Unfortunately, playing for England really isn't a yardstick in which to be measured. Let us face facts, if the likes of Lennon, Walker, Milner or even Ashley Young can get games then, it doesn't really say much to be honest. As the England side needs to have its best players for the world cup, then neither of the above should even be nearer the chosen squad and neither should Cleverley, unless they want to take a beating.
Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
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Unfortunately, playing for England really isn't a yardstick in which to be measured. Let us face facts, if the likes of Lennon, Walker, Milner or even Ashley Young can get games then, it doesn't really say much to be honest. As the England side needs to have its best players for the world cup, then neither of the above should even be nearer the chosen squad and neither should Cleverley, unless they want to take a beating.
If one asked Cleverley his favoured position and formation, what do you think he would say? Because I have no idea what he brings to the team.
That happened for around 4 games and was the anomaly IMO. Even there I think that Ando was our best player in midfield, while our other favorite Ashley Young looked great. It didn't last long though, likely because they aren't as good as they looked in those games.
I'm not sure you even read my post or the conversation. I said that Cleverley was regularly making himself available for the ball then, which he doesn't seem to be doing much at the moment. Not that he was amazing because England were picking him.
I should have bolded the part I replied to. My bad. However, it still stands that he is not England quality, and England needs the best players it can get. If Hodgson picks him or any other player of the same standard then we might not as well go to Brazil. As for spraying the balls around, he did very little of that apart from passing to the defence and he bottles a great deal of 50/50 balls. It is even sad to say that even an injured Wilshere has more bottle than Cleverley.
it was less about England and more about a point in time. And where did I mention spraying balls around? If you want to have an England rant feel free but I don't see what it has to do with my post.
'Could be the best midfielder in Britain' - The Infallible One, 2011.
Phil Jones said that?
He's defiantly regressed since 2011. Seems to be playing within himself a lot more, and a bit scared to take a risk.
Seems to be a trend with our players actually.
Seems to be a trend with our players actually.
The most pointless midfielder I've seen.
No confidence in their own ability and no bollocks to seize the moment generally. We've got a few like that. Fergie once said that you "cannot be a shrinking violet at Manchester United" and not be found out.
Yes.
And Yes.
No confidence to turn on the ball and drive at defenders. Keeping it ultra-safe. Always deferring to someone else, waiting for a moment of magic from the forwards. Taking so long to decide what to do that the final ball ends up being a hoof into touch. You could say those things about virtually everyone in our side including Cleverley (although he's become so risk averse that he doesn't even bother putting the ball in the air so we can't accuse him of being a route one man).
Besides De Gea and our strikers there is nobody in the United team, Januzaj excluding, that is playing like they should be at a top club.
I would wager that Moyes doesn't see him as a long term solution like SAF clearly did. I would put him in the same bracket as Anderson, Young and Fabio in such that they are players Moyes doesn't have belief in and will be moved on when a suitable replacement is sourced.
Ha looks lost in the centre of the park area. Quite scary that he has been so poor and continuing to be pick for both club and country. I guess it really highlights our weakness.
Ha looks lost in the centre of the park area. Quite scary that he has been so poor and continuing to be pick for both club and country. I guess it really highlights our weakness.
I think he's been fair to everyone and that's why we didn't sell anyone in the summer. He's given everyone a chance to stake their claim and the only one that has taken it is the 18 year old kid he put in straight out of the youth team. I expect a huge clear out in the summer and Moyes to really put his mark on the squad, I am convinced he knows deep down that the main problem is CM.
I don't get the impression that he fully fancies him, but with him being new, and probably wanting to show that he understands and respects 'the traditions of the club' - I'd say Cleverley and Welbeck are pretty much conservation listed property.
He was putting in good performances for the majority of last season (before Madrid at home anyway) and has had a few decent albeit not fantastic games this season. Sunderland I thought he was very good. The extent of his regression is a bit overstated I think, but I do think he is playing within himself atm and not getting on the ball as much as he could.
A truly horrible performance from Tom yesterday.
Zero confidence in himself and didn't want to receive the ball off the back 4. Went standing behind Cardiff players so didn't have to take the pass.
Needs a spell on the sidelines but with our threadbare midfield I don't know if that's possible.
Zero confidence in himself and didn't want to receive the ball off the back 4. Went standing behind Cardiff players so didn't have to take the pass.
Needs a spell on the sidelines but with our threadbare midfield I don't know if that's possible.
I'm not sure. I think we have developed a different standard of supporters of other big clubs in assessing 'good' midfield performances over recent years. Cleverley has never been anything special. In his first month in the United team, he did threaten to suggest he could be real top class, but since then, he's at best been competent I think.
I think it's a lot cooler to slate Anderson, but I have seen little to suggest that Cleverley has established himself as a better player than him to be honest.
Should have signed James McCarthy in the summer, far better player than Cleverley.
I have little or no positives about cleverley's performance yesterday. I thought he was pretty poor,maybe thats why fellaini looked so much better.
We need better than both.
He receives the ball in CM, lays it off to a defender, then turns his back on them and runs up the pitch. Is this normal? Are we actually instructing him to do this? Surely he should be the one tasked with getting the ball off the defenders and then advancing it?
I know he's no Scholes but he seems to play the game completely differently to him, Scholes always wanted the ball, even if he was playing with Carrick, and knew he was the one with the passing ability and was meant to be the fulcrum of the team. Cleverley just doesn't. He just looks devoid of confidence in his own ability and nervous these days, I highly doubt he'll make it here now personally.
I know he's no Scholes but he seems to play the game completely differently to him, Scholes always wanted the ball, even if he was playing with Carrick, and knew he was the one with the passing ability and was meant to be the fulcrum of the team. Cleverley just doesn't. He just looks devoid of confidence in his own ability and nervous these days, I highly doubt he'll make it here now personally.
