that big spend. How did City Build up to where they are? We are nowhere near as bad shape as they were.
How big is big though? City have spent about £639m since the Sheikh took over. I agree but we'll spend big in the summer and that we're obviously a better side than City were (although remember City had a decent side under Sven, they weren't nearly as bad as the pre-Sinawatra City were), but I don't think we can compare our spending in the summer come which will be at best £100-150m with City's outlay which has been 4-6 times that amount expecting the same results.
150-200 will be more than enough. we have a very solid core of excellent players. One or two excellent players coming up from teh youth side. A number of the older players will be leaving...which we all expected.
..and one or two deadwood will be leaving. I'm not unduly worried.
..and one or two deadwood will be leaving. I'm not unduly worried.
Not yet convinced we'll spend £150-200m in one transfer window. That's an incredible amount of money and just so far beyond what the Glazers has typically invested in the squad in their time here.
Who would you say is our solid core of excellent players? I think we definitely used to have that but really Rooney, De Gea, Mata and RVP are our only established top quality players now that Vidic, Rio, Evra, Nani and Carrick are either leaving, retiring or well off form. That basically leaves our entire defence and midfield.
Yes I agree but the problem with the youth team is there is a relative amount of naivety within youth, there are some great prospects in there, but they need to be mentored by senior players, world-class if possible to bring them up to near the same level by learning from them.
A lot of the youth team right now, needs to be bedded in with the senior team, but some of them need to develop for another few years before they are ready, probably another season or two in the reserves, with Capital One Cup action maybe to bed in with some of the senior players, and play with the senior players in training day in day out too prior to that.
I still think we need 5 players in the summer, the youth coming through will be replacing some of the aging players, the scary part is Liverpool are a team that has to be taken seriously now, along side Arsenal, City, Chelsea and even Tottenham.
Suarez has a clause in his contract allowing him to talk to Real Madrid (Or so I have heard), which means if they wanted to bid big for him in the summer, Liverpool would have the £60M Champions League money to spend on transfers, plus whatever Suarez is sold for, they could be serious contenders next year.
Rooney, De Gea, Mata, RVP, Jones, Smalling,Rafael,Januzaj, Evans....and at least Powell from the youth side. The midfield is what needs filling..no doubt. A solid left back...Shaw? I think we will bring in two excellent midfielders. Carvalho and....???
also there is a lot of talk about another CB...
perhaps we can get away with 100 million...Glazers will not let the team slide...not with all the revenue streams dependent on a top performing team.
lets start with defence. Moyes seems to be using Smalling as the back up for Rafael. If Evra leaves and we get Shaw or someone else...we still have Butner...ok not the greatest...personally I thin k he should be played as a winger.
We are well set for CBs but there is still talk of getting in a solid CB perhaps to partner Evans or Jones...I like Jones in midfield...or he could be a back up for midfield...that may be why we may be a getting a solid CB.
Midfield is where we need a lot of work. I do think we will get Carvalho...then Kross? Lallana? I honestly think Fletcher will only play a bit part.. Carrick will play a lot less. Cleverley be used only as a back up. Powell will be in the squad.
I think Valencia will be gone...perhaps Young too. no idea if Nani will be here either. So we have Rooney, RVP, Mata and Januzaj as our main forward players...sorry I forgot Welbeck in my initial core team. Hernandez will be gone too I think.
It has not been them that have been willing to outspend us, it has been us that have been unwilling to match their level of spending. We have restrained ourselves so far to match them because we weren't desperate for new players, we were interested in exciting players but we were either comfortably sitting on a PL title win or confident about SAF making it right next season regardless of which new players came in or not. We would show interest in exciting players, maybay even go as far as putting in a bid and if we were really interested we'd even be prepared to put in a big offer but as soon as things became a bit ridiculous we'd say no thanks, we like you as a player but we are never prepared to offer that kind of money for a single player, there are other fish in the sea and besides we are comfortable with what we have anyway. That has been our attitude in previous seasons but it won't be this summer.
