Great team performance = Great Kroos performance. Nothing new to see here.
Toni Kroos | Madridista
- Thread starter Varun
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Played really well today (usually does). And I'm on board with the idea that Madrid swooped in and with that we had no chance of getting him. If Kroos was available and willing to come to United we would have gotten him. Though I don't think the situation was ever that straightforward for us.
Pep could be the guy who lets him go. No harsh words, just creating a situation where Kroos goes without much trouble. Shows him that he isnt his Nr 1.
Thiago comes to mind.
I trust Pep and the board but letting Toni go/offload him is a bald move.
after last night's performance he will only end up Bayern or Real.
Would love to have him here! But not so sure of a Kroos-Herrera partnership, seems a bit defensively lightweight
In what sense? Didn't we buy Herrera because his interceptions and tackles were amongst the highest in the league, combined with an ability to pick a through ball?
About 70% of those interceptions were made in the opposition half - where he spends a lion's share of his time. He's played a pressing game and had a water-carrier behind him at Bilbao. He tackles well and he chases well, but he's nothing like a holding midfielder.
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I'm not saying Herrara is bad defensively (neither is Kroos since this is his thread) but their skillset when it comes to defensive play isn't the strongest out there. Yes, that was a concern I felt. But I was hoping he found a system to occupy them in. It would certainly have improved us, as for once in a long time we would a proper midfield. A midfield that wouldn't be over run against the smaller teams. With that, would have gotten top 4 finish as them points we dropped cost us badly.
With LvG though, I have every faith he has a system that is trusted. A system which didn't require Kroos who I think isn't a proper CM, instead more of an AM who tracks back sometimes. Moyes would have still preferred Rooney over RvP, and the likes of Kagawa would be wasted.
Atleast moyes was heading in the right direction, but he wasn't on the same path.
Not really I predicted that after Moyes we would have no chance of getting Kroos. It's as if he setup the deals himself, once he went, they went. Same with Ronnie, after Fergie retired there was no chance of us ever getting him.
I call bullshit on the article, really. There's only one winner in a Real v Utd transfer battle. It's hardly coincidence that we supposedly 'dropped' interest once Real became interested.
Hopefully so. Were those quotes from his brother ever verified? Did make it seem like he'd prefer a move to Manchester.
Feck it, though. Spilt mill...
Did his brother make quotes?
Dunno, way I see it, he probably was interested in moving here, you'd assume that by Moyes' constantly going over and scouting him that there was at least something in it, reported meetings with his agent etc. No doubt we were buttering him up and willing to offer monstrous wages compared to Bayern. After that, you can look at it in a few ways. We didn't get CL, which likely put him off. LvG didn't want him, which again seems unlikely, given the timing of it, and the fact that he basically announced just before that he had no intention of moving away, or, most probable, Real became interested and he no longer had any interest in coming here.
Maybe I'm deluded though, because the idea that van Gaal wouldn't want a player like Kroos is slightly concerning.
I have no doubt that Kroos is a quality player and will shine at Madrid but I genuinely think that LVG has a specific formation in mind to get the best out of his current set of players and cant accomodate Kroos in that vision without having a knock on effect to his existing team.
The way i see it is either madrid blew us out of the water with a bid (which is plausible but doesn't fit with Moyes' claims of a deal already being in place) or LVG consciously said Kroos is not for us.
if it is the latter then I dont think LVG pulling the plug on the deal is a sign of a managerial blind spot but more of a single mindedness and a ruthlessness in evaluating a players potential worth to the team.
The way i see it is either madrid blew us out of the water with a bid (which is plausible but doesn't fit with Moyes' claims of a deal already being in place) or LVG consciously said Kroos is not for us.
if it is the latter then I dont think LVG pulling the plug on the deal is a sign of a managerial blind spot but more of a single mindedness and a ruthlessness in evaluating a players potential worth to the team.
Indeed. And note even a player like Kroos. It's the fact that Van Gaal will know him so well, personally, too.
Like you said, all of this makes it more likely that Madrid blew us out of the water.