I was at the game and felt sorry for TC at the time because I felt Fellaini was dire -- forced myself to watch recording yesterday and we had a one man midfield and that was TC, he at least worked hard while Fellaini was not only poor he was lazy.
I know midfielders in the south african premier league better than him. We could get one in and have his services at a snippet of what we're paying this lad for his extremely low level of play. Players of his standard don't play for clubs our size. This whole 'home grown' nonsense is going to cost us games. We should only be keeping players good enough for this club, he just simply isn't.
Where's petrucci and what's he up to? He could surely be producing better performances than these clowns masquerading as midfielders.
Where's petrucci and what's he up to? He could surely be producing better performances than these clowns masquerading as midfielders.
Do you understand what he is doing when he does that?
I could hazard a guess but do tell me.
Do you take pleasure in having pop shots at SAF?
I don't think anyone on this forum has ever suggested that SAF is/was infallible, or close to it. Simply, that he knew more than the cretinous wannabe's on the internet.
I don't see how these jokes are funny. They only serve to make you look like a bellend.
I'm sure you'll be grinning and laughing to yourself because you've snared a response, so I'll point out for the record that I'm not angry or annoyed, nor did I feel personally offended in anyway at your joke. I'm just pointing out how childish it is. And if you were indeed grinning to yourself then that further enforces my point
But yeah, top banter LOL good one! :thumbs up bro:
Do you take pleasure in having pop shots at SAF?
I don't think anyone on this forum has ever suggested that SAF is/was infallible, or close to it. Simply, that he knew more than the cretinous wannabe's on the internet.
I don't see how these jokes are funny. They only serve to make you look like a bellend.
I'm sure you'll be grinning and laughing to yourself because you've snared a response, so I'll point out for the record that I'm not angry or annoyed, nor did I feel personally offended in anyway at your joke. I'm just pointing out how childish it is. And if you were indeed grinning to yourself then that further enforces my point
Oh do go away.
Stop making jokes on the internet you guys, it's not what it's for.
Lol, that was actually funny. Anyway, have a nice day.
Have a wonderful evening. And may the odds be ever in your favor.
I think he is getting slated a bit too hard. One has to consider the fact that Cleverley and Fellaini were always going to have to make a career-high performance to dominate the midfield battle 2 vs 3. They are a really poor pairing together and I think Anderson/Giggs should have been involved from the start yesterday with one of them.
Cleverley is really good at what he does, which is play safe passes and keep possession. In a similar manner Fellaini is good at safe passes and keeping possession. As Rooney was so far up the pitch there were no safe options for them which meant they were going to fail from the start.
Usually we can afford losing the midfield battle because Carrick has the passing range to bypass the entire midfield and find our strikers. Cleverley/Fellaini doesn't have that ability at all, so even if they did poorly it was very expected.
Cleverley is really good at what he does, which is play safe passes and keep possession. In a similar manner Fellaini is good at safe passes and keeping possession. As Rooney was so far up the pitch there were no safe options for them which meant they were going to fail from the start.
Usually we can afford losing the midfield battle because Carrick has the passing range to bypass the entire midfield and find our strikers. Cleverley/Fellaini doesn't have that ability at all, so even if they did poorly it was very expected.
And that's a positive thing is it?
If we were a lower/mid table club whose philosophy was to shut out teams then maybe that'd be helpful, but we're not, and that 'trait' is pointless here.
You add that on to the fact that he's not particularly great defensively and doesn't contribute goals/assists to the team and what you have is, quite frankly, a pointless midfielder.
His mobility makes him a better partner for Carrick than Fellaini and vice versa.
Other than that, he doesn't bring enough to the team, especially now when he's having his worst run of form for us so far.
Other than that, he doesn't bring enough to the team, especially now when he's having his worst run of form for us so far.
I think you are being very nice describing his defensive abilities as I think it is pretty bad rather than "Not great".
However he is a Manchester United raised squad-player who is a pretty solid squad-player. He has shown that in the right formations he can be part of a team that beats almost any team in the world.
I do think that we pushed our central midfielders in a shark-tank against Cardiff and now we choose to mock them for not doing better. Cleverley certainly showed us his weaknesses though no doubt about it, he is defensively not solid and both Fellaini and him are offensively non-creative and are really poor at longer-balls.
Cleverley's a good support midfielder in that he doesn't control games, but his passing and moving works well with other players like Carrick. It evidently does not work with Fellaini, which was obvious even before the weekend.
It's difficult to say whether he'll make the grade. When the team performs well, he performs well. When we need performances to lift us up, he's not one to step up. Someone on here mentioned that during our last game he was continually asking for the ball after running next to an opponent to be marked, then when he got the ball he immediately passed it back not allowing for any change to our formation or for any team mate to create a little space for themselves or make positive runs. His game on Sunday was indeed pointless. Of course he was not helped by playing with Fellaini in the middle but I do wonder what all the hype back in the day was about...for me he's not showed a lot of bravery in 50 50 situations, he asks for the ball in pointless situations, there is often no logic to his passing - and that's coming from someone who really rated him in the past.
The problem is Moyes's however. When there is no Carrick, maybe he has to go for a more positive player like Anderson (faulty though he is) next to Fellaini. Or really bite the bullet and play our currently best option in midfield, Rooney. Even though almighty prince Wayne might have a tantrum - he is easily the best we've got after Carrick and alongside Carrick at the minute. In the meantime, I'm sure the club is looking at every possible option in January (loans included)
Maybe Cleverley could do with a loan (if we sign some players)
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