Last summer was interesting to see what would change without SAF being there but Moyes adopted SAF's behavior, he'd show interest but he'd never go and make it ridiculous. He ended up at the end of the transferwindow without any new players and panicked and overspend on Fellaini. He thought he would be ok with the strong squad that SAF left behind and if any players were falling short he'd be able to see it in this transition period and he'd replace them in the winter or next summer. Season didn't turn out like Moyes planned it, the squad SAF left him wasn't as strong as he thought, alot of players come short on his expectations and alot of senior players have already signalled it would be there last season at the club. He is in 6th position, he lost out on CL football and he knows if he doesn't want to totally lose the supporters and bring this club to ruin he can't repeat the same mistakes he made last summer. He can't be passive, he can't just keep it at showing interest he knows he need players and he knows with all the departures he needs alot of them. He has said there will be alot of action in the summer, he has even said he already ligned up alot of targets and based on his recent comments it is even likely to assume some have been ligned up to sign before the WC starts.
Now given all this Moyes knows he will have to bring in a couple of big names, players like the ones he signed at Everton won't cut it and he also knows he can't show up with 4 or 5 fill up players. He knows he needs quality to make it good with the fans again and he also knows he need good players to do alot better than what he has done this season. He also knows he can't wait for a good opportunity to show up in the summer, he knows he needs to be proactive about this and that he'll probably have to outspend to get his targets. Kroos will be right up there on top of list, I can imagine Moyes making a bid to Bayern in the area of 35-40 Mil euro to get Kroos (which is a freaking lot for a player on an ending contract) and he'll offer Kroos probs the 3th biggest wage in the team (after Rooney and RVP) which will be in the are of €250.000 a week.
What I'am saying is I can't see Real, Barca, City, PSG spending that on Kroos because he won't be a priority for them. All these teams already have a good set of midfielders so they don't need to add another and they'll focus on other targets and if they want a midfielder it is more likley they go after Pogba or Vidal. The difference with previous seasons is United wouldn't have offered that kind of money to Bayern and that kind of wage to Kroos. But last couple of seasons they also weren't desperate this time around they are and that is what makes the difference. Now ofcourse it is an assumption Real, City, PSG etc won't be interest in Kroos to same extent as we are, if they are and they make Kroos a priority we probably won't get him. When I say make a priority I really mean offering 40 mil for him and offering a €250.000 a week wage (or more). Maybay Real will make an offer and they'll be willing to pay €30m but if Bayern knows they can get €40m they won't accept it. Ofcourse Real will outspend us if Kroos becomes their pricetarget (like Bale last year), but I don't think he'll be any clubs pricetarget (except ours). If he is not their absolute priority then I think they'll fidn United will be willing to go further then them, because this time around we are desperate and we'll overspend on the quality players we need, because we have to which is the difference with the last couple of seasons, because there we didn't have to and hence we never did it, this summer will be different.
This.
Not true, when Manchester United want a player, they outbid anyone, plus this is a new manager, with lot's of lucrative sponsorships that allow big bids from the club.
Look at how Perez confirmed Man Utd bid £120M for Bale last summer, we were prepared to spend that much on Bale, we nearly hijacked Real Madrids offer, so the money is there.
The example of bale makes your whole point redundant.
It doesn't it shows the club can outbid people if they value the player, plus you look at every team in Europe right now, they don't need a player like Kroos in their team, Manchester United is the only top team who does, and the only team who can pay his wage demands.
Do you honestly see a team like Real Madrid, or PSG offering Kroos wages surplus of £200,000 P/W I can't, PSG don't have that kind of revenue right now, Real Madrid are going for a spanish core, plus they are looking at Pogba.
We do? Hazard, Lucas Moura, Ronaldinho, Mikel, Thiago, Nasri....probably others as well.
PSG, City and Chelsea have lucrative sponsors too -- bottomless pits of oil money. In fact PSG are basically owned by an entire country and a rich country at that.
Perez says a lot of things. Feel free to post a quote from a United source about how we bid £120m for Bale.
