Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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Zen86 said:
Cleverley's a good support midfielder in that he doesn't control games, but his passing and moving works well with other players like Carrick. It evidently does not work with Fellaini, which was obvious even before the weekend.
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When the rest of the team is playing well he'll fit in nicely, his passing is neat, he's got a good first touch and he's willing to make himself available (though I do get annoyed with the amount of times he ends up wide for no reason) but also to give it back to the better players. The problem is when we're, or at least a lot of the key players aren't playing well when the problems with him show up. He doesn't actually offer anything else. He works hard but his positioning and lack of strength leave us defensively open, his passing is largely unambitious, he's not a goal threat or someone who can really hassle people in the way Fletcher and now Jones can. It's not enough to just keep the ball.

Welbeck has similar problems although not as extreme as he does have more talent, but both suffer from not really being able to impose themselves on games. When others aren't playing well then they don't offer much to compensate.

Either way he's a good squad player, as I said when most the team is looking good he fits in nicely as he helps to just keep things ticking but he shouldn't be a first eleven player.
 
Ash_G said:
Welbeck has similar problems although not as extreme as he does have more talent, but both suffer from not really being able to impose themselves on games. When others aren't playing well then they don't offer much to compensate.
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In fairness to Welbeck though, he's not really had a run in his favored position. Even when he's played on the left, for me, he offers almost everything one can ask of a player in that position defensively. He presses as well as anyone in the team, he is very quick off the ball, he has showed that he can link up nicely and he offers physicality.

I know you said it's not as extreme as Cleverley, but I just feel Welbeck's all around game gets a little unfair rating because of his recent bad finishing, and at times, poor decision making in the attacking third. Pretty much every time I see his name on the team sheet there is not someone else I would have picked.
 
Mersault said:
In fairness to Welbeck though, he's not really had a run in his favored position. Even when he's played on the left, for me, he offers almost everything one can ask of a player in that position defensively. He presses as well as anyone in the team, he is very quick off the ball, he has showed that he can link up nicely and he offers physicality.

I know you said it's not as extreme as Cleverley, but I just feel Welbeck's all around game gets a little unfair rating because of his recent bad finishing, and at times, poor decision making in the attacking third. Pretty much every time I see his name on the team sheet there is not someone else I would have picked.
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I rate Welbeck and think the talent is there but I think he and Clev are similar in that they're low risk players who keep it quite simple, well Welbeck does until he gets to the box where he seems to want to over complicate things. I think he can be a first teamer for us long term if he sorts that part of his game out, I just think atm regardless of where he plays both he and Clev can disappear when things aren't going our way.
 
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Zen86 said:
Cleverley's a good support midfielder in that he doesn't control games, but his passing and moving works well with other players like Carrick. It evidently does not work with Fellaini, which was obvious even before the weekend.
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It was even his unambitious passing that was the main problem in the last game. It's the fact that he decided to go into hiding rather than make himself available for a pass from our defenders.
 
Mersault said:
It's difficult to say whether he'll make the grade. When the team performs well, he performs well. When we need performances to lift us up, he's not one to step up. Someone on here mentioned that during our last game he was continually asking for the ball after running next to an opponent to be marked, then when he got the ball he immediately passed it back not allowing for any change to our formation or for any team mate to create a little space for themselves or make positive runs. His game on Sunday was indeed pointless.)
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The point of these runs are to drag the defender who covers Cleverley down and create space behind him for someone else to take. They are far from pointless but Rooney is too far up the pitch to help out with this. If we had a number 10 he would run down in to this space and receive the ball hence moving forward and then Cleverley would continue to run in to a new space.
 
Annahnomoss said:
The point of these runs are to drag the defender who covers Cleverley down and create space behind him for someone else to take. They are far from pointless but Rooney is too far up the pitch to help out with this. If we had a number 10 he would run down in to this space and receive the ball hence moving forward and then Cleverley would continue to run in to a new space.
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Of all the top teams our build up is probably the worse, no other top team deliver so many balls in the air or pointless passes to players who's only option is to return the pass. As a lot go good posters have mention is down to many reasons but one obvious problem is that midfield players like Clev and Fellaini hide themselves instead of making themselves available and give the defender more then one option to pass the ball.

ATM Cleverley don't contribute to our offensive, he isn't part of our build up and he isn't a good option to pass because of his limited ball control and that he hide instead of searching for free space. In any other top team he shouldn't even reach the bench, that's how bad it is.

Against Cardiff he played for full 94 minutes. It's chocking to say at least that Moyes didn't replace him earlier in the game. If the manager thinks that Anderson or whatever player we have isn't a better option then Cleverley then we are in extremely deep trouble. Not to mention that Fellaini where almost as bad.

