Indeed. First season in the United first team and people expect him to make that position his own. Rafael had the same issues in his first season at RB, you need to give players time to settle in the first team. Heck it took Carrick a while to step out of Scholes' shadow ffs!
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
- Start date
- Status
Indeed. First season in the United first team and people expect him to make that position his own. Rafael had the same issues in his first season at RB, you need to give players time to settle in the first team. Heck it took Carrick a while to step out of Scholes' shadow ffs!
I think sometimes people apply too much sub-plots to analysis. Perhaps people are just 'saying what they see'. I don't think he's all that, and I'm sure United fans are equally as quick to dismiss players like Jordan Henderson and Joe Allen in the same manner. Cleverley is at a similar level to those guys I'd say.
He's gone through a long enough slump, but people are quick to forget his performances earlier in the season. Especially in the big games.
Cleverly is in no way average at his best, but it's typical of some people on here to say that when a player goes on a slump.
Cleverly is in no way average at his best, but it's typical of some people on here to say that when a player goes on a slump.
No he's not. Cleverley is closer to Wilshere's level than Henderson's level.
And that's not me saying he's as good as Wilshere, he's simply a much better footballer than Henderson and Allen.
He's a good little midfielder, and he's certainly worthy of a squad place.
And who's to say he won't develop like Carrick?
And who's to say he won't develop like Carrick?
Nothing wrong with being a good squad player at United.
Allen is dog shit. Henderson has been better this season and those dismissing are doing it out of spite or are continuing with their preconceived notions from last season.
Comparison to Allen is insulting. To Henderson is not fair either.
If you can remember the period before February, Cleverley gave some very good performances in the midfield. The biggest positive was that those come against City (away), Chelsea (away), Arsenal (home) & Real (Home). Fatigue may be the reason he faded away post that period. We should not forget that he was involved with Britain in the Olympics and played all the games. He did very well in some of the games he played for England too.
He's already pretty good and still improving. He's a relatively late developer which I guess is primarily because he was quite small when younger. Even now he's quite small and does seem to pick up some niggly injuries but he is doing ok and I'm looking forward to watching him next year. I think he has plenty of potential to carry on improving and seems to have the right mentality to want to be the best he can.
I like him. Glad we have him.
I like him. Glad we have him.
Allen doesn't do too much. What he does do though, is get it and give it. I don't see him imposing himself on and running games, nor do I see Cleverley doing it.
The difference between Henderson/Allen to me, is that we will over-analyse and defend Cleverley's game in a manner we will not do to them. Oposition players are usually assessed much more straight-forwardly, but with Clev you will get all sorts of subtle assets like his anticipation, showing for the ball etc - in reality, he's a player who generally gets it and moves it along, like the other two.
Strongly disagree.
Indeed. Nothing wrong with it at all, and I don't want us to get rid or anything.
I know it's probably never going to happen again, but that midfield pairing of Cleverley and Anderson was really dynamic and often deadly, their quick movement and aggressive passing is well suited for playing with Nani and Welbeck, I think. We saw some pretty fantastic football from those 4 in the season before this one.
With Carrick he's not able to be quite as dynamic, but I'm certainly still thrilled at his development and hope he sticks around for a long time.
With Carrick he's not able to be quite as dynamic, but I'm certainly still thrilled at his development and hope he sticks around for a long time.
My opinion of him sways back and forth constantly. When he first broke through I thought he was nothing special, then I thought he could be a pretty good midfielder, now I think he'll just be a decent squad player for us.
Cleverly is a good talent and will probably be a very good player by PL standards, it's just by Manchester United standards that he's average. He's good enough to be a squad player here, but no more than that. That isn't judging him during a poor bit of form, that's judging him based on everything he's shown so far in his career. He just doesn't have that very high ceiling of quality, he's never shown anything like the natural talent someone like Wilshere has.
I think Cleverly has suffered a bit by being a 1st choice for United and England when really he shouldn't be, that's a reflection of the weaknesses both teams have in midfield rather than a reflection of his current ability.
I think Cleverly has suffered a bit by being a 1st choice for United and England when really he shouldn't be, that's a reflection of the weaknesses both teams have in midfield rather than a reflection of his current ability.
Cleverley's style is very easy on the eye and his ability in tight spaces makes him useful in certain circumstances because we don't really have another midfielder who can do that particular job the same way. But I reckon he only really stands out because he's an Englishman playing like a Spanish player. That's not to say he's bad, but I can't help feeling there are a fair few Spaniards/Portugeezers/Latin Americans who can do the same job only better. He does do a decent enough imitation of them, mind you, and he's already one of us so you can't help but give him the benefit of the doubt. A bit like Joss Stone, if Joss Stone had misappropriated the Iberian footballing style instead of black soul music. I like him as a squad player, but don't think we should rely on him as a first teamer.
