Tom Cleverley | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter Bebe
- Start date
- Status
Not sure how/why he went from a confident attacking midfielder/winger to a meek CM.
on the ball yes. Off the ball Fellaini did more defensive work by a mile. Cleverley made 0 tackles, 0 interceptions.
He didn't play well today but I think one of our biggest problems is that we have no ideal partnership for central midfield that would bring the best out of both players.
I don't think he will fulfill his potential with us unless we switch to higher pressing and more off the ball movement.
What's the 'best' of Cleverley though? He's basically just a pretty good all rounder who excels at nothing. He's a poor version of Aaron Ramsey.
For me, he's never been the same player since he got crocked by that twat at Bolton.
He's an attacking midfielder. Playing closer to goal would help for a start, then put an actual mobile defensive midfielder who closes play next to him and you'll have someone who can play in a slightly deeper role.
I watched the game again, watched Cleverley closely because of all the criticism and same deal, came away wondering what the feck so many of you are seeing. He was nowhere near as bad as the shite being posted on here.
He's just very limited in ability.
Wouldn't get game time at any of the other big PL sides but we have such a shit midfield he does here.
Wouldn't get game time at any of the other big PL sides but we have such a shit midfield he does here.
He's an attacking midfielder with no creativity and not a great eye for goal.
Not a very 'attacking' midfielder.
He's always rusty when he's just returning to the team after injury (happens a lot), he plays badly and then people write him off and often he gets dropped for the next game. Give him a decent run in the team and he'll prove to be much better than people think, and he often shows, IMO.
So we'd have to kick Carrick and Fellaini out and sign Vidal for him to be a really good midfielder? Well thats not going to happen.
Exactly. Its the same rubbish with Anderson. People say he needs to play further up the pitch, but he's shown none of the qualities to play there
I wouldn't mind seeing him play with less defensive responsibility, I mean I don't think he'll ever be a definitive starter here but playing alongside Carrick doesn't get the best from him IMO.
Whats less defensive responsibility than making 0 tackles and 0 interceptions?
This
I mean he has the talent.
But i'm very disappointed with Clevz in 2013. He's like a ghost in some matches.
He must do more and try more......even if it goes sometimes wrong.
Yes, you will find that to be the case for most players. Infact there are people unhappy with Carrick's performance and specially with his passing yesterday. He was the only one trying to thread balls through the middle and had more than half a dozen successful ones yet he is getting stick for few that got intercepted. That was bound to happen given how congested the midfield was.
For a comeback game, Cleverley wasn't bad. He could have done better for their first goal but it was mostly to do with Smalling's positioning. You can't blame him either, this non sense of playing the center back over a right back just for height advantage has to stop. I can remember Rafael doing well the last time when there was concerns about height even winning a couple of headers against Crouch.
Are you sure you two even know what you're shitting on about? Should we just forget the 11 years of development at the club and on loan as an attacking midfielder who player predominantly forward and in attacking positions on the left and right because he's played 7 months as a deeper midfielder part of a two man midfield? Not really in his natural position?
That's the only way we can get him in to the team at the moment because there isn't another genuine central midfielder apart from Fellaini who is still bedding in and Anderson who is far to tactically ill-disciplined to play in a midfield two with Carrick. We have two no10's fighting for that position in a 4-2-3-1 and no visible signs of wanting to switch to 4-3-3.
Again for the funny pages "He's an attacking midfielder with no creativity and not a great eye for goal. Not a very 'attacking' midfielder."
Not sure he's an attacking midfielder as he does not make assists or score enough goals
He is not an attacking midfielder, ffs.
He is a winger/midfielder ala David Beckham. He started out as that with us during the pre-season 2 seasons back, but SAF preferred him to play the midfield role. And for people criticizing him and asking the point of him being in the team, he just coming back from an injury. Of course he would have looked rusty!
He is a winger/midfielder ala David Beckham. He started out as that with us during the pre-season 2 seasons back, but SAF preferred him to play the midfield role. And for people criticizing him and asking the point of him being in the team, he just coming back from an injury. Of course he would have looked rusty!
Its pretty evident that we need to inject some serious quality in CM.
He's a 'winger/midfielder'... But not an attacking midfielder?......... Okay.
He is in the ilk of David Beckham. Do you consider Beckham to be an attacking midfielder?He's a 'winger/midfielder'... But not an attacking midfielder?......... Okay.
feck it, I guess we're completely ignoring his youth development and loan spell. I'm out.
He's a 'winger/midfielder'... But not an attacking midfielder?......... Okay.
feck it, I guess we're completely ignoring his youth development and loan spell. I'm out.
He is 24 how long do we have to wait for him to produce this form? I'm not saying he's a bad player but attacking midfielder, really!
Generally wingers are part of the midfield that attack unless they are wingbacks or wing forwards which can easily be defined. They aren't supposed to really do much battling for the ball. Would you say Beckham had the ability to win the ball if he was played in and would you play Beckham in a midfield two with no closing tackling defensive midfielder?
We're on the same page here. TC is not a battling central midfielder that can play in a midfield two, it's completely out of his natural ability/role/comfort zone.
Shit, I guess I am not out at all.
]What form are we talking about? He's not playing his naturally developed role. He's playing a ball winning tight closing midfield role in a midfield two that doesn't support his quick pass and move style attacking instincts. When he plays in an attacking position that doesn't require deep battling and/or in the no10 role then you can criticize his form and skill-set. But while Rooney and Kagawa (and probably Giggs and whoever else) in the pecking order it's not going to happen. He's been shoehorned into this deeper role because his genuine ability as an attacking midfielder but he's not playing next to the right type of player. Clear evidence of that is when he produced playing beside Anderson a few seasons ago. Someone who is mobile and moves the ball and moves with him through midfield.