Talking about him creating space for other is clutching the straws, have you ever seen Xavi or other quality midfielders doing this when their defensive players searching for passing options? Let's face it. ATM he isn't good enough playing as a starter for a team like United.




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7even said:
Of all the top teams our build up is probably the worse, no other top team deliver so many balls in the air or pointless passes to players who's only option is to return the pass. As a lot go good posters have mention is down to many reasons but one obvious problem is that midfield players like Clev and Fellaini hide themselves instead of making themselves available and give the defender more then one option to pass the ball.

ATM Cleverley don't contribute to our offensive, he isn't part of our build up and he isn't a good option to pass because of his limited ball control and that he hide instead of searching for free space. In any other top team he shouldn't even reach the bench, that's how bad it is.

Against Cardiff he played for full 94 minutes. It's chocking to say at least that Moyes didn't replace him earlier in the game. If the manager thinks that Anderson or whatever player we have isn't a better option then Cleverley then we are in extremely deep trouble. Not to mention that Fellaini where almost as bad.

Talking about him creating space for other is clutching the straws, have you ever seen Xavi or other quality midfielders doing this when their defensive players searching for passing options? Let's face it. ATM he isn't good enough playing as a starter for a team like United.




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Like I stated earlier I think Cleverley is a squad player and I talk from that point of view.

All the "Our player X is too bad to win against Cardiff that is why we drew" is pretty bizarre. Every single player in our team would be a star in theirs. Making a "best first eleven" out of the players we had available against Cardiff and the ones they have - would include 11 of the available players of ours.

Cleverley is way better than any of the central midfielders in Cardiff - we lost because we lost the most important battle, the tactical one.
 
Cleverley's biggest problem, and half the battle for a midfielder, is that he doesn't work anywhere near hard enough to make himself available for the easy pass. A central midfielder for a club like United is supposed to be the hub, in the sense that all moves run through him. With Cleverley, it's a case of games passing him by, because he doesn't get on the ball as much as he should. He doesn't even have to do anything special with the ball; it would be enough for him to just keep recycling the ball to more offensive players. He already does that, but relatively infrequently.
 
Feed Me said:
Cleverley's biggest problem, and half the battle for a midfielder, is that he doesn't work anywhere near hard enough to make himself available for the easy pass. A central midfielder for a club like United is supposed to be the hub, in the sense that all moves run through him. With Cleverley, it's a case of games passing him by, because he doesn't get on the ball as much as he should. He doesn't even have to do anything special with the ball; it would be enough for him to just keep recycling the ball to more offensive players. He already does that, but relatively infrequently.
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I disagree. He shows for the ball a lot. The problem is when he gets it he does next to nothing these days.

Against Cardiff he showed for the ball and came short a lot, especially in the first half, but our players chose to ignore him. At first I thought it was silly of them but then when they did start giving it to him only to get it straight back I realised why they were bypassing him: Tom's become so introvert and unwilling to take it on that they figured as they were gonna get it back quickly anyways they may as well ignore him.

That to me is the real issue with Tom Cleverley of today. He's not taking the ball and making things happen. I don't expect him to turn into Gazza but it would be nice if Cleverley could get the ball to feet and, if he sees there aren't any obvious passing options, actually run with it. That's the kind of thing you see from players like Wilshere or Gundogan, players Cleverley should be measuring himself against. If those guys get the ball and there's no obvious pass rather than always lay it off quickly, they'll turn and drive forward, committing defenders to open up the space to release a teammate into. Right now that's totally absent from Cleverley's game and he needs to develop it, fast. For his sake and Man Utd's.
 
Cleverley does show for the ball. The only problem is that he immediately passes it to the nearest red shirt. He's the master of the square pass. Which is why many think he had a poor game on Sunday. With him and the Big fecking Belgian in midfield everyone expected him to take some sort of responsibilty and try to make things from the centre of the park. Instead we got the usual sideways passes to Smalling, Fellaini, Rio and Evra. He gets the ball a lot but never does anything with it. It's like lesbians lots of touches and movement but no penetration.
 
