Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances

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Xander45 said:
:lol: That's one of the most preposterous things I've read on here, and that takes some doing! He's played for us about a dozen times, with most of those being very good or very promising looking performances. After tonight, out of position and just back from injury, he's suddenly a guy that "goes missing way too often".

I repeat :lol:
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My point is based on the fact he is young and needs time. Have we been watching different games? Against Ajax we were totally bossed in midfield and he was no where to be seen. This isn't the only time this has happened,there have been a handful of other games whether being from the bench or starting that he hasn't stamped his authority on games. Yes he has only played ten games, and in these games he hasn't been the midfield maestro he is being made out to be, but more often than not has been quiet.

A lot of people on here are getting very top red if some so much as says he had a bad game, whilst dismissing the fact that the people saying this often agree that he is a quality player who has also had a handful of good games but still has work to do and that he will be inconsistent, whether he has been injure or not...

And for what it's worth I missed half the game tonight and from what I saw it was a poor team performance against a good side who wanted it more, and thus no individual deserves stick more so than anyone else.
 
Rooney1987 said:
Who called him a savior or the kingpin of the team or claiming him to be Xavi.

It's sad really, you can't praise young players anymore without the overrated/overhyped lines coming out after a bad game or 2.

He is a very good young player. Some of us had the chance watching in the United youth teams, then go on loan to Watford in the championship and then make the step up to Wigan in the PL. Not just judging on 8 PL games.
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Yes we all know he is a tidy player, but he has been hyped up incredibly on here, you surely can't deny that. People were saying every game we were beaten it would be different had he been available. When in reality, whilst he brings undoubted quality to the table, he also brings a certain rawness that will no doubt be ironed out. People saying he should be first team for England after he showed promise earlier on in the season are off the mark.

I think he will succeed at United, I think that much is obvious, but I also think people are expecting to big of an impact from him to early.
 
He was being fecking played on the wings, against the team who outplayed us in both the legs in his first start after an injury layout. Yes he did play poorly, but let's not change the excellent start he made for us.
 
He produced a very good, direct piece of midfield play that led to Young's early chance. Struggled a little overall but then he would, wouldn't he? He hasn't played any football and comes up against a superb side.

I take encouragement from that early piece of play though. Thats the sort of thing he'll be producing for us regularly once he is back up to speed.
 
He's barely played a match in months so it's obvious he wouldn't be at his best and playing him on the wings is just bizarre.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
The last few pages is like a microcosm of the CAF. :lol:

Please comeback Tom->Need him so badly->Back from injury Yeaaaaaaa->He was great in his 20 min comeback Yeaaaaa-> He's starting Yeaaaaaaaaaaaa->feck, he was shit

Poor Tom. Great prospect but way too much expectation on him.
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Are those kind of comments from the same posters? Can you give an example of starting of somebody saying please come back Tom and then posting he's shit? If so I'd love to read it.
 
londonredmaniac said:
he's also been, for the majority, ineffective in that position.
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That's not true at all. Was Watford's player of the season, playing almost exclusively out wide.

His problems last night were much more down to a lack of sharpness than the position he was playing. That and being part of a team that was getting it's arse kicked.

Still, the 90 minutes will have done him good. That's the main thing.
 
KM said:
He was being fecking played on the wings, against the team who outplayed us in both the legs in his first start after an injury layout. Yes he did play poorly, but let's not change the excellent start he made for us.
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too much common sense there for those who have an agenda about us not buying players...and apparantly suddenly we are crap.


...oh and the Premiership is dross...so it means nothing even if we win it.
 
Red Dreams said:
too much common sense there for those who have an agenda about us not buying players...and apparantly suddenly we are crap.


...oh and the Premiership is dross...so it means nothing even if we win it.
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You don't have to have an 'agenda' to have doubts over a player. Certainly no more than anyone who has the opposite opinion.
 
You can't blame Cleverley, considering he'd just come back from injury once again after a pretty stop-start season for him. Coming back to our toughest game of the season against a team that don't give you a second on the ball was hardly going to do him any favours.

He was shit, but it's hardly a performance to judge him on.
 
In the beginning of the Serie A the italians were light years behind the British in terms of football. What did they do? They employed British players and they became better. After a couple of years they learnt how to counter the British style of game and they became less reliant on the British players. Same thing (at a lesser degree) happened in the EPL during the 90s. South European players like Berkamp, Cantona, Zola and Ravanelli had an instrumental role in improving the EPL.

I dont see the reason behind slating one player or another. The reason why the Spanish are so superior to anyone else is that they created a football style whom no one was able to counter against. One way to adapt to that system is to bring Spanish players who are capable to adapt our system to theirs. Im sure that Clev will end up a much better player if he's partnered by Ander and Martinez rather then Jones/Ando and Park.
 
acnumber9 said:
You don't have to have an 'agenda' to have doubts over a player. Certainly no more than anyone who has the opposite opinion.
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an opposite opinion that is clearly not well founded. He has been excellent for us whenevr he played..until yesterday when he was played out of position in an overall poor team display.

Cleverly is suddenly not ordinary. The team that is being built is being built around the likes of Rooney, Cleverly, Jones and Smalling.

..and finally I do think Fergie knows what he is talking about when he says Cleverly is a very special player.
 
Red Dreams said:
an opposite opinion that is clearly not well founded. He has been excellent for us whenevr he played..until yesterday when he was played out of position in an overall poor team display.

Cleverly is suddenly not ordinary. The team that is being built is being built around the likes of Rooney, Cleverly, Jones and Smalling.