I echo this assessment.
So you're saying we should hatch a mad-cap plan to abduct and murder Cleverley with machetes, because he's mates with the royal family?
I have yet to change my opinion on him. He is and will be good enough to be a squad player for United but I don't think that he will ever be good enough to be a first team player. Saying that, he could give us 25-35 games for a lot of years and the squad need depth. I am happy with him staying to us for a long time. People forget at times that players like O'Shea or Brown although they weren't first team players, they gave a lot of contribution for this team and it wouldn't me surprise to see Cleverley doing exactly that.
Cleverley is an excellent player. Much better than a simple squad player. I cant believe what i read here sometimes...
With him as a regular starter, we played some of our best football... but rotation, injuries and such never really gave him the full run of games he need to persuade those who still think he is not good enough.
I really like him because he keep it simple (people confuse that with being limited midfielder lol), quick on his feet for the pass, is always available to receive the ball and cover lots of ground, great stamina. He can be a very good box to box midfielder. He can defend, assist and score goals, and he will get better if he play regularly. And most important, you can tell he plays his heart out on every game.
I hope Moyes thinks the same... :S (I also want to see Januzaj... another top talent)
Ps. What we really need, is a defensive midfielder beast, because lets be honest... Carrick is class with the ball at his feet and reads the game like few, might be one of the best deep lying midfielders out there, but we need some crazy bastard that will never stop until he recovers the ball. I think the lack of one of these type of players, is the reason for us being unable to never fully dominate games and had to suffer more than necesary to get the results. We are lucky we have a powerful strikeforce up there to save the day regularly.
ps2. Gary Medel is on the cheap... 12M might do for him... and he is worth so much more than that. Just to give an example...
With him as a regular starter, we played some of our best football... but rotation, injuries and such never really gave him the full run of games he need to persuade those who still think he is not good enough.
I really like him because he keep it simple (people confuse that with being limited midfielder lol), quick on his feet for the pass, is always available to receive the ball and cover lots of ground, great stamina. He can be a very good box to box midfielder. He can defend, assist and score goals, and he will get better if he play regularly. And most important, you can tell he plays his heart out on every game.
I hope Moyes thinks the same... :S (I also want to see Januzaj... another top talent)
Ps. What we really need, is a defensive midfielder beast, because lets be honest... Carrick is class with the ball at his feet and reads the game like few, might be one of the best deep lying midfielders out there, but we need some crazy bastard that will never stop until he recovers the ball. I think the lack of one of these type of players, is the reason for us being unable to never fully dominate games and had to suffer more than necesary to get the results. We are lucky we have a powerful strikeforce up there to save the day regularly.
ps2. Gary Medel is on the cheap... 12M might do for him... and he is worth so much more than that. Just to give an example...
Much more than a simple squad player. 23, debut full season with the club, had burnt out earlier in the season and technically one of the best players the academy has produced in years. If he was a Spaniard we'd be wanking ourselves silly.
Well no we wouldn't because you can name plenty of young Spaniards who are clearly way more talented than him and can't get near the Spanish side. If he was a Spaniard most people on here probably wouldn't even have heard of him.
I hate that term, it's silly, Wilshere isn't Spanish, is he? Yet the majority of the footballing world think he's amazing.
Agreed. Likewise, if Wilshere wasn't Spanish, we'd all say he was ordinary.
Great minds.
A tough, testing season for Tom, which will make or break him. He'll either come back strong, live up to his potential and fight for his place, or pick up where he left off this season, as a bit part player.
Next season will show us what he's really made of.
Next season will show us what he's really made of.
Yeah, but let's remember he's still young for a central midfielder. It sure as hell took Carrick long enough to grow what vaguely resembles a set of balls.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. An Aussie talking sense about soccer! Whatever next!
I never understood this “he need more time” comments. If a player needs more time then he shouldn’t be considered a first teamer in the first place. Once he doesn’t need any more time then he’ll have to fight to win a first team place. We’re talking about Manchester United here and not Norwich.
If a player is good enough then he’ll claim his place irrespective whose got ahead of him in the pecking order. Fletcher claimed back his place, despite having to compete with Scholes, Giggs and the then new boys Carrick, Ando and Hargreaves. Scholes had to fight for his place first with Nicky Butt and then with 22m rated Veron who was, at that time, considered second only to Zidane. I think that our CMs need some serious competition. That may actually pull them off the complacency they may be in and allow them to reach new levels
If a player is good enough then he’ll claim his place irrespective whose got ahead of him in the pecking order. Fletcher claimed back his place, despite having to compete with Scholes, Giggs and the then new boys Carrick, Ando and Hargreaves. Scholes had to fight for his place first with Nicky Butt and then with 22m rated Veron who was, at that time, considered second only to Zidane. I think that our CMs need some serious competition. That may actually pull them off the complacency they may be in and allow them to reach new levels
A part of me wants to die everytime I see these kind of comments.
