Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Cina said:
Right now our midfield is a bit shit and clearly needs to be addressed, I won't read much into him starting particular games, let alone one. Nani was picked for that too and then magically disappeared for most of the season. He was also dropped quite regularly in favour of midfielders who aren't actually midfielders at all.
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This, more than anything else, is the thing that I hope will stop under Moyes. All the evidence from Everton seems to be that he prefers to play a 'good enough' midfielder in midfield than a world class defender/winger/striker/water boy. Which, I think, is the right approach (cough Jones Giggs Rooney Rafael cough).
 
Brightonian said:
He might be choosing him because he thinks that by 2014 or 2016 he will be better. Is that a criticism of Tom, that his international manager thinks he's going to keep getting better?
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He might be choosing him because in 2014 or 2016 gerrard/lampard will probably join gaz as tv presenters and wilshire will probably be in the treatment room. Under this circumstances the manager must give experience to the young generation and considering the limitations in terms of talent you dont need to be a genius that clev will feature heavily in englands national teams future.

I am not criticizing clev. Im just stating the obvious. We wouldnt be having this discussion if he was a generation older. Theres no friggin way that hell be able to compete with the likes of scholes, gerrard, lampard and beckham in their prime for an englands first team place
 
Cina said:
Rooney, Giggs and Jones were all regularly picked in midfield ahead of him throughout the season. He didn't play in the first Madrid game did he? Carrick has played in basically every game he's been fit for this season, cause he's a core member of the team, Cleverley has been in and out, cause he's a squad player, that's the way I see it for the future too. We're very likely to sign a midfielder or two that are better than him, and quite rightly, so I can't see it changing.
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Regularly? Jones got the gig for specific games which were down to tactics, Giggs often got a look-in due to rotation and Rooney played midfield twice in those two months I outlined. For a good portion of our season Cleverley was a first choice player but it's not like there were many options.
 
devilish said:
I am not criticizing clev. Im just stating the obvious. We wouldnt be having this discussion if he was a generation older. Theres no friggin way that hell be able to compete with the likes of scholes, gerrard, lampard and beckham in their prime for an englands first team place
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This. He wouldn't have been able to get into the United team any of the years we won the CL either. That's not an insult to Cleverly, it's just a reflection of how strong our team was in those seasons. That's the level we should be trying to get to again, so it's hardly surprising that Cleverly has his doubters. He's a fine squad player but the idea that we're underating him because he's homegrown is ridiculous.
 
Why couldn't they have just named him rose? Poor kid now has to live with a name no one can pronounce
 
I don't think he has what it takes to play as a playmaking fulcrum. For all of his Xavi idolisation, I think he'd be better served modelling his game on a more defensive player like Busquets. DM is the only role I can see him becoming a regular at United. It's all too easy to look at his comfort on the ball and assume he'd be great higher up the pitch, but I don't see anywhere near enough creativity for him to be able to adapt to that role. If he can work on his positioning and stick to staying as deep as Carrick, he could be a fantastic option for helping to bring the ball out of defence against high pressing teams. He's obviously still got time on his side and is working on his box-to-box game atm, but I think his best chance in the medium term will be as an alternative to Carrick.
 
Despite really wanting us to go for one of these improvements on Tom that are being floated around at the moment - Thiago, Fabregas, Modric etc - I still rate the lad and think that he will end up being an important player for us. Moyes strikes me as suiting him much more than Ferguson, and I think he'll get a lot more trust under Moyes (although obviously if we buy in a star player then that may not materialise immediately).
 
Dante said:
I don't think he has what it takes to play as a playmaking fulcrum. For all of his Xavi idolisation, I think he'd be better served modelling his game on a more defensive player like Busquets. DM is the only role I can see him becoming a regular at United. It's all too easy to look at his comfort on the ball and assume he'd be great higher up the pitch, but I don't see anywhere near enough creativity for him to be able to adapt to that role. If he can work on his positioning and stick to staying as deep as Carrick, he could be a fantastic option for helping to bring the ball out of defence against high pressing teams. He's obviously still got time on his side and is working on his box-to-box game atm, but I think his best chance in the medium term will be as an alternative to Carrick.
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I agree. I think he is good on the ball, but not special enough to be asked to make the difference from an attacking perspective. However, he'd be a very tidy defensive midfielder. He has the energy (if not the stamina just yet), and if he develops his tactical and positional sense, he can excel there. However, at nearly 24, he's clearly not in the class of the likes of Thiago, Gundogan, Wilshere etc. Top defensive midfielders don't have to be though, and as far as DMs go, he'd be amongst the technically good ones.
 