It makes your point redundant because it shows exactly what I've been saying, that when Real Madrid and Man Utd both want a player, that player will 9 times out of 10 end up playing at Real Madrid because they offer much more money (especially in after tax wages -- a point you've completely neglected), they pay more to the selling club and they are a more attractive place to live and play football even to a British player like Bale nevermind to non British players.
Not to mention that was before Moyes and the 5-7th place finish. I can't imagine how easy it will be for players to pick Real over us now we're not even in the Champions League.
Kroos would massively improve PSG and they have more revenue than any other club in the world and don't give the slightest damn about financial fair play.
This is all redundant anyway as he won't leave Bayern.
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I think Moyes will be looking at 2 good midfield signings
a CDM and a Playmaker. Carvalho, Kroos, Gunodogan, Rakitic, Witsel, Song, Lallana
A new leftback is also as good as a certainty. Coentrao, Shaw, Moreno, Baines
I think Moyes also wants a new winger (although I'am not sure about it). In principle we are fine for the winger positions with Mata, Kagawa, Nani, Januzaj, Valencia and Young. Its possible Kagawa and Nani will leave, I can't see Valencia or Young leaving, I can see them getting a smaller role in the team and if Moyes isn't happy with Mata and Januzaj as first choice winger I think he'll try to get in a new winger. If he is happy with Young, Valencia, Mata and Januzaj or if Nani/Kagawa stay then I don't think he'll sign one. It also will depend ofcourse on who is available, no point in signing somebody who isn't an upgrade on what we currently have. Turan, Lucas, Griezmann, maybay Gaitan.
Centreback we'll only buy if the right player is available. If we can sign Benatia or Mangala I can see us doing so but else I think we'll work with we have in the team and promote Keane as back up player, maybay we'll extend the contract of Ferdinand and I also think somebody like Carvalho could be played there in case of emergency.
Fullbacks, I think we'll promote Varela to the first team and we'll also try to sign a versatile fullback who can cover both the leftback as the rightback. Sciglio, Santon also read something about us maybay going after Arbeloa as a cheap option (wouldn't be a bad idea, can play on both sides and would be an ideal back up player that wouldn't cost the world).
Striker we won't be signing any, RVP and Rooney will stay and the agent of Hernandez has also recently stated he thought Herandez was going to stay (hadn't received any offers for him, could change ofcourse in the summer).
A lot of spanish clubs are being investigated for tax reasons right now, yes the top earners don't pay as much tax, but I don't think it makes my point redundant at all, Bale was interested in a move to Real Madrid for quite a while, for over a year, so his mind was set, a last minute bid from another club he wouldn't have changed his mind for.
Let's say you have set your mind on buying a specific car for a year, and it's all you wanted, last minute you see another car for a similar price, you would still want the car you had been dreaming of for a while.
Also you do need to give a "damn about financial fair play" as there will be punishments handed out, and UEFA will make an example out of a club like PSG.
Yeah, I'm sure the Spanish courts will hit them just as hard as they did over the blood doping accusations.
Erm, that's the entire point? Why do you think he was dreaming of playing for Real? Because they are the biggest club in the world.
Yes I'm sure Michel Platini's UEFA will make an example out of PSG, the first club to make French club football relevant in 20 years.
I'd love to share your enthusiasm but no, Platini will do feck all.
We all know UEFA is corrupt and reeks of bias, but if they don't make an example of clubs like PSG then what is the point in having UEFA in the first place, governing body of european football, let's make a bunch of rules that don't apply to certain clubs.
They won't do an example of PSG, bar the corruption and probable bribing, Platini's son works for PSG
They're behind couple of walls to be fair, nothing will happen to them and I doubt anything will happen to those dirty money clubs either.What's the point you ask, to be absolutely fair, no fecking idea. It's not like the clubs couldn't do such tournaments as CL or EL just by agreeing some dates, rules and so on. Money rules it all.
Well as long as Platini heads UEFA, PSG arent going to be touched. After him though, you never know.