It was tongue-in-cheek but there's some truth in it. If he'd have been a new purchase making his debut season for the team, no doubt posters on here would be more satisfied with his season than they are. It's his first real season where he's not been constantly hampered with injuries, and he's put in some good performances as well as some poor displays. He's only 23, is coming of some very high praise from academy coaches and looks to be at the centre of the plans of the national coach and yet some people don't think he's United quality.
This isn't his debut season though, he played a part last season. Being unfortunate with injuries doesn't mean that this was his first year here.
He had some good games, many decent games and some shit ones, but now is 23 years old and he hasn't shown yet to be good enough to start for us.
If you look at Spain team, the likes of Ander Herrera or even Thiago Alcantara or Javi Martinez barely plays a game for Spain *or not even that in case of Herrera) and they are all better players than Cleverley (or probably even in case of Herrera). He's not Gibson by any means but let's not pretend that he is Fabregas.
Him being in the center of national coach plans has more to do with the lack of quality of England midfielders than anything else. It is the same team that has played Parker, Barry and Henderson. Just look at other players (at the same age as him) like Alcantara, Martinez, Gundogan or Veratti who barely plays for their teams and all of them have been proven more than Cleverley (Pogba too if you want).
Cleverley is a good player with potential to be a very good one. But at the moment, I don't think that he is good enough to be a starter for us. I even have doubt that he will ever be a great starter for us, but that's a thing we can't possibly know.
If you'd finished here, I'd have agreed. The stuff about England is melodramatic, though - he's getting into that team despite competition for places from Wilshere, Carrick, Lampard and Gerrard. I know we've had to live through years of England fans overestimating our technically limited sides but the trend in the other direction is just as annoying. Carrick would arguably get into Spain's midfield at the moment, given that he's had a better six months than either Alonso or Busquets.
So if Cleverley was getting into England's midfield, it meant something. He was actually playing very well in the middle part of the season. That said, I think his club form has gone backwards badly since it earned him a place in the England squad, and currently I'd be starting Lampard comfortably ahead of him in a three man England midfield (with Carrick and Wilshere, obviously).
Do you sincerely think that if Lampard and Gerrard were 25 years old + Wilshere was not injury prone, Clev would have stood a chance against them for a first team place with England?
Let's face it, the criteria for England selection is baffling. Apart from Rooney, you could make a strong argument that there are better players not being played compared to those in the starting 11.
He was a much better player at 23 than Tom Cleverley is.
Of course not, that's not at all what I said. But Gerrard is still a decent player and Lampard has been excellent this season, and Cleverley still managed to start ahead of both of them a few times based on his mid-season club form.
Wank myself silly if he was Spanish 
I would look at all the top midfielders Spain has and ask myself how we got this one.
Honestly though he's a good player. On his day he can be very good. But he's still very very inconsistent. But no wonder with all the little injuries he's had.
And certainly Fergie also felt that there's still a lot lacking for him to be considered first choice. He sat out a lot of the time at the end of the season.
He might turn into a decent midfielder, I'm sure. But I think he'll never be top class, for that he just lacks talent.
I'm with Solius though. My opinion of him changes a lot. Shows what I said about him beeing inconsistent.
I would look at all the top midfielders Spain has and ask myself how we got this one.Honestly though he's a good player. On his day he can be very good. But he's still very very inconsistent. But no wonder with all the little injuries he's had.
And certainly Fergie also felt that there's still a lot lacking for him to be considered first choice. He sat out a lot of the time at the end of the season.
He might turn into a decent midfielder, I'm sure. But I think he'll never be top class, for that he just lacks talent.
I'm with Solius though. My opinion of him changes a lot. Shows what I said about him beeing inconsistent.
You also have to remember this is the same England manager who messed around Rio and would probably pick Cleverly over Carrick so... being selected for England isn't much to speak about.
Could it be the case that Hodgson is choosing Cleverley over Lampard/Gerrard because he is young rather then better? I doubt that the latter would still be around for the EURO 2016 let alone the World cup 2018
Having the luxury of time is not something which United can afford to give.
I'm all for home grown players, and i'm sure Tom would have played more if he was ready for the occasion. If he's not being picked to play- then he clearly hasn't impressed the staff enough during training to be considered for game time.
That's re-writing history, isn't it? Because it simply isn't true at all.
At 23 Carrick had just had his first season at Spurs, who finished 9th. They bought him for 3.5 million from West Ham, who failed to win promotion from the Championship. At the same age Cleverley was playing for the best team in the country, and for the first half of the season absolutely looked the part.
Carrick's break out season came at 24, when he was partnered with Edgar Davids.
- Status