Sorry, but that's FM bollocks. Nani is a winger (part of the attack), and so is Valencia, but would you consider both of them as Attacking Midfielders?
Beckham can play in a midfield two. He had that tackling ability (not as much as a proper CM, but still) and positional sense to play there. Same goes for Cleverley and he has shown that last season that he can turn out high intensity performances. It was just that Stoke crowded out the area, due to which both him and Kagawa suffered. Adding to the fact that he is coming back from a calf injury and was suddenly thrusted in the team yesterday.
Well....... Yeah. Considering they aren't wing forwards who never return to track their man. Of course they're fecking midfielders. They get back and defend in midfield if need be. It'd be daft to say someone like Valencia who is known for getting back and helping out his fullback was not part of the midfield.
Could play you mean? (Considering he's now retired) And at what stage of his career? Genuinely curious because this seems to be a bit of an outlandish claim. Beckham is generally known for his passing ability and I am happy to concede that he was useful in a midfield role because of it. Much like Del Piero right now is playing as a no9 for Sydney but is so slow he gets by on his technical ability in a much inferior league. Not saying that is what suited Beckham but at the top of his game he was always a winger and to me a winger is an attacking midfielder. Not an 'attacking midfielder' but a midfielder who plays in attack.
Cleverley has the ability to battle in central midfield as well. But he gets bogged down so much doing so that when he tries to break out and link the play from deep he gets no movement assistance from Carrick as I defined above with his compatibility to the role when he featured with Anderson.
Cleverley may have played as an attacking midfielder at youth and on loan at a championship side but he is simply not talented enough to play that role at United. His best bet is as a central midfielder, hence him playing there.
The only time he's genuinely gotten a run there for United is in pre-season after his loan spell in which he showed an immeasurable amount of class and ability. Even netting some impressive goals. Until he gets another run in those positions at United you can't say that 'he's not talented enough to do it' he's not had the chance to play as a no10 at all at United since then.
He's certainly talented enough to do it if you go back and explore his ability in that very season he featured there in pre-season. Even if you go back and watch the games that he was paired with the more mobile partner in Anderson in which we scored 24 goals (conc 4) in the opening fixtures. He was playing a completely different role in the transition in that season because he was backed out of the deep positions by a mobile partner willing to carry the ball and return it over the advantage line and it's completely different to our build up right now with Carrick in the side.
But like everyone else seems to be doing I guess we should ignore it and not bother to watch him progress in a different role we should just accept that he's not good enough to play in more attacking positions because of his lack of ability in a role that doesn't suit his strengths.
Of course at the top of his game Beckham was a winger, I am just saying he could and has played in a midfield two back then. Also, when I compare TC and DB, I am comparing their skill sets which are almost the same (Of course TC is on a lower level than DB).
TC is currently the dynamic midfielder that we have. He is the one player who can bring out the ball from defense and link it to the attack. And we need Carrick to fill in the gaps which are created when Cleverley steps out from his place.
Yesterday was a collective failure from the midfield, and Cleverley alone wasn't responsible for that. Even Carrick's passing was off yesterday. And you can't discount that he had an injury and Moyes had almost ruled him out on Friday. You just can't expect him to have a great immediately.
TC's come through the ranks playing in that role. I mean on loan at Watford he impressed scoring goals. Call it the Championship call it whatever but it can't be dismissed. He simply has not had a chance in his natural role at United apart from the odd game here and there. Never any trusted and critically given role to play to his strengths.
Not really sure I can agree on Beckham's ability to play centrally here. But it's a side point that there is no point arguing about.
Not disagreeing with that but he's not exactly brilliant on the ball and doesn't have a better than average passing range. It's not a slight against him in any way, however what he does have is smart movement. He'll play a good short pass and he'll drive into space to get one back. He needs a player as equally effective in that type of role for him to flourish. When you dish off to a player like Carrick and move forward into space the likelihood of you getting the ball back is very slim. Carrick rarely pushes forward on the ball and he likes to hit passes sharp and early. Completely negating the way TC plays.
Better academy players left this club. There isn't much place for sentimentality if you want to be on the top. Seriously yesterday he gave a Liam Miller performance, a performance when it was totally justified to question his existense. We played with 10 man for the majority of the last game yesterday.
Anyway, we are short on midfield and of course he'll stay here but the massive potential people say he has is only a wishful thinking. Until now he has shown that he is only marginally better than Gibson, and is simply not good enough for us. I have heard people saying that he's a late bloomer, that he'll become great etc but I always feel more confident with Ando on the side, and I think that Ando should have left the club a few years ago. We should inject a serious quality of midfielders and if that means that the useless Cleverley (like he is most of the times) will get out of the club, so be it. Or we can resign Richardosn, Gibson and Eagles and play a midfield four from players of our academy.
I'm not quite as confident as I have been, but I still think there's a good chance he can come good.
It was only about this age that Fletcher finally stopped being everybody' favourite kicking-post.
It was only about this age that Fletcher finally stopped being everybody' favourite kicking-post.
Award winning over the top bollocks spouting.
Made all the more absurd when you read that he he keeps on putting Anderson as a better alternative
I think we're on some midfield-go-round thing, jumping from one extreme to the other. After Fellaini's performances it looks like Cleverley is the possible 'solution' to fix our problems, after he turns out not to be the solution, we're going to ask for another midfielder - seems like Anderson is next in the queue. It's almost as our memory's being flashed every time and we can't wake up from the nightmare.
you feckin mug.booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
You missed out Giggs!
I do think that if we somehow managed to gather some votes, it would turn out that he's our best midfielder out of those 3. ( as he's played very well against Sociedad and Liverpool )
Fun times.
Only in the mind of one poster. I presume Moyes will go in for at least one top class midfielder in the next 2 transfer windows.
- Status