LVG typically plays 3 CMs so Kroos would be so perfect. Kroos Herrera and De Jong or something sounds like a midfield to content with Yaya, Fernandinho, silva etc and Fabregas Matic Oscar. I don't know if De Jong, Herrera and Cleverly or whatever sounds like it will be faves to dominate those big games.
Obviously Vidal could happen and that would be fine, but I have a horrible feeling Kroos is gonna go for like 32m or some such ridiculous bargain and Vidal deal is gonna break down after demands for 60m.
Basically while it's nice that we made two good signings, both of those signings were brokered by Moyes and after the WC I really hope LVG steps up and adds another CM of the kind of calibre we're discussing, because we should be comparing our midfield not to last years midfield, but to the midfield of chelsea and city who we will have to beat
Obviously Vidal could happen and that would be fine, but I have a horrible feeling Kroos is gonna go for like 32m or some such ridiculous bargain and Vidal deal is gonna break down after demands for 60m.
Basically while it's nice that we made two good signings, both of those signings were brokered by Moyes and after the WC I really hope LVG steps up and adds another CM of the kind of calibre we're discussing, because we should be comparing our midfield not to last years midfield, but to the midfield of chelsea and city who we will have to beat
We've just bought Mata and our midfield desperately needs some energy. Use your noggins.
If Van Gaal genuinely wants dynamism, legs and energy in midfield then Kroos isn't the man he should be buying. Moyes had different ideas. Clearly a deep-lying playmaker alongside somebody like Carvalho was part of the plan. I don't think it's part of this one.
If Van Gaal genuinely wants dynamism, legs and energy in midfield then Kroos isn't the man he should be buying. Moyes had different ideas. Clearly a deep-lying playmaker alongside somebody like Carvalho was part of the plan. I don't think it's part of this one.
IMO all of this just makes it sound like we already have 3 players for the attacking-midfielder position.
I'm probably old-fashioned but I just see him as a central midfielder and a bloody good one.
Great range and consistency of passing, good technique, very clever movement and a hammer of a shot off each foot. Not afraid to make a tackle either. Can't see why any manager wouldn't find a place for him in their team.
Great range and consistency of passing, good technique, very clever movement and a hammer of a shot off each foot. Not afraid to make a tackle either. Can't see why any manager wouldn't find a place for him in their team.
It looks to me like the simplest answer is the most obvious one: he turned us down rather than the other way around. I struggle to see almost any side not wanting a player like that for the same price as a James Milner or Joleon Lescott.
I think we need a bit more energy in midfield especially with us having Mata which is probably why we're after Vidal instead of Kroos
Like Thiago, I prefer to think that we really wanted him but he just chose another club instead. Unless any party conclusively states other wise I choose to believe what I want.
Aye, that's certainly the least cognitively dissonant answer too, so I'll go with it as well. For my own sanity!
How about not mobile, lazy in tracking back and he isn't a good tackler. Doesn't really have much to do with old-fashined, there's just more in being a midfielder than passing range.
Because they got Kagawa, Rooney and Mata in their squad.
How about Paul Scholes?
His waning powers have been the single biggest loss to United in the last 10 years (IMHO) and I don't remember him adding much in terms of those qualities to our team.
EDIT: not to mention that I would be horrified if Shinji fecking Kagawa was keeping Kroos out of our squad....
Kroos and Fabregas both don't give the type of defensive shift or workrate that Van Gaal wanted maybe ?
Remember he operated with Strootman as his Box to box 8 for Holland with De jong behind mostly and converted Schweinsteiger at Bayern not a Kroos type player.
Remember he operated with Strootman as his Box to box 8 for Holland with De jong behind mostly and converted Schweinsteiger at Bayern not a Kroos type player.
This
Scholes in his early days was box to box mostly along with Keane. Zidane called him a complete midfielder and so did Xavi. His workrate was great and Sir Alex mentioned many times how he added bite to United's midfield along with other Skills.
His tackling was bad but he was feisty. In his later years only when we played with 2 6's and he dropped back deep leaving the front 4 to do their thing, his mobility reduced.
