Not really. Being anonymous would be far worse.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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Not really. Being anonymous would be far worse.
Although having said that it's a bit difficult to understand him being played as second striker.
The encouraging part was how he moved into dangerous positions and got on the end of chances, the less encouraging is his lack of self belief and letting a few early poor touches get the better of him.
For long phases of that half he found it hard to have an influence. Its not too surprising given he's playing an unfamiliar role and against a tough nut to crack like Tymochuk. 2 poor finishes but was unlucky at the end of the half. What you cant say is that he doesnt work hard. He always impresses with that.
There can't be any real excuse for scuffing it from only a few yards out. I'm a huge fan of Cleverley and I agree he's not an attacking midfielder but 2 out of 3 chances he had in the first half should have been goals.
Cleverley's developed a baffling approach to shooting that appears to consist of trying to side foot the ball regardless of the situation. Its bizarre because in the reserves he could crack 'em and on loan too. Needs to remember hot to wallop it.
You're right, he seems to be taking shooting tips from Anderson. But he's been like this since last season now, so it's not the wisest of decisions playing him as a second striker.
Sounds like a confidence thing more than anything.
The goals will come, you need to worry when the chances aren't coming.
I agree with you and I remain unconvinced about Cleverley as an attacking midfielder. If he's not going to play in the centre of midfield it would make sense to sub him off in the second half so that a player more suited to getting into those positions can play instead.
Funny you should say that because from the description of the side footed shots, it made me think of Anderson in in his first 18 months at the club. Maybe the "I'll try and sidefoot every shot" thing is a dark dark place central midfielders go to when they havent got a goal in a while.
He needs to stop taking shooting lessons from Anderson....
Shocking performance.
Thought he offered far more than Oxlade-Chamberlain who was really, really bad, at least he showed for the ball and made something of it a few times. Having said that, he won't look back on this one too fondly, I'm sure 
1. Clev is not a number 10
2. Ukraine were very negative and didn't give us any space
3. Tymoschuk is a very good player and had TC in his pocket
4. Cleverley will never be an Iniesta type player who can turn on a 6 pence and evade his markers like a ghost.
2. Ukraine were very negative and didn't give us any space
3. Tymoschuk is a very good player and had TC in his pocket
4. Cleverley will never be an Iniesta type player who can turn on a 6 pence and evade his markers like a ghost.
Not buying all the hype as of yet. Jury still out for him as far as I'm concerned.
You're consistent!
Thought he offered far more than Oxlade-Chamberlain who was really, really bad, at least he showed for the ball and made something of it a few times. Having said that, he won't look back on this one too fondly, I'm sure
Aye
The Ox does not impress me greatly. A couple of times a game he goes past a few players so everybody jumps on his cock, same effect as Adam Johnson - forget that for the most part they are bloody awful. He looked gassed in both games too and he looks a little chubby to me.
He is 19, he can get better...............etc etc.
Cleverley's best assets are his speed of thought and action.
But are they enough? This season should tell the tale.
But are they enough? This season should tell the tale.
Jesus. People here swing from one extreme to another. Cleverly played well in spells, Lampard is the one who was more or less pedestrian the entire game. Bar all the misses, which make the performance look much worse than it was, I'd say Cleverly put in a decent shift - although he did fade quite noticeably in the second half.
Here we go again, picking holes in every fecking thing I say.
Cleverley did not have a good game at all. He missed an absolute sitter that would have given my country two additional points tonight.
Not his best game, not his best position. Def should have done better for the chances Defoe and Lampard created for him, the post hit was actually a good bit play from him. Somewhat successfully tried to drag Tymoschuk all over the place and it's baffling that England weren't more eager to exploit the space it did create on occasion. Set up Baines nicely with his last touches before coming off. Not as shit as Milner who had a single not-completely-pointless involvement all game.
I disagree.
I thought that Lampard played quite well. He is better at turning with the ball than Clev and also showed a little bit of craft at times, add to that, him being one of the best penalty takers in the world.
Clev spent most of the game dropping deep and passing the ball back to the person who played it to him and not to mention some awful finishing.
He really had a bad game but has been encouraging in 3/4 games leading up to tonight.
Welbeck should have started. He made a real difference when he came on.
Meh. He took the penalty well enough, but other than that, it wasn't a particularly effective performance.
Thought he had a decent game overall, shame he missed those two chances.
Thats what people were saying about Ramsey for two seasons. Now hes benched and rightly so.
Looks like he's a graduate of the Anderson school of finishing.
