Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances

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The Don said:
Carrick was always capable of running a game. Cleverly hides away from any responsibility. He looks decent when he's in a 3, he's an outlet and can just be busy. When in a two there's more onus on him to create, or run with the ball, or at least keep hold of it for a bit. The more I see him, the more I realise that he gets rid of the ball as quick as possible, he' s afraid of it.
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Um, no. He's always been the one to sit back, shield the defense. Not drive into the midfield like Keane.
 
Glanville95 said:
Didn't watch the game tonight, but it's easy to have a guess at how he fared going off this thread.

The argument about him lacking responsibility is completely true, he does. I don't think he fears receiving a pass, but he certainly plays well within himself and plays as someone who is void of confidence in doing anything progressive or proactive with it.

He's someone that doesn't excel in any given area in midfield and his strengths are keeping the passing tempo high with quick short passing and retaining possession. As far as attacking play goes, his is none existent however and I do believe that is largely down to fear. He doesn't have the incision or artistry to combine in the final third or pick out a penetrating pass on a regular basis and he is fully aware of that.

I think he would benefit from playing in a midfield three, where our attacking play would be more fluid and expressive, as opposed to our very rigid and structured system currently used, which hinders his game a bit. In a three the midfielders have less of an onus on them to be massively influential unlike a two. I see that being the only way to really bring the best out of him.
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He had an excellent game against Norwich although the majority on here wont have seen it or understood it. He was psoitive, continuously cleared spaces, made himself available, looked to play forward and covered and tracked. he was looking to shut off passing planes and also create passing lanes. All you have to do to see when he does this is keep an eye on his head and how often he is looking around and then reacting to what he sees. He made space for Adnan to flourish and was always available in support. His main weakness is he doesnt run with the ball however when he has so many players around him who can then he does a great job of clearing spaces with dummy runs etc to enable those others such as Adnan to be able to do it.
I thought he was one of our better players tonight, other players were given space to try things because of what he did on and off the ball. The criticism in here at times is completely bonkers. His best game in a few weeks and anyone who thinks he had a bad game tonight is completely and utterly clueless.

He does excel in the midfield, he excels in keeping the ball speed up and creating spaces for others to move in to. He was involved quite frequently in tonights attacks, both on the ball and off the ball. He certainly has the artistry and incision to combine in the final third, he has shown it many times but the anti Cleverely brigade have become conveniently blind to what he does.
In the match day threads you will see posters who only ever comment on Cleverely when he makes a mistake, they never say a thing about his good stuff and with respect to his mistakes they happen less frequently than a lot of our players. Its exactly like Fletcher copped in here a few years ago. It would be really funny if it wasnt so embarrassing to see.

He had an excellent game tonight.
 
Stack said:
He had an excellent game against Norwich although the majority on here wont have seen it or understood it. He was psoitive, continuously cleared spaces, made himself available, looked to play forward and covered and tracked. he was looking to shut off passing planes and also create passing lanes. All you have to do to see when he does this is keep an eye on his head and how often he is looking around and then reacting to what he sees. He made space for Adnan to flourish and was always available in support. His main weakness is he doesnt run with the ball however when he has so many players around him who can then he does a great job of clearing spaces with dummy runs etc to enable those others such as Adnan to be able to do it.
I thought he was one of our better players tonight, other players were given space to try things because of what he did on and off the ball. The criticism in here at times is completely bonkers. His best game in a few weeks and anyone who thinks he had a bad game tonight is completely and utterly clueless.

He does excel in the midfield, he excels in keeping the ball speed up and creating spaces for others to move in to. He was involved quite frequently in tonights attacks, both on the ball and off the ball. He certainly has the artistry and incision to combine in the final third, he has shown it many times but the anti Cleverely brigade have become conveniently blind to what he does.
In the match day threads you will see posters who only ever comment on Cleverely when he makes a mistake, they never say a thing about his good stuff and with respect to his mistakes they happen less frequently than a lot of our players. Its exactly like Fletcher copped in here a few years ago. It would be really funny if it wasnt so embarrassing to see.

He had an excellent game tonight.
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I don't have anything against Cleverley, nor am I a massive fan of his. When I watch a player I try to view his performance objectively on that game, despite what I may think of him as a player.

As I said, his strengths are his ability to add more tempo and urgency to our play with his quick passing and energy, while retaining possession with short, simple passing and being an open option for teammates. But I don't think he excels either defensively or offensively. He's a 'tidy' player, but he is capable of more.

If he played well tonight, I'll take your word for it, he looked like he did quite well going off the extended highlights. Still, that doesn't change my view of him. He is a rather safe and cautious player, seldom does he look to impose himself on a game with an incisive forward pass, or even displaying his range of passing and I think that mostly stems from a belief in his ability or confidence in his current form.

He will regularly find himself in the first team, as poor performance can still warrant a first team berth when his midfield competition isn't that strong. The fact that he isn't very positive or proactive might honestly come from complacency.

He's a good squad player and option to have though, I just don't want him to play so within himself.
 
Yeah complacency and confidence are always good easy options to throw around, they require a lack of thinking and observing to use as reasons...

Maybe he is playing to instruction??. Maybe he has a particular job to do as part of the overall team strategy??. Maybe what he does enables others to play in certain ways??. Maybe there are multiple roles and jobs in football teams, that could explain why you dont see 11 Wayne Rooneys in the outfield......
 
Stack said:
Yeah complacency and confidence are always good easy options to throw around, they require a lack of thinking and observing to use as reasons...