..and finally I do think Fergie knows what he is talking about when he says Cleverly is a very special player.
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In your opinion. Remember that. I'll wait until I've seen a little more of him thanks.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bizarre? In his career as a professional footballer so far, he's started more games out wide than he has in the centre.
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For us this season, though, he has started more games in the centre than out wide. It was a bizarre tactical decision to suddenly put him on the wing, and put a player we have been playing on the wing for the majority of his career with us (Park), in the centre.
 
Last night he looked exactly what he is, a young player with very little big match experience who has been injured for months.

On a side note I think he's gotten his new hairstyle so gambit can squint at the Tv and pretend we've signed Hamsik.
 
There are easier games to come back into. I think it's madness to even think he stood much of a chance. They were superior. You have to give them credit. Toms played better but we were average across the pitch and that's being kind. These type of experiences can't hurt him and I wouldn't worry about it so much. Their midfield have everything. They're a well drilled unit. It says more about the quality of the team or performance then the quality of any individual.
 
I don't think it's fair to judge him on the recent matches in the Europa league. He's hardly played any football over the last 6 months.
 
Why can't people spell his fecking name right by now? It's Cleverley.
 
This is the price that is paid when a young player get so overhyped at the start of his United career.A bad match and it's the complete opposite.Where's the middle ground ?
 
kouroux said:
This is the price that is paid when a young player get so overhyped at the start of his United career.A bad match and it's the complete opposite.Where's the middle ground ?
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Again, which people have went from one extreme to the other?
 
kouroux said:
This is the price that is paid when a young player get so overhyped at the start of his United career.A bad match and it's the complete opposite.Where's the middle ground ?
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You. I like you.

"He's going to be our next 30 million pound player"...after 8 appearances for United. Overhyping Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
 
acnumber9 said:
Again, which people have went from one extreme to the other?
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There's been many.I'm not gonna do a "Brwned" and copy/paste posts from posters in order to confront them later.I don't have the energy for it nor to search for it.
There's also been many calls for him to be a starter in the England team for the Euro2012.If he has been playing regular football I'd understand but so far we have yet to consistently watch him play for United.
 
kouroux said:
There's been many.I'm not gonna do a "Brwned" and copy/paste posts from posters in order to confront them later.I don't have the energy for it nor to search for it.
There's also been many calls for him to be a starter in the England team for the Euro2012.If he has been playing regular football I'd understand but so far we have yet to consistently watch him play for United.
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All you have to do is give one example of one person who said he's amazing, should be playing England etc and is now saying he's shit. If you're going to claim it's happened at least back it up.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I don't get this impatience people have with young players. They are either too eager to get rid when their development is slow or too eager to hype when it looks like its going well.
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Agreed.

But isn't that just part of the fickle nature of fans at this moment in time?
 
I've always maintained that although clevs start was good it wasn't as good as being made out, not just him but the team as a whole. What it was, was very promising. He's a premier league player no doubt and currently a good squad player to have but he's got a lot to learn. Unfortunately for him like ando he's missed out on a lot of football and therefore experience which is the main thing at this time.

There was a lot of premature people saying he's essential to the team and a cert for England etc, it wasn't a majority just a few, but he needs experience. There seems to be a view that with these young players they have to play very game or they won't develop and I don't think that's true.

I think we should sign another midfielder, someone established, and then Next season look to use clevs as a squad player where he can learn without having to have too much pressure on him. If he stays fit he'll get plenty of games. Hopefully then at the end of the season he can be in a position to really push for A first 11 spot, rather than just being thrust in there. Ideally he should have learnt enough that we can let scholes retire again and then we'll have a core of at least 3 and hopefully 4 if fletch comes back quality midfielders who have a variety of strengths, experience in giggs and then have Pogba who'll hopefully be starting to knock on the door to.
 
I didn't say nobody posted it.Look at ASH G's post.I'm not the only who's spotted how Cleverley was over praised to the point of certain posters claiming he should start for England.
What would I possibly gain from imagining what the caftards said ?
 
kouroux said:
I didn't say nobody posted it.Look at ASH G's post.I'm not the only who's spotted how Cleverley was over praised to the point of certain posters claiming he should start for England.
What would I possibly gain from imagining what the caftards said ?
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Yes but did Ash G think differently before. Your posts suggests that people have changed their mind from one extreme to another whereas the reality seems to be that some hold one view at one extreme, some hold the middle ground and others are at the other end. Give me an example of specific posters who have actually gone from one extreme to the other.
 
People are welcome to go through my posts if they want but I've always said I don't think the start that clev was as good or as essential as some said. Some of them were in the newbs so I dunno if you're able to view them but I'm sure one of the other ppl promoted like theon can vouch.

But it's not really an issue. At the end of the day I think we all accept that whilst he clearly has talent he needs time. If he had played more games this season then he'd be in a much better position for next season, unfortunately he hasn't and he's effectively lost out on a season of football. If we get another quality midfielder then we can give clev time to develop and a safety net not just for him but us to. As I said if all goes well hopefully by the end of next season he's really pushing for a first 11 spot.
 
It does get a bit annoying when say, Poster A hypes clev to the extreme (before the game at athletic), and poster C who has been waiting for clev to prov himself chimes in after the game with he's lacking experience and so on and now the two get bunched together as the same poster. Happens a lot on the caf.
 
ecantona7 said:
It does get a bit annoying when say, Poster A hypes clev to the extreme (before the game at athletic), and poster C who has been waiting for clev to prov himself chimes in after the game with he's lacking experience and so on and now the two get bunched together as the same poster. Happens a lot on the caf.
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That is the story of the Caf, and I agree, it is extremely annoying.
 
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