If Cleverley isn't an attacking midfielder then what exactly is he? He looks far from ready to be playing in a 4-4-2 regularly.
A young central midfielder. Remember Fletcher at his age?
Funny to read this compared to after the Moldova game
Don't get carried away people
Don't get carried away people
oh to be a footballer. these threads make me shake my head.
Neither did any of those other one paced donkeys in midfield, at least they were playing in their normal positions!
I think I watch different England games to everyone else.
He was by a long, long way the best England player on the pitch for the first hour? The only one who looked like they had a clue how to play football at all until Sturridge came on.
...although the fact Sturridge came on and then also looked like the best player on the pitch tells you just how well everyone else was playing.
Chamberlain and Lampard were almost impossibly pathetic...and one got given MOTM.
He was by a long, long way the best England player on the pitch for the first hour? The only one who looked like they had a clue how to play football at all until Sturridge came on.
...although the fact Sturridge came on and then also looked like the best player on the pitch tells you just how well everyone else was playing.
Chamberlain and Lampard were almost impossibly pathetic...and one got given MOTM.
Apart from the fact he missed 2 virtually open goals and spent large portions of his time on the pitch mystifyingly displaying the first touch of Carlton Palmer? Other than that he was good, I suppose.
A player still learning his trade obviously.
Looked to me like that had a lot more to do with Lescott managing to pick out a Ukrainian player's arse despite having three easy passes to team mates available.
As well as Lampard and Milner constantly failing to fulfil the basic requirements of the positions they were playing in. Ukraine must have had 10+ attacking situations which could have resulted in goals due to Milner being tucked miles to far inside and Lampard doing his Liam Miller impression. One of them did result in a goal.
People are whining about Cleverley being played out of position, but how many years ago WAS Lampard last suitable to play in a midfield two? Let alone with Steven Gerrard, who he couldn't even play competently in a midfield two with when they were both in their prime.
Everything good going forwards had to go through Cleverley, because no one else was offering anything until Welbeck and Sturridge came on and finally started driving at the defenders. Chamberlain kept trying to and fecking it up. Literally every single time.
He did miss a sitter and another decent chance, but then the sitter technically Defoe fecked up by being offside in the build up. If you took Cleverley out of the equation none of England's chances in the first half would have happened in the first place. It'd have just been England giving the ball away then being caught too open on the break.
The second wasn't an open goal at all, and he was the best England player on the ball in the first half. I mean by an absolute fecking huge mile. It looked like someone had thrown a footballer into a team of part time scrappers. The rest of them were making James Milner look decent.
Seriously, what games do people watch? Do you lot just listen to Andy Townsend? He gave Lampard MOTM for one of the worst midfield displays I think I've ever seen.
He'd be better playing in that role with Wilshere or Carrick alongside Lampard behind him. Gerrard particularly is far too eager to ignore any player moving between the lines and just clipping long balls into the channels. It's too direct for international football. Pass the ball to the man in space, to his feet. Yes that's right, the one with his arms out calling for it.
You can't play Lampard in a midfield two if he's going to play like that though. I'm baffled how he keeps his place.
At least Gerrard was trying to cover the ground and position himself actively off the ball. Lampard seemed to just want to wonder around being Darron Gibson. There's no player on earth who could have played alongside him and made that work. Let alone a 30+ year old who's himself used to having a more discilined midfield partner to play off.
That's where the problems were occuring all game too. Only Gerrard was showing for the ball from the defenders. Other players were bringing the ball into that area of the pitch themselves due to no one showing for it, losing it, and then letting Ukraine players run past them. When England actually got it into the further forward areas, they started to look like they had a clue.
Why do some of you people even bother watching the game if you just judge players on highlights and what the commentators/'experts' say? It's mental. Cleverley was bright as he always is, on and off the ball, offensively and defensively. If you're expecting him to be England's/United's saviour then he's never going to be good enough. He's not someone who's going to suddenly carry the team on his own, he's not someone who's going to carry the midfield when the rest of it simply isn't functioning. He's just a very tidy, very sharp and very hard working player, always great to have in midfield, but that's all he is. He's just one of the cogs in a well-oiled machine. And he'll be one of those cogs in the United side for a long time to come, but if England continue to play with a) defenders who can't pass the ball and b) midfielders who simply refuse to do the basics then he's got no chance. I mean seriously, right through the spine of that team you had players (Jagielka, Lampard, Defoe) who were consistently useless when in possession, do you really expect the rest of the players to make up for that?
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