Maybe he is playing to instruction??. Maybe he has a particular job to do as part of the overall team strategy??. Maybe what he does enables others to play in certain ways??. Maybe there are multiple roles and jobs in football teams, that could explain why you dont see 11 Wayne Rooneys in the outfield......
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It's nothing to do with being an 'easy option'. I have observed his technical ability as a reason in which he doesn't excel in any given area also, but football isn't purely about the technical side of things. A lot of it can be psychological however and that is perfect reasoning. It actually shows a lack of expansive thinking on your part if you think contrary to that.

I said in my initial post, that our style somewhat hinders him also, but if you want to choose to ignore that then fine. Playing in a two man midfield requires more responsibility from a midfielder than that in a three man midfield. The defensive side of his game has improved a lot this season, his improved positioning and awareness is something that curbs his natural attacking instincts or willingness to venture forward, so that is understandably why he might be a bit more conservative. Still, he plays within himself.

There you go; points on psychological and technical issues. Happy now? I have to fecking spell it out for you.
 
Good half from Cleverley. I really do hope he can pass the ball forward more, he's got more quality than he shows sometimes.
 
Looking really sharp and mobile out there. Was a bit concerned when he went off because of his vision. But seems he is ok.
 
Yeah he's taken the added responsibility due to Carrick not being in the side. Very good performance from him.

The defensive side of his game has become very, very good.
 
This is the best performance I've seen from him in a long while.

Actually starting to wonder if there really is something about the suggestion that Carrick himself is a problem for our CM due to a lack of mobility - not just Carrick's partner at any given time.
 
marjen said:
Actually starting to wonder if there really is something about the suggestion that Carrick himself is a problem for our CM due to a lack of mobility - not just Carrick's partner at any given time.
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Movement support is absolutely crucial for a player like Cleverley. Against Norwich and here is the perfect example of why he doesn't work with Carrick. A shame he's had to be withdrawn through injury though.
 
He plays better with a mobile person next to him. He keeps things ticking and rolling. His movement is good and it helps when the person next to him is mobile enough to follow him. At times it can leave us short if we get caught on the counter, but him and Jones were putting themselves about and it helped our attacking play in the first half.
 
Cleverley always looks good when the rest of the team is playing well though, the problem is when we're struggling, he never tries to take control of the game and make things happen for us, which is something a Man Utd midfielder should do.
 
I hope that his injury is nothing serious, when you're having problems with your head there's always a worry.
 
Glad to see him get the credit he deserves in here.
Looked equally as good (if not better) against Sunderland before he got injured then one poor game post injury and he's written off again. It's annoying.
Anyway, I've probably written it in numerous other threads but he adds so much movement/mobility and tempo to our midfield. Great passing stats posted above too.
Nice to see him take control in midfield in Carrick's absence.
 
Was very good today and once again the injury bug hits and he is forced out for a period of time. Just can't get a break! Clearly should be playing ahead of Fellaini as Carricks partner.
 
Was a strange one; Moyes said he had double vision. We're pretty much screwed if Carrick and him are both out at the same time.
 
That was much better. He needs to do that more often with his movement - that is his main strength, and a big reason why our midfield duo was sufficient for the most part last year.
 
A fit Cleverley is so important to us right now as he is the only player we have that can really excel in the position he plays in......he looked great today which was brilliant to see...the real test of what he is made of will be the Arsenal game
 
Very pleasing display from him. Hopefully he is back soon, it seems he will be. Will need him for the Arsenal game.
 
Has his injury reminded anyone on Scholes, and his problems with eyes long time ago?
 
Really happy to come in here and not see negativity for a change


I think I agree with those that say he needs a mobile partner, it's why he and Anderson worked well together. But I do think he would be best in a midfield 3.
 
Genius Me! said:
Really happy to come in here and not see negativity for a change


I think I agree with those that say he needs a mobile partner, it's why he and Anderson worked well together. But I do think he would be best in a midfield 3.
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This is the problem, really. Carrick's more suited to a three, Cleverley's more suited to a three and Anderson is more suited to a three. Any two of them don't really provide enough as a duo in both an attacking or defensive or attacking sense, so we're stuck so long as we play a 2 man midfield. Carrick/Cleverley is the safe bet going by last year, but that partnership is crying out for a technical, creative player to drop deep and link up with Cleverley. We don't get the full benefit of having someone like Carrick in our team playing this way, and we become reliant on both having good games for our midfield to excel.

It didn't matter when we had Scholes and Carrick, because Carrick would always hold the line and Scholes would always control the game; that was the very essence of their performances even if they were off form. Neither Cleverley nor Carrick are good enough to control a game like Scholes in the centre though, so we rely on them both working in tandem and having confident and controlled performances. This puts an unreasonable amount of pressure on Cleverley, who is simply nothing like the player Scholes was and should be playing more of a supportive act. Carrick himself is restricted in how much he can offer here because of how much having Cleverley next to him puts the defensive burden on him, yet Cleverley is really the only one with the right movement to make it work! Annoying situation.
 
Yeah, but then we have too many strikers/wingers to really play a 433. But I wouldn't mind seeing a team with a midfield 3 and then Rooney/rvp/Januzaj as the top 3. But then you still have Welbeck, Kagawa, Valencia, nani, young, Hernandez on the sidelines.
 
Does anyone think he's improved since his highly impressive start to the 2011/12 season?
 
He's more disciplined but by doing that I think he's lost his edge somewhat. He's playing well though imo. Has a higher pass completion than Carrick this year. But it entirely depends on what job Dave has given him, if he's meant to be creating then he's not doing that great. But if he's meant to be disciplined and keeping the ball moving then he's doing very well.
 
I think Cleverley's playing deeper, probably on the manager's instructions. It makes him rather less exciting to watch, but he's doing all the simple things well. Until such time partners a different type of player to Carrick in midfield, or if Rooney is willing to regularly drop deep as he did previously, he'll just need to adapt to this new role.

I don't think he has regressed, he's just developing differently to suit the teams needs.
 
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