just stick Phil Jones next to him, and Tom will be looking good again.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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You mean acceptable. I can't think of too many games he's impressed in. He just goes with the flow and breezes through most games. He works hard but he's simply not got the talent to be a Manchester United midfielder, not one that consistently starts anyway.
Has he genuinely ever put in a great performance? I would go as far as saying that Anderson's best games for Manchester United were better than Cleverley's. They're both shite though.
This is for sure.
Cleverley's best performance this season IMO was against Chelsea. Not great but a very good performance.
I probably sound like I've an anti Cleverley agenda at this stage, I don't. He seems a likeable lad, like Anderson, but he's simply not good enough, like Anderson.
What could've been...
Cleverley is the definition of a wishy-washy player.
There isn't anything anti-Cleverley, he just isn't that good.
Ando was good enough but he wasted his talent cause he wasn't dedicated and also the problem of injuries. Cleverley, he is dedicated but not that much talented.
Don't you think we should grant him 50 games at United before we start writing off his career?
He's definitely played over fifty games for Manchester United. The jury is in with regards Tom, he's not good enough.
I'm talking about league games. If you want to include all competitions he's still not reached 75. The jury isn't in. David Moyes, Roy Hodgson and even Sir Alex Ferguson all thought him good enough for their teams.
Ah c'mon now, the penny has dropped with Cleverley. He's played a good fifty games and not once can I think of him putting in a great performance, not once. He's played well a few times, sure, but can you remember any game in which you thought to yourself that Cleverley is the real deal, a midfielder worthy of a starting spot for Manchester United? I can't. Even Anderson has put in great performances here and there.
He's not good enough, nothing against him and I'd keep him around as a squad player while Moyes rebuilds the squad.
In a way, yes I have. If you start comparing him to Keane and Scholes, of course he isn't. He's not even Nicky Butt, but at the moment this is the midfield we're dealing with, and he's managed to fit in quite well. I don't deny he's not set the world alight, but I'm refusing to write off his career with us at this early stage.
It was around this time when Fletcher started to make his value known. Fergie's son and Sir Fletch were no more; he was becoming established. But even then I don't think he peaked until around 2008/09, three or four years after he'd started influencing things.
Listen, if Cleverley isn't making any notable improvement by the end of this season I'll see a reason for dumping him, but he's still relatively young and inexperienced, and any United lad who's hard working gets extra time by me.
I'm not calling for him to be shafted, no. Like I said he's a likable lad and an academy graduate so I'd keep him around until someone better comes through, perhaps Powell...
But would you not be worried that he has failed to stand out in a midfield worthy of a mid-table side?
Not particularly. His lack of progress is certainly something to be looked at, but footballers develop at different rates. Frank Lampard's a decent example. Loads of West Ham fans wanted rid of him and stated he was only there due to his relationship with Redknapp, but Redknapp spoke of how hard working he was and, although it took a while, he made a name for himself there before moving to Chelsea and becoming one of the top midfielders in the world. I'm not saying that'll happen to Cleverley, but you don't know what's going on on a training ground or in private or even in the player's head. You get 90 minutes a week to judge a player's career. I'll leave his fate in the hands of Moyes, and while they're happy to play him, I am.
That's fair enough and I commend you for your patience. I personally feel that Cleverley only gets a look in as we've nobody else of note. I'd be interested to see if Jones strolls back into midfield in Cleverley's place when he's back from injury.
Nothing anti Cleverley there, just an opinion.
The comments that are out of line are the abusive ones calling him a useless cnut or a coward.
I have called Evra out this on occasion only to be shot down because we all love him but he is as guilty as anyone. I agree with the point on losing the ball and getting back into position and yeh you can be very specific and link it to work ethic but in this case, I wouldn't. Cleverley really does run his socks off in there and gives his all. Ability wise his all isn't good enough for what we need but effort wise it is.
I agree Eric it's just a mixture of poor form, players not good enough, injuries and a couple of bad attitudes. I was probably harsh on Cleverley he does graft and always wants the ball, it's just what he is doing with it at present that is the problem. Mind you he is not alone in doing that.
Evra is a trier well going forward at least, it's just his defending and ability to get up and down the field that lest him down at times.
He would be a good 4th choice at United if he was a 20year old as he would have time to improve but he is 24yers old he should be running the show by now. How much more he would need to improve is not going to happen. A shame as he's been at united for over a decade but like Campbell Brady etc he should go and find his level. I'm sure he will have a very good career but not as a United starter if we are to win trophies. He would be a handy squad player at best but I'd rather we bought 2 midfielders to compete with Fellaini and Carrick for those berths.
I think the problem with Cleverley is he is a jack of all trades, but a master of none.
He is reasonably fast, but not quick.
He can pass safely and accurately, but not unlock doors and mostly with no risk.
He can tackle, but is quite lightweight and it need's to be a clean interception for him to win the 50/50.
He can shoot well with a finese curl type shot, but lacks any real power and rarely get's into the box.
Overall in my eyes he is just average all round. A good squad player but he should not be the main man in our midfield.
He is reasonably fast, but not quick.
He can pass safely and accurately, but not unlock doors and mostly with no risk.
He can tackle, but is quite lightweight and it need's to be a clean interception for him to win the 50/50.
He can shoot well with a finese curl type shot, but lacks any real power and rarely get's into the box.
Overall in my eyes he is just average all round. A good squad player but he should not be the main man in our midfield.
I think this sort of press has gone to his head
Roy Hodgson believes Tom Cleverley can do the same job for England that Cesc Fabregas carries out for world and European champions Spain.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2200448/Tom-Cleverley-Englands-Cesc-Fabregas--Roy-Hodgson.html#ixzz2q8s22JDo
I would like a pint of whatever you are on Mr Hodgson
Roy Hodgson believes Tom Cleverley can do the same job for England that Cesc Fabregas carries out for world and European champions Spain.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2200448/Tom-Cleverley-Englands-Cesc-Fabregas--Roy-Hodgson.html#ixzz2q8s22JDo
I would like a pint of whatever you are on Mr Hodgson
Unless he means warm the bench up :-)
He was massively overplayed in the Christmas and new year period to be fair to him - no surprise he looked jaded considering how much football he played in such a short space of time.
Why would you assume this? Is there any evidence at all this would be the case?
I agree with this. I'm not trying to make ample excuses for him but he played game after game during a hectic period. Then play 2 games in 3 days(defeats to Swansea and Sunderland). It would be no surprise to see him knackered.
Has'nt so far and does'nt look like he is going to fulfill the potential he had, goal scoring midfielder getting on the end of stuff in the box, other than that he is so average, there are a rake of players in the academy and reserves who could easily replace him. I still remember last year SAF dropped him, he was missing for about 2 months, was'nt injured, even missed out on the benche a lot, made you think something was going on behind he scenes, unknown but as it stands, he is an average squad player.
Just stuff I have heard bout his big I am attitude (allegedly)
"TC23" thinks he's the dog's bollocks. He's just bollocks. Fletcher is so far superior a central midfielder even in his rehabilitation in the first team.
The most influential game i can recall him having in recent times was the Brazil friendly for England last year, played alongside Wilshere and Gerrard in a three IIRC.
Other than that he did show some glimpses when used in the No 10 role on occasion, yet as is the case when used in a two man midfield for us his lack of assertiveness when on the ball causes limitations [enough that he can't be relied upon as first choice in either role as matters stand].
Other than that he did show some glimpses when used in the No 10 role on occasion, yet as is the case when used in a two man midfield for us his lack of assertiveness when on the ball causes limitations [enough that he can't be relied upon as first choice in either role as matters stand].
Kind of ironic that the player who used to get these same types of criticisms for a few seasons is now used as a reference for what Cleverley should be.
I just did a quick search and let's just say manusteve was one of those who thought Fletcher was rubbish. I'd post some quotes but it'd be embarrassing.
Cleverley is the perfect scapegoat when things go wrong.
You know it's bad when I guy, with a serious illness, comes back and teaches you a thing or two.
Should not be near our team right now....Train his bollix off and improve on a lot of aspects of his game and then come back and see what he can do.
Has been utter shit since the Davis tackle....Although, oddly enough, he has been quite decent for England at times
Should not be near our team right now....Train his bollix off and improve on a lot of aspects of his game and then come back and see what he can do.
Has been utter shit since the Davis tackle....Although, oddly enough, he has been quite decent for England at times
I think the danger with trying to compare with Fletcher in his younger days is that you can almost apply that to anyone, ie Gibson. I was always someone who thought Fletch would do well, I think he had more to his game technically and mentally than Clev has shown. If people really did want to compare them than at 24 Fletch was someone who had put in a number of MOTM performances in some of our biggest games. Clev hasn't done that from what I can remember.
That said I've always though Clev is/will be a good squad option to have and in fairness has been overworked over the festive period imo. I think he's been showing good signs over the last month or so and its understandable that his performances have dropped somewhat due to tiredness.
Next season will be interesting for him. With Fletch back (hopefully for good) than come the summer where I'm sure this time we will sign someone he will be behind Carrick, Fletch the new player and presumably Fellaini. That said maybe that competition will spur him on. It certainly didn't do Fletch any harm when we had the newly acquired hargreaves and Ando as well as scholes, carrick and giggs. He had a season on the fringes but stayed and fought his way back in. I don't think Clev has his quality but if he does get his head down and look to address the weaknesses in his game he can be a good option for us and it may do him some good to have to really earn his place rather than play out of necessity.
Fletcher will always be the prime example for me. He was shit and should've been sold to Everton. Phil Neville was superior and we let the wrong one go.
Oh, no, scratch that.
I fail to see why Cleverley won't do the same, and no one's ever attempted to change my mind on why he won't get better.
There's some fair points but people still keep referring to Cleverley's age. I'd say that after the same number of games Cleverley and Fletcher were at a fairly similar level. It was around this point in Fletcher's career when he made the step up. Cleverley does need to step up soon, but I'd still say he's only recently leaving a settling in period. It's just that he's seemed like part of the squad for so long, and considering his age, people don't think he'll get much/any better. He could.
Agree with IA4ever147
Fletcher wasnt shit, its just that sometimes fans dont see what the coaches and managers see.
Fletcher had all the right attributes back then but some couldnt see it and then once a few fans made their opinions known the whole thing just snowballed. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
There is a lot of similarity in the situation with Cleverley.
I remember in 1 game where Fletcher got absolute arseholes for giving away possession, I watched the game again and he lost the ball a couple of times in the first 10 minutes and then after that was impeccable. However because the complaints in the match thread were so vocal everyone carried on with that impression of that games performance. At the end of the game he ended up with the best passing stats but in the player ratings thread he got a 5 with everyone citing his giving the ball away.
Also Fletcher for me had stupid comparisons with Beckham. Fergie played him out on the right. Which did him no favours to be honest. You looking at a guy who is not quick and not the best of crossers out wide.
If Fletcher was played in the middle, I don't think fans would have been on his back at the start.
If Fletcher was played in the middle, I don't think fans would have been on his back at the start.
It actually did in the long term. Fergie didnt play him there by accident either.
I remember being incredibly annoyed with Fletcher picked ahead of Ronaldo on the wing in patches during 2003-04 season, he was very frustrating there while Ronaldo obviously got people excited. In midfield he was always very good mind which made it even more frustrating to see him on the wing so much. It was a deliberate move by Fergie that was supposed to help his long term development of certain set of skills though and it worked perfectly.
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