Feed Me said:
Cleverley's biggest problem, and half the battle for a midfielder, is that he doesn't work anywhere near hard enough to make himself available for the easy pass. A central midfielder for a club like United is supposed to be the hub, in the sense that all moves run through him. With Cleverley, it's a case of games passing him by, because he doesn't get on the ball as much as he should. He doesn't even have to do anything special with the ball; it would be enough for him to just keep recycling the ball to more offensive players. He already does that, but relatively infrequently.
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Yeah I really wouldn't agree on that, I think Cleverley has no problems going "give me the ball" and flapping his arms around like a Wacky Wailing Inflatable Armed Tube Man, the problem is when he gets it he immediately just passes it back to that person or goes backwards. He has no drive, no ambition, I mean feck, at least Anderson, for all his faults, tries to pass the ball forward, he tries risky passes that will break the defense. Cleverley just sits there and is happy to do the safe thing all the time.
 
I think part of his problem is that what he's good at, the not-too-risky pass and move stuff, isn't all that helpful when we don't - well - move particularly well as a team. As has been noted frequently he would probably look better in a midfield three, with plenty of quick short passing - and plenty of movement. What we need from him here and now is something a bit more...assertive and inventive. And I'm not sure he's capable of that, frankly. In our system we would benefit enormously from having a player in the middle who is able to mix his safe passes up with more adventurous ones, who is able to carry the ball through the middle when the opportunity arises - we need Ryan Giggs with the natural instincts of an actual CM.

Cleverley is not that player. But I do think he would improve his game immediately if he became just a little more cocky - as it stands now for us I'd rather see him add some risk to his game, even if it makes us more vulnerable defensively. We have the attacking force to beat most teams - but we need a midfield that at least partly feeds these attackers: The push-it-out-wide-then-cross formula needs an alternative, especially given that our wingers aren't impressing anyone at the moment. Look at what a good, creative pass from the deep can do when you're having the likes of Rooney and RVP at the receiving end: Giggs nearly won the match for us on Sunday with his adventurous passing.
 
The passing arrows for Cleverley on Sunday had pretty much 90% sideways and backwards delivery.....and the remaining 10% that went forward didn't hit their intended target.

Not good enough against Cardiff City ffs. He is just the ultimate anonymous midfielder right now.
 
I personally don't think that he's an awful lot more safe than Anderson at the minute, in regards to his future here. Both of them are on the ropes at the moment(Anderson has been for a long time), but Cleverly will get the benefit of the doubt because he's from the academy, as mentioned here before.

Neither are showing nearly enough to be squad players here at the moment, never mind players that you'd have faith in starting in a league against as a team like Cardiff. I've always said that Cleverly will improve, but he's gone backwards since his promising debut, and I fear he's at a point of no return. I really hope not.
 
#07 said:
I disagree. He shows for the ball a lot. The problem is when he gets it he does next to nothing these days.

Against Cardiff he showed for the ball and came short a lot, especially in the first half, but our players chose to ignore him. At first I thought it was silly of them but then when they did start giving it to him only to get it straight back I realised why they were bypassing him: Tom's become so introvert and unwilling to take it on that they figured as they were gonna get it back quickly anyways they may as well ignore him.

That to me is the real issue with Tom Cleverley of today. He's not taking the ball and making things happen. I don't expect him to turn into Gazza but it would be nice if Cleverley could get the ball to feet and, if he sees there aren't any obvious passing options, actually run with it. That's the kind of thing you see from players like Wilshere or Gundogan, players Cleverley should be measuring himself against. If those guys get the ball and there's no obvious pass rather than always lay it off quickly, they'll turn and drive forward, committing defenders to open up the space to release a teammate into. Right now that's totally absent from Cleverley's game and he needs to develop it, fast. For his sake and Man Utd's.
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I disagree with that, I don't think he shows for the ball anywhere near the number of times he should. He also turns his back on the ball numerous times when our defenders have it, it astounds me. Surely a CM should never turn his back on the ball? Looking at the way Scholes and Giggs play the role you never see that happen, or Ramsey for Arsenal, he actually understands that the responsibility for always being available for the pass lies with him.
 
Feed Me said:
Cleverley's biggest problem, and half the battle for a midfielder, is that he doesn't work anywhere near hard enough to make himself available for the easy pass. A central midfielder for a club like United is supposed to be the hub, in the sense that all moves run through him. With Cleverley, it's a case of games passing him by, because he doesn't get on the ball as much as he should. He doesn't even have to do anything special with the ball; it would be enough for him to just keep recycling the ball to more offensive players. He already does that, but relatively infrequently.
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You'd say that was his biggest asset going back only two seasons ago. It's as if he think he's done enough to just stroll through games now, hiding for most of them. I said that it was from a lack of competition before, but that was before we brought in Fellaini.
 