Maybe Van Gaal wants to focus on something else than shifting the ball out wide to Valencia to put in as much crosses as possible. Scholes had way more defensive abilities than Kroos and he ran a LOT more than him.
Edit: Yeah, what @FromTheBench said.
A lot of people would argue that some of his best work for United came in those later years.
It bothers me that people seem to think playing in central midfield is all about athleticism and running around like a lunatic. Not when the likes of Pirlo and Xavi have so often put on a masterclass while barely breaking into a jog.
Ok, stopped reading there...
If you're too young to remember more tnan the last couple of seasons, you need to dig out some more footage to see what Scholes really brings to the team.
You guys are so flipping annoying!!!! Van Gaal didnt want him.... Get over it. We weren't blown out the water because by the time we shunned our interest there was no talk of Madrid. Good luck to him at Mardid he will not be missed here.
As if that sentence was meant serious.
Just read what FromTheBench wrote and realize that Van Gaal didn't want him because he isn't the type of player we need, not because he doesn't know his stuff.
I agree with you, but then it depends on playing style of the team. Kroos is perfectly suited in a technical sort of midfield that likes to build slow attacks and where he has other runners for him.
Put him in a Dortmund team which is high tempo football, and it would be square pegs in round holes. Infact Klopp actually wants his players to run more than the opposition and has said it with mids being all action. (Gundogan fitting that mould.)
Will be interesting how he fits into Real too, as they are a counter attacking team and not exactly posession based one. I still don't get this move from that perspective. Barca made surely a more better fit.
Kroos is one of a handful of players that I actually like outside United, but I can see why LVG didn't want him. I think we are looking to build a more dynamic team, in which Toni has no place, imo. The only position he could play in LVGs system is the most advanced midfielder(like he does for Germany) and we already have at least 2 player that play on that position at a very high level.
Just when I was getting to grips with him leaving, he goes and has a great World Cup.
Not sure whether we will feel his absence but he was great in Pep's system. Shame he is leaving.
Not sure whether we will feel his absence but he was great in Pep's system. Shame he is leaving.
Andy Mitten wrote a whole long piece about how it had been Kroos who turned United down and then we spun it. I'm inclined to believe him. The coordinated pieces from both the Mail and the Telegraph make me feel that, like the claims Giggs sabotaged our move for Thiago, this has been fed to the press by someone with an agenda: Either someone from the Moyes camp, or someone from inside Old Trafford who might not be sold on the new regime.
The stories in the Telegraph and the Mail are virtually identical so they clearly got the information from the same source, and both seem to try and put Moyes in as positive a light as possible. Once again we hear what Moyes was gonna do if he'd have had more time, with the implication that the guy that's come in after him is already making a mess of it. Its not a surprise, Martin O'Neil hasn't been able to hide his animosity towards for Van Gaal when doing punditry. Its clear that many people are angry Van Gaal got the United job and are looking for anything to throw at him.
Kroos is a world class player, he showed that again last night. However, we got turned down by Ronaldinho and that didn't turn out too badly ultimately did it? I'm just glad Van Gaal bought a midfield player as his first act rather than Fellaini.
The stories in the Telegraph and the Mail are virtually identical so they clearly got the information from the same source, and both seem to try and put Moyes in as positive a light as possible. Once again we hear what Moyes was gonna do if he'd have had more time, with the implication that the guy that's come in after him is already making a mess of it. Its not a surprise, Martin O'Neil hasn't been able to hide his animosity towards for Van Gaal when doing punditry. Its clear that many people are angry Van Gaal got the United job and are looking for anything to throw at him.
Kroos is a world class player, he showed that again last night. However, we got turned down by Ronaldinho and that didn't turn out too badly ultimately did it? I'm just glad Van Gaal bought a midfield player as his first act rather than Fellaini.
Yeah, this is the only reasoning i can think of. Makes sense as i said above.
Same applied to current version of Fabregas probably too. Hence why Mourinho was also said to be not initally keen on him.
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