Blatter is the king of corruption...but Platini is pretty darn close.
scum the both of em.
scum the both of em.
Tottenham was reluctant on selling to us because we were direct competitors. Bale also didn't go to Real because it was nicer to live or the wheather was better but because he was a life long Real Madrid fan and his dream was playing for this club. On top of that United generally left it too late to make their final offer for Bale at which point the deal was so far progressed it couldn't be stopped anymore.
I genuinely agree that when Real and United equally want a player 9 times out of 10 he'll end up at Madrid. But In case of Kroos United and Real don't equally want the player. United are desperate and for Real he would be interesting but nothing more than that.
Last year Real were desperate for Bale, won't be the same with Kroos I think.
I love how people use what Perez says as a reliable source for united bidding WR for Bale
Why would they? A Qatari firm will sponsor PSG's socks for 500 million Euros and everything will be alright. Why would a European organization say no to money coming from outside of Europe to be invested in Europe? It really doesn't make sense. Financial fair play makes sense from a footballing perspective but doesn't from an economical one. It won't be implemented or at least not seriously. They will not look into the proper valuation of sponsorship deals and what the appropriate market value is because it would be stupid from an economical point of view to do so. At the end of the day, no commodity is being lost. If an oil oligarch somewhere wants to pay 500 million Euros for sponsorship rights which have an ROI that is less the investment itself, then what are you losing by selling? The same argument goes for player transfers and everything else. It is pure financial gain for UEFA and European economies as a whole. It will also ensure that nations whose football is developing outside Europe will not be able to get the elite players anytime soon.
I love how people use what Perez says as a reliable source for united bidding WR for Bale
Perez didnt mention it was us that bid for Bale at the time. He only said Bale wanted to come to Real ahead of another club who bid more than £100m.
Moyes was asked at a presser around that time, if we had bid for Bale & he said he doesnt discuss particular targets, but immediately followed that up by saying that we tried to bring someone in a huge deal, but talks were too far gone with another club. Everyone interpreted that as a yes on the Bale question..
Andy Goldstein from Talksport, a die-hard United fan & pretty critical of our transfer shambles, said that every journo worth their salt has told him that it was United who bid over £100m for Bale. Ex Real President Ramon Calderon has gone on record a few times stating that also...
It doesnt matter anyway - he's at Real now. We should have bought him atleast 2 years ago ffs!
City's stadium naming rights with Etihad were looked into by UEFA, havent heard the outcome tbh, but rediculous above the market value of sponsorship deals will be investigated. Whether anything will come out of any investigations is another thing, but its on UEFA's agenda..
I could be proven wrong but I predict that the outcome of these cases will always be something along the lines of "we looked into it and didn't find enough evidence to suspect any wrongdoing."
I tend to agree with ya man. I take that UEFA announcement recently, that 76 or so clubs are under investigation for FFP with a pinch of salt:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ble-financial-fair-play-breaches-9161011.html
How about Capello also saying the same?I love how people use what Perez says as a reliable source for united bidding WR for Bale
Fair enough, I didn't know that, thought it was just perez.
Perez is a twat anyway..
Not a chance in hell we will spend that much money although I can see us spending this summer. Only problem is the WC which notoriously makes business difficult and costly.
Bad time to rebuild IMO unless we get our business done early.
Yes, I am serious, the question is if they wish to bid that much for a player, but Man Utd can compete financially.
Whilst in theory we can compete. The business model of the club doesn't allow us to compete with teams like City and PSG. In terms of actual cash, the club isn't in the same league as the oil rich clubs. The financial position is stable but in regards to your point saying that if we want, we outbid the other club, well, no, that's not the case.
We can't compete with them for multiple players but we definitely can, for a player or too. Like he said, Bale is a point in case.
Unfortunately a football team is made up of multiple players. Obviously they can match it but not in a smart way.
As good as Kroos is, I still can't help but question whether he is the midfielder we need. Not sure if I can take another midfielder who plays the game at walking pace.
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