I think he needs to express himself more rather than taking the safer option everytime. There was one game for england where he was controlling everything in midfield and being their attacking playmaker. He certainly has it in his locker, just needs to come out of his shell.
 
I have always had the same opinion too. He just isn't talented enough creatively to be an offensive midfielder, he drifts very far up the pitch from his CM role which makes our team a bit gung-hoo as Carrick is far from a good enough defensive player to handle a "DM" role alone for the counter.

Cleverley however does have a drive to him, incredibly accurate passing and the ability to control the entire teams tempo. When Cleverley is playing he always pushes the tempo up which is a great thing to have in the team.

He would be a great Busquets like DM with some focus on defensive positioning which is his only real weakness.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I have always had the same opinion too. He just isn't talented enough creatively to be an offensive midfielder, he drifts very far up the pitch from his CM role which makes our team a bit gung-hoo as Carrick is far from a good enough defensive player to handle a "DM" role alone for the counter.

Cleverley however does have a drive to him, incredibly accurate passing and the ability to control the entire teams tempo. When Cleverley is playing he always pushes the tempo up which is a great thing to have in the team.

He would be a great Busquets like DM with some focus on defensive positioning which is his only real weakness.
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Uh, what?! :wenger:
 
He needs a fletcher like rise to prove his position in the club, then and only then will the fans be completely satisfied. I think we all agree he's a good squad player to have. He's one of those non flashy, tidy players who needs to learn to hit the target properly. Injuries have barred his growth and his quality hasn't increased as expected. But those games when he had ando and carrick on their song alongside him, he was playing rather good. I had a lot of hopes for this lad but right now it seems I was wrong. The only reason he's regularly playing is because of our midfield quality. If we buy even a single midfielder of good calibre, he'll only play a handful of games against easy opponents. I think SAF would have been a lot more patient with him. With moyes, am not very sure. I want to be patient but if there's another great signing in the CM, we'll all throw him off the ship
 
Cleverley seems too reluctant at times to attempt the risky pass, as though he values possession so highly that he plays it safe far too often and lacks the confidence to go for the defence splitting passes that could lead to good goal scoring opportunities for his teammates. Even if they have a slimmer chance of being completed its usually worth it. If in a game he does attempt some if these passes and they don't come off he then goes in his shell a bit for the rest of the game which was my interpretation of what happened in the FA cup game against Chelsea at OT (although SAF said him Rafa and Evra were dead on their legs by the 2nd half).

I like him a lot though. I like him buzzing around in midfield always running into space as soon as he releases the ball and demanding it back, he keeps things ticking over for us. He does need to consistently show more next season, and dare more but I think he can and will.

He seems to have been written off a bit this season after the way he ended it but let's not forget him and Carrick were our best partnership yielding 11 wins and 2 draws out of the 13 league games they started together in CM ( I think that was the stat). That said I think him and Thiago with Carrick slightly behind in a midfield three for some games where we need to pad out the midfield would be drool-inducing.

I hope he kicks on next season. He said something in an interview when away with England a few months back which showed he was aware of exactly where he needs to improve.
 
I think when you encounter a player who is fearful of making a risky pass which might end up being sensational, you're probably looking at someone who isn't cut out for the very top level. Not always the case, but I feel that's generally true.

Cleverley, as far as I can tell, keeps it simple and is relatively tidy in possession. You'll rarely look back at a game and think it was him who cost you it. Equally, I don't think you'd often say that his performance was the game swinger.

I fully imagine he'll be worked on to become the new Fletcher - solid squad player.
 
alastair said:
I think when you encounter a player who is fearful of making a risky pass which might end up being sensational, you're probably looking at someone who isn't cut out for the very top level. Not always the case, but I feel that's generally true.

Cleverley, as far as I can tell, keeps it simple and is relatively tidy in possession. You'll rarely look back at a game and think it was him who cost you it. Equally, I don't think you'd often say that his performance was the game swinger.

I fully imagine he'll be worked on to become the new Fletcher - solid squad player.
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You're right but he has done it from time to time though so we know he's got it in his locker, just not nearly often enough. When he was paired with Anderson at the start of the 2011/12 season he seemed more courageous and gung-ho. Then got injured and for the rest of the season and I'm not sure he got back to that level. You do need solid squad players in every winning team though so I wouldn't be too bothered if that's what he turns out to be but I think he has the potential for more, though at 23 when does potential stop being potential?

Here's some of the interview I was on about in my previous post for anyone interested:

“It’s more you just watch and learn with Scholesy rather than speaking to him. I can learn a lot of things from him, from the way he plays his game from short to long. He has been for many years one of the best in the world at keeping the ball, not only just keeping the ball but hurting teams as well. That’s a big part of Scholesy’s game. You can keep the ball as long as you want, playing it sideways 10 yards, but he also hurts teams as well, which you have to have in your game at this level.”

Cleverley is working on developing his passing, analysing Scholes during matches and in training at Carrington. Scholes is also an inspiration off the field.

“He’s a great person. He’s a great example for me to have around.

Danny Welbeck was in the United side that day and, like Cleverley, is being helped in his development by Wayne Rooney. “He’s good for me and the likes of Welbeck and the other young players at United and England,’’ Cleverley said.
“He offers you advice and tells you if he wants a bit more from you. He gives you constructive things.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...s-Paul-Scholes-path-for-club-and-country.html
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alastair said:
I think when you encounter a player who is fearful of making a risky pass which might end up being sensational, you're probably looking at someone who isn't cut out for the very top level. Not always the case, but I feel that's generally true.

Cleverley, as far as I can tell, keeps it simple and is relatively tidy in possession. You'll rarely look back at a game and think it was him who cost you it. Equally, I don't think you'd often say that his performance was the game swinger.

I fully imagine he'll be worked on to become the new Fletcher - solid squad player.
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I don't think he has an aversion to playing risky passes because he's scared, I just don't think it's his style. Cleverley's shown that he can be a difference maker, albeit not on a consistent basis. He's excellent at penetrating the opposition with one-twos around their penalty box, and he's also showed the ability to finish cooly as well.

Injuries have played a part in punctuating his progress, and I think he also has to work on his stamina (something linked to the injuries, I feel).

People tend to forget that he's played less than 50 times for United's first team - in that context, his progress has been fairly promising. I think next season will be a formative one for him.
 
Godfather said:
Neveah? What the feck is up with our lads? How do you even pronounce that?
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I think it's suppose to be "neev" which can be spelt loads of different ways. I agree that it's feckin stupid though.
 
Godfather said:
Neveah? What the feck is up with our lads? How do you even pronounce that?
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I know. People are trying to outdo each other these days with stunningly original baby names. Despicable, I says. Won't somebody think of the children? Seriously.
 
Feed Me said:
I don't think he has an aversion to playing risky passes because he's scared, I just don't think it's his style. Cleverley's shown that he can be a difference maker, albeit not on a consistent basis. He's excellent at penetrating the opposition with one-twos around their penalty box, and he's also showed the ability to finish cooly as well.

Injuries have played a part in punctuating his progress, and I think he also has to work on his stamina (something linked to the injuries, I feel).

People tend to forget that he's played less than 50 times for United's first team - in that context, his progress has been fairly promising. I think next season will be a formative one for him.
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The problems with his 1-2's just outside their box is that in a 4-2-3-1 the CM should not really be that far up.
 
Annahnomoss said:
The problems with his 1-2's just outside their box is that in a 4-2-3-1 the CM should not really be that far up.
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Formations, formations.

There's always scope for one of our central midfielders to make runs towards the box - it adds variety to the play.
 
Annahnomoss said:
The problems with his 1-2's just outside their box is that in a 4-2-3-1 the CM should not really be that far up.
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Weve always played in a way that when one CM goes forward to support the attack the other stays back.
I really don't see the problem.
 
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