I really don't know what's happened to him. He's never been one to do brilliant things on a football pitch but at least early on in his united career he was quicker in his thought process was quicker than those around him, and I thought yes, this is one definite strength he has that will always make sure hell be a solid performer at the very least. But he' seems to have lost that too. He's doing the same ponderous passing an decision making that the other players do but without having the individual brilliance to make a positive impact.
 
Shark22 said:
I personally don't think that he's an awful lot more safe than Anderson at the minute, in regards to his future here. Both of them are on the ropes at the moment(Anderson has been for a long time), but Cleverly will get the benefit of the doubt because he's from the academy, as mentioned here before.

Neither are showing nearly enough to be squad players here at the moment, never mind players that you'd have faith in starting in a league against as a team like Cardiff. I've always said that Cleverly will improve, but he's gone backwards since his promising debut, and I fear he's at a point of no return. I really hope not.
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I've said for a long time that the caf seemed to just conviniently decide he was better than Anderson, without him having done anything to prove that as far as I am concerned. He probably still just about has it in him to be a squad player here. The worry is, even with everyone fit, he's seemingly our best option. Shows how weak we are in there.

Anyway, I can't see him going anywhere, simply as he's an academy boy, and Moyes will be keen to show he 'understands the traditions of the club'. This is largely the reason why I said a week or so ago that I would not be adverse to us exchanging him for Morrison, as it would put us in the unique position of being able to get a better player in (or at least better prospect, if you wish), and still having an academy player and local boy doing the job.
 
The fact of the matter is that Jones is looking like our best bet at the moment, alongside Carrick. And I feel better (if not exactly safer) seeing Giggs on there rather than anyone out of Ando, Cleverley and Fellaini. This means that here and now we could use two new central midfielders. Fellaini will come in handy, I think, as a destroyer of sorts - and as an impact sub in a certain kind of match, for that matter. The other two are dangerously close to looking like deadwood. Depending on how much of a clear-out Moyes is planning on it isn't inconceivable Cleverley could be moved on: Carrick, New Man as the main pairing. New man II and Fellaini for backup. Phil in certain matches - perhaps Giggsy even continues for another season.

It's all speculation at this stage, obviously - but I haven't even mentioned Fletcher, who is an X factor in all this. As is arguably Powell. Anyway - Cleverley needs to step up, I doubt Moyes regards him as un-shiftable, so to speak.
 
I don't think he's a poor player or has no place at the club. He just looks lost at the moment. He was good for Wigan playing on the LW. He returns to us and plays very well against City, West Brom, Tottenham, and Arsenal. The Cleverley of '11 linked up well with team-mates and looked a dangerous player... He's proved before that he can be more adventurous with his passing, but I'll admit that 2013 has been a horrible year for him. With Carrick out, he should be trying to claim a spot next to him.
 
His career went to shit when he decided to start a family.. Football is number 2 now and it fecking shows when a player doesn't have the natural ability..
 
He's weaker physically than my arthritic nan. Hasn't got the bollocks to play at this club I'm afraid. Gibson didn't either but he offered us more than this lad because he could score a goal. Said it before but he's a boy lost in a man's world.
 
I've had enough of him now, he's terrible. Maybe I just notice more as I've grown to dislike him as a player, but he just breaks up our movement so much, sideways or back ways passing.
If he played for any other team we wouldn't want him anywhere near us. Get rid.
 
The entire point of his game is based on the fact that he doesn't have the confidence or is too scared to do anything with the ball.
 
Again it was a mystery why he played 90 minutes. I mean it's a mystery why he played at all, but still. I hope he fecks Moyes's daughter or wife so we don't have to see his non-existent performances anymore.
 
Started chuckling when Sandro twisted him inside out. Until the shot that is....
 
Stobzilla said:
Caf Fletcher circa 2003-2006 2.0
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Not at all. Fletch wasn't that good those years but he still never gave up and tried his best every time. Cleverley is the ultimate coward who is afraid of his shadow. All he does is pass the ball backwards. Caf's Liam Miller MK.2 is more appropriate.
 
Loan him in January as soon as we've bought (or signed on loan) one competent midfielder. There is nothing about him that suggests that he'll be good enough at the moment and it's not like he's a teenager anymore
 
I've done nothing but praise Cleverley over the past year. I like him. But, feck me, he's in horrendous form at the moment. He's hiding and he wants absolutely nothing to do with directly and positively influencing the game. There was a moment in the 44th minute when he received the ball. Kagawa made a lovely run and was free provided a good, weighted pass was played into him. What did he do? He stopped, waited for Rooney to arrive, passed it three yards, and then we unsurprisingly whacked it out wide to Valencia. A fecking garbage display and he has no business being at a club like United with this kind